Dooku vs Maul

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes they do. He dominated Kenobi with the Force twice. The end of the fight we saw Kenobi knocked out due to Maul's Force Wave.

Your logic makes no sense. By your reasoning there's no proof Dooku is better with the Force than Kenobi.

And the reason why he didn't use a force push against maul was because he weasn't trying to run away.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And WTF do you mean we've not seen a comparison between the 2??

Originally posted by mnat801
When I say comparison, I mean comparing maul's power in the force against obi wan's power with the force. Your example only shows maul's force ability.

facepalm

He force levitated Obi-Wan who couldn't do a damn thing to stop him. He then knocked Obi-Wan out with a massive Force Wave, the likes of which Obi-Wan has never displayed.

He then went on to move a huge craft again the likes of which Obi-Wan has never even come close to in 4 movies, countless episodes of the CW plus all his showings in comics, novels e.t.c.

Originally posted by mnat801
If that was true, that would mean that you believe kenobi can't force push maul and knock him out (which he can because hes done that to grevious once in TCW and once in ROTS, and grevious would be heavier than maul) and that he can't force push a ship off a cliff. As far as i'm concerned, since we havn't yet seen kenobi attempt a feat like that doesn't automatically mean he can't do it.

And the reason why he didn't use a force push against maul was because he weasn't trying to run away.

I'm beginning to understand why Lucien has given up on you.

Grievous does not have the force. So that comparison is retarded. Plenty of Jedi Masters have put Grievous down with the Force.

If your comparing Grievous "weight" then you should have the common sense to realize that the weight of the Jedi Craft Maul pulled was >>>>>>> Grievous's weight.

Obi-Wan has never shown the ability to even push a ship that size an inch, let alone pull it off a cliff as fast as Maul did.

And no Obi-Wan can not knock Maul out with a force push (except for in your head).

By this argument of yours you could argue Obi-Wan's as good as Dooku in the Force, because we never saw what would happen if Obi-Wan tried to force push or force choke Dooku.

Your seriously grasping at straws here so I urge you to stop this point right now if you ever expect to be taken seriously on these boards.

[QUOTE=14048892]Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kenobi has never displayed a feat of TK mastery as Maul did in the first episode...and Maul ragdolled him during this episode.

That is correct. Which makes sense considering Mace was well into his 50s by the time of ROTS. Meaning he's been a Jedi Master for about 20 years. [/QUOT

Dooku probably defeated Mace when he was practicing Juyo.
Vaapad is a very "touchy" subject for Mace,given that Dooku,further influenced him to give in to
the dark side completely (Sora Bulq).

I'm positve that he tested Vaapad against the other styles and there Masters.

TK Mastery between Maul Kenobi and Dooku that's something I need more proof to see.
Remember Yoda taught Dooku. Size matters not. Maul did move,dragged a ship to the edge
I'm still watching the episode. Sidious drilled this into Maul.

No matter how you look at it,Dooku will be overwhelmed by Maul's variant of Juyo I'm sorry
to say. Dooku will try and use Force attacks,difference is Juyo and Vaapad also uses Force attacks also.

Kenobi will either feign the defensive long enough to counter either Maul or Dooku if he can stay
focused. Or he will find a weakness in there attacks. Either way he's a strategist,he'll find a way to survive..

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
facepalm

He force levitated Obi-Wan who couldn't do a damn thing to stop him. He then knocked Obi-Wan out with a massive Force Wave, the likes of which Obi-Wan has never displayed.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He then went on to move a huge craft again the likes of which Obi-Wan has never even come close to in 4 movies, countless episodes of the CW plus all his showings in comics, novels e.t.c.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm beginning to understand why Lucien has given up on you.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Grievous does not have the force. So that comparison is retarded. Plenty of Jedi Masters have put Grievous down with the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If your comparing Grievous "weight" then you should have the common sense to realize that the weight of the Jedi Craft Maul pulled was >>>>>>> Grievous's weight.

Obi-Wan has never shown the ability to even push a ship that size an inch, let alone pull it off a cliff as fast as Maul did.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And no Obi-Wan can not knock Maul out with a force push (except for in your head).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
By this argument of yours you could argue Obi-Wan's as good as Dooku in the Force, because we never saw what would happen if Obi-Wan tried to force push or force choke Dooku.

Your seriously grasping at straws here so I urge you to stop this point right now if you ever expect to be taken seriously on these boards.

Yeah whatever Mr. "I'm right and your wrong".

Originally posted by mnat801

Oh gosh, your not getting the point im trying to make. I KNOW that's what maul did. And obi wan HAS displayed that twice, against grevious. Go watch ROTS and TCW season 3 ep 2 again.

Just stop this crap.

What's Grievous got to do with anything? So what? Ashoka Force pushes Droids, does that mean she's a match for Maul in the Force?!

And by the way watch Maul's force push in slow motion. It was a Force Wave that smashed a load of rock with it. Kenobi's never displayed any such thing.

