Originally posted by Stoic
It would be a fallacy if it was ever stated that the Hulk had some limit or cap. Other than that opinions are just that.
You can't assume because a limit hasn't been shown that one doesn't exist.
Otherwise every argument would just devolve in to "Well... Well Hulk will just get stronger!" and a bunch of people going "Nuh-Uh."
Originally posted by -Pr-
You can't assume because a limit hasn't been shown that one doesn't exist.Otherwise every argument would just devolve in to "Well... Well Hulk will just get stronger!" and a bunch of people going "Nuh-Uh."
Again until one has been reached I will continue to assume that one does not exist. Besides the Beyonder said on panel that the Hulk was an infinite power. This alone supports the idea that he does not have a limit. Besides, he would not have to have limitless strength to wreck these women.
Originally posted by Stoic
Again until one has been reached I will continue to assume that one does not exist. Besides the Beyonder said on panel that the Hulk was an infinite power. This alone supports the idea that he does not have a limit. Besides, he would not have to have limitless strength to wreck these women.
I really don't see how that's practical. 😬
Originally posted by -Pr-
You can't assume because a limit hasn't been shown that one doesn't exist.Otherwise every argument would just devolve in to "Well... Well Hulk will just get stronger!" and a bunch of people going "Nuh-Uh."
and you say you aren't biased against the character. lol.
Originally posted by janus77
singularly absurd turn of logic.
So, because the feat wasn't stated to be the upper limit of his powers, we must assume it was? because otherwise people might reasonably say, that he could grow stronger yet?and you say you aren't biased against the character. lol.
I never said you have to assume that it was the upper-limit of his powers.
I'm not. You're just assuming things about my post that aren't true.
Though it's rich, coming from the guy who likes to pretend every Surfer thread is a tourney match and that the guy fights however he likes. 😬
Originally posted by -Pr-
I really don't see how that's practical. 😬
Well like I said until a limit has been reached it will still be "the madder he gets.. yadda" Not liking the idea isn't my call but what has been written. Actually I believe that the writers have been steering away from rage issues and pointing more at how much adrenaline he has within him, and his ability to tap into this mysterious extradimension power source.
Originally posted by janus77
you mean you really don't want to accept on-panel depictions of the character, narrations about the character and statements by abstracts and characters of superior scale, saying that Hulk's powers are infinite.
So you want to go in to every thread the Hulk is in, where physical combat is involved, and just say "Nope, Hulk gets stronger"? Really?
What point would there be in that?
Originally posted by Stoic
Well like I said until a limit has been reached it will still be "the madder he gets.. yadda" Not liking the idea isn't my call but what has been written. Actually I believe that the writers have been steering away from rage issues and pointing more at how much adrenaline he has within him, and his ability to tap into this mysterious extradimension power source.
And that's fine, but there's a point where we start to approach the "He'd punch out Galactus" silliness, which is what I'm trying to avoid here.
Originally posted by -Pr-
I never said you have to assume that it was the upper-limit of his powers.I'm not. You're just assuming things about my post that aren't true.
Though it's rich, coming from the guy who likes to pretend every Surfer thread is a tourney match and that the guy fights however he likes. 😬
and as for Surfer, I preface most of my posts about him with comments outlining how he is likely to fight (job) and how he can fight (high-feats). not my fault Marvel pretty much gave him every power in the book and then some.
Originally posted by janus77
you imply it.and as for Surfer, I preface most of my posts about him with comments outlining how he is likely to fight (job) and how he can fight (high-feats). not my fault Marvel pretty much gave him every power in the book and then some.
No, i didn't imply it, actually. If you wanted me to clarify, you could have just asked.
Yet you still try to make him act the way you want him to while downplaying other characters, and you want to accuse me of bias?
Originally posted by -Pr-
So you want to go in to every thread the Hulk is in, where physical combat is involved, and just say "Nope, Hulk gets stronger"? Really?What point would there be in that?
how many flash threads don't end with "speedkills"? we accept that certain characters have an unhinged nature to their powers. how many threads with Reed /w prep end as a stomp for him?
you are special pleading here, because the character is basically broken, you wish us to assume he is at less than optimum in battles where everybody else is meant to be operating at their best.
Originally posted by -Pr-
No, i didn't imply it, actually. If you wanted me to clarify, you could have just asked.Yet you still try to make him act the way you want him to while downplaying other characters, and you want to accuse me of bias?
And I don't down play other characters when it comes to them vs Surfer, I just write posts that contain both a jobbing version and a non-jobbing version. Again, this is a character that Marvel have given every power in the book to... He invites imaginative usage of his powers.