Originally posted by mnat801
That's not the point though. Just because we havn't seen obi wan do that feat doesn't automatically mean he can't. There just really hasn't been a situation where he needed to tip a ship off the edge of a cliff. So because of this, no one can claim that he can do such a thing.

Yeah excellent theory. So I guess just because we've never seen Obi-Wan move a Star Destroyer doesn't mean he can't!

LOL! Obi-Wan = Galen Marek in the Force according to you 👆

And Watch Maul's force push in slow motion. It was a Force Wave that smashed a load of rock with it. Kenobi's never displayed any such thing.

Originally posted by mnat801
Oh is that right.

It doesn't matter if he doesn't have the force! I'm not comparing grevious and obi wan, im just saying how what maul did to obi wan is the same thing that obi wan does to grevious! Whether grevious has the force is irrelevant.

Yeah and Ashoka does the same thing to droids! So what? Stop being overly biased.

And btw Watch Maul's force push in slow motion. It was a Force Wave that smashed a load of rock with it. Kenobi's never displayed any such thing.

Originally posted by mnat801
EXACTLY. For the last time, ill say to you again that WE HAVN'T SEEN OBI WAN DO IT. So stop going to the conclusion that maul is more powerful in the force! Until we see obi wan attempt to do these feats can it be compared.

I didn't come to the conclusion Maul is more powerful in the Force. It was clearly shown to us in the show with Maul manhandling Kenobi twice with the Force. Stop this idiotic argument.

And btw Watch Maul's force push in slow motion. It was a Force Wave that smashed a load of rock with it. Kenobi's never displayed any such thing.

Originally posted by mnat801
No, it's only in your imagination that obi wan can't knock maul out with a force push. You have no evidence to prove otherwise.

Your making the claim. So the Onus of proof is on you. Good luck with proving that nonsense.

Originally posted by mnat801
No, by my argument, we CANNOT argue that Obi-Wan's as good as Dooku in the force. Exactly like how by my argument, we CANNOT argue that maul is better than obi wan in the force.

Yeah whatever Mr. "I'm right and your wrong".

I don't even think your capable of being right!

According to your idiotic argument anyone can claim Obi-Wan could knock Dooku out with the Force. We just HAVEN'T SEEN IT!

Just stop this s***. Everyone, and I mean Everyone whether they like Maul or Hate him, can see Maul is clearly far far superior to Obi-Wan in the Force.

The only place where that's not true is IN YOUR HEAD!

Damn son, if you are really that thick headed then I just don't know what to say.

Yes, mnat801 has posted some shit that just doesn't make any sense, but to claim that someone CAN'T do something simply because we haven't seem them do it is just... ignorant to say the least. You can say that there is no evidence that he could do that (which would be true at this point). But you cannot correctly say that he CANNOT.

Hell, even if he tried and failed on one occasion would still rule out with all certainty that he could not do it. It would simply indicate that he didn't do it in that situation at that time.

It's really simple DP. The way you twist shit is getting old. BTW - you're statement "LOL! Obi-Wan = Galen Marek in the Force according to you" was a strawman argument. He never said that.

If you're going to debate, then at least stick to the accepted rules of debate and debate logic... something you clearly fail at.

Just because Nihilus was never shown to have the ability revive himself...DOESN'T MEAN HE CAN'T! I like that logic.

This is not the highest level of discourse that we've ever seen.

Might I suggest that you dial it back, or at least constrain yourselves to haiku, if you really must engage in pitiful slapfights.

Just because I haven't hit 5 three pointers in a row doesn't mean I can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that I can.

Just because NASA hasn't sent men/women to Mars doesn't mean that they can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that they can.

Just because we haven't kicked the hell out of Iran or North Korea doesn't mean we can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that we can.

Just because Jay Cutler hasn't thrown 5 TDs in one game doesn't mean he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

Just because Kenobi hasn't pulled a ship off of the side of a cliff doesn't mean that he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

...And this

LOL! Obi-Wan = Galen Marek in the Force according to you

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Damn son, if you are really that thick headed then I just don't know what to say.

Yes, mnat801 has posted some shit that just doesn't make any sense, but to claim that someone CAN'T do something simply because we haven't seem them do it is just... ignorant to say the least. You can say that there is no evidence that he could do that (which would be true at this point). But you cannot correctly say that he CANNOT.

Hell, even if he tried and failed on one occasion would still rule out with all certainty that he could not do it. It would simply indicate that he didn't do it in that situation at that time.

It's really simple DP. The way you twist shit is getting old. BTW - you're statement "LOL! Obi-Wan = Galen Marek in the Force according to you" was a strawman argument. He never said that.

If you're going to debate, then at least stick to the accepted rules of debate and debate logic... something you clearly fail at.

If you read the whole arguement then you would know that it's not just about me saying "If he hasn't done it he can't." mnat801 has taken the stance that Obi-Wan CAN DO THOSE things with absolutely nothing pointing in that direction:

Originally posted by mnat801

No, it's only in your imagination that obi wan can't knock maul out with a force push. You have no evidence to prove otherwise.

I mean Maul clearly handled Obi-Wan with the Force, and Obi-Wan couldn't do a thing to stop him. It's beyond me how he can't see that.

And it's not just this thread. I'm getting tired of his baseless arguments in every thread.

And yes he didn't say Obi-Wan equals Galen in the Force. But by his assumptions and line of arguing, we could just as easily reach that conclusion. Or even that Obi-Wan could possibly Force Choke Dooku the way Dooku did to him, "we just didn't see him try."

And I'm also getting tired of your constant attacks and criticisms on my arguments JT. You've stated yourself here "Yes, mnat801 has posted some shit that just doesn't make any sense," and yet you've only posted to be critical of my reply.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Just because I haven't hit 5 three pointers in a row doesn't mean I can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that I can.

Just because NASA hasn't sent men/women to Mars doesn't mean that they can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that they can.

Just because we haven't kicked the hell out of Iran or North Korea doesn't mean we can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that we can.

Just because Jay Cutler hasn't thrown 5 TDs in one game doesn't mean he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

And this all works. If there's no evidence to suggest we can do anything even close to that.

(But in kicking the crap out of Iraq there obviously is plenty of evidence the U.S can do that. So that one doesn't work at all.)

I've not run in a long time, but it would be absolutely Insane to suddenly start claiming there's no proof someone who can run a mile in less than 4 minutes is faster than me.

There clearly is proof that he is faster than me. If anyone wanted to claim otherwise I would at least have to do something which suggests I might be even close to being as fast as he is.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Just because Kenobi hasn't pulled a ship off of the side of a cliff doesn't mean that he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

But we don't just suddenly start claiming he can or may be able to with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Otherwise we can likewise say this:

Just because Obi-Wan has never moved a Star Destroyer doesn't mean he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

If you don't see how faulty this line of argument is then I can't help you.

However I did lose a bit in my response to mnat801. So I apologize to him for that.

No, I agree with Lord Lucien. Anakin is without a doubt the superior warrior. And mnat801 is hard to get through to. I understand the frustration as far as that goes. My issue is with how you've twisted things and the lack of logic in claiming one cannot do something simply because they have yet to be observed doing it... You've made that claim quite a bit in other threads as well. It gets old... quick. I haven't had to deal w/ mnat801 in a debate, so my response is geared towards you for that reason. You're very hard to reason with you bloody brit. I could tell you that snow is normally white and you'd find a way to argue that it's not. Very annoying. BTW - this is, as far as I can remember, the first time I've attacked one of your posts.

Also, I didn't say Iraq, I said Iran and North Korea.

And regarding this:

But we don't just suddenly start claiming he can or may be able to with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Otherwise we can likewise say this:

Just because Obi-Wan has never moved a Star Destroyer doesn't mean he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

If you don't see how faulty this line of argument is then I can't help you.

But we don't say he CAN'T either. We say that the evidence isn't there to support that claim. BIG DIFFERENCE.

You're missing the fundamental point here. And you are LOST!

And Maul wins. Dooku is far too powerful in the Force for Maul to compete with, especially given his Makashi mastery.

Maul might be above Dooku at least in sabers. But why would Sidious exchange clever and experienced human that excels in politics as well as warfare and has vast resources available for a revenge driven dumb?

Originally posted by Arhael
Maul might be above Dooku at least in sabers.

No. Nuh-uh.

Originally posted by Arhael
Maul might be above Dooku at least in sabers. But why would Sidious exchange clever and experienced human that excels in politics as well as warfare and has vast resources available for a revenge driven dumb?

I Concur with Arhael.
Why would he exchange Maul for Dooku?
(1) Maul still have uses to his plans while Dooku is still his apprentice.
(2)Dooku is his proxy,the public face his uses and resources speak
for themselves.

Unless Sidious has a way to use Maul and his brother against the Jedi and The Separatists.
Kinda like a war on 3 different fronts to make the darkside stronger and further cloud the Jedi's
vision.

Maul is still learning so I wouldn't count him out,yet. he is a pawn.
He still have uses in the Grand Plan.

Originally posted by Arhael
Maul might be above Dooku at least in sabers. But why would Sidious exchange clever and experienced human that excels in politics as well as warfare and has vast resources available for a revenge driven dumb?

No way. Dooku is hailed as a god with the saber multiple times by multiple people including Yoda and Mace.

Vader lost his full potential BC of his Cyborg parts
Then Maul would probably lost the same potential due to his Cyborg parts.
Right? Meaning they both have half of their full power.

IN a Battle of Force Powers Dooku
Sabers Maul
IF the CW actually let them battle(I'm still sorry to say this )
Greivous will be somewhere close by and interfere
If the Count needs him to.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No way. Dooku is hailed as a god with the saber multiple times by multiple people including Yoda and Mace.

What's up Mizukage Yoda!!!!!