Originally posted by janus77
the point would be to be faithful to the character Marvel are writing and selling, rather than the character you would like him to be.how many flash threads don't end with "speedkills"? we accept that certain characters have an unhinged nature to their powers. how many threads with Reed /w prep end as a stomp for him?
you are special pleading here, because the character is basically broken, you wish us to assume he is at less than optimum in battles where everybody else is meant to be operating at their best.
The problem with that, is that when it comes down to it people are still restricted to feats when they want to seriously debate.
Are you saying the Hulk should be exempt?
Originally posted by janus77
you are biased, see your desire to plead a special case when it comes to Hulk.And I don't down play other characters when it comes to them vs Surfer, I just write posts that contain both a jobbing version and a non-jobbing version. Again, this is a character that Marvel have given every power in the book to... He invites imaginative usage of his powers.
Why do you think I'm so biased against the Hulk? I'm only saying that he should be kept in line so that he can still operate on the forum.
Originally posted by -Pr-
So you want to go in to every thread the Hulk is in, where physical combat is involved, and just say "Nope, Hulk gets stronger"? Really?What point would there be in that?
And that's fine, but there's a point where we start to approach the "He'd punch out Galactus" silliness, which is what I'm trying to avoid here.
That's the veil of ignorance compounded by a sense of power hierarchy. It's like the way that people used to give Mike Tyson the auto win, but were floored when Douglas chipped him up. Galactus however has other powers outside of strength. Would I say that the Hulk could eventually outlift Galactus? Yes. Why? Because it was stated that the Hulk was an infinite power, while Galactus is merely a cosmic scavenger, fighting just to keep from fading away.
Marvel writes a lot of shit, and this includes a guy capable of creating amazing scientific artifacts not having the ability to find a power source to keep him from his dreaded hunger.
Originally posted by Stoic
That's the veil of ignorance compounded by a sense of power hierarchy. It's like the way that people used to give Mike Tyson the auto win, but were floored when Douglas chipped him up. Galactus however has other powers outside of strength. Would I say that the Hulk could eventually outlift Galactus? Yes. Why? Because it was stated that the Hulk was an infinite power, while Galactus is merely a cosmic scavenger, fighting just to keep from fading away.Marvel writes a lot of shit, and this includes a guy capable of creating amazing scientific artifacts not having the ability to find a power source to keep him from his dreaded hunger.
But that's what it leads to. If people are really going to argue that Hulk auto-wins every physical battle because he has an infinite ability to get stronger, then he becomes pretty much unusable on the forum.
Should I just ban Hulk threads as there would be no point to them?
Originally posted by -Pr-
The problem with that, is that when it comes down to it people are still restricted to feats when they want to seriously debate.Are you saying the Hulk should be exempt?
Why do you think I'm so biased against the Hulk? I'm only saying that he should be kept in line so that he can still operate on the forum.
Madder = stronger is a basic core element of the character. HOTM was just a demonstration of a higher level of output, not a limit.
So to say that Hulk's HOTM feat can be exceeded by the character, because he can get angrier (he was only fighting Betty, in an arena where nobody he really loathed was present) and therefore stronger is somehow illogical?
We debate from character feats, we use them to establish boundaries, when they are applicable for that purpose, or use them to establish a basic ballpark for their abilities. HOTM was an example of the later, as it neither implied nor stated Hulk was tapping out at that level.
That is why I say it is special pleading to take a feat that merely demonstrates - yet again - his ballpark, and say that instead it is a limit.
Originally posted by janus77
We're arguing about WBH, the feat and the character and the nature of the character as established by Marvel.Madder = stronger is a basic core element of the character. HOTM was just a demonstration of a higher level of output, not a limit.
So to say that Hulk's HOTM feat can be exceeded by the character, because he can get angrier (he was only fighting Betty, in an arena where nobody he really loathed was present) and therefore stronger is somehow illogical?
We debate from character feats, we use them to establish boundaries, when they are applicable for that purpose, or use them to establish a basic ballpark for their abilities. HOTM was an example of the later, as it neither implied nor stated Hulk was tapping out at that level.
That is why I say it is special pleading to take a feat that merely demonstrates - yet again - his ballpark, and say that instead it is a limit.
I never said, not once, that HOTM was Hulk's limit, or tried to portray it as such.
Please don't jump to conclusions.
Originally posted by -Pr-
But that's what it leads to. If people are really going to argue that Hulk auto-wins every physical battle because he has an infinite ability to get stronger, then he becomes pretty much unusable on the forum.Should I just ban Hulk threads as there would be no point to them?
Of course not, there is always context to him ever going outside of the bounds that writers deem safe in order to keep his battles competitive. There are as you know other things and powers in fiction that confound strength alone. If you banned the Hulk from threads, you would also need to ban the Flash, Amazo, the Fury, and other deus ex types. Superman may fall into this power band as well when he decides to be argued against after a lengthy sun dip.