Dooku vs Maul

Started by Arhael25 pages

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No way. Dooku is hailed as a god with the saber multiple times by multiple people including Yoda and Mace.

Dooku is one of the best Makashi practitioners.
Maul is one of the best Juyo practitioners.
Both achieved highest level in their preferred style, so their pure saber skill should be more or less even depending on their natural capabilities and talents.
On top of that Maul is expert in unarmed combat, which gives him an edge. And he happened to demonstrate that edge by disarming Opress with wrist lock. Dooku seems to be weak in terms of unarmed combat as Anakin demonstrated it by winning him with a kick in CW and grappling technique in RotS. Maul, also, became more powerful since PM and demonstrated that by Force handling Kenobi, so I don't think Dooku would have any advantage in Force either.

There is no reason to say "No way", it's all subject to interpretation and opinions.

Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku is one of the best Makashi practitioners.
Maul is one of the best Juyo practitioners.
Both achieved highest level in their preferred style, so their pure saber skill should be more or less even depending on their natural capabilities and talents.
On top of that Maul is expert in unarmed combat, which gives him an edge. And he happened to demonstrate that edge by disarming Opress with wrist lock. Dooku seems to be weak in terms of unarmed combat as Anakin demonstrated it by winning him with a kick in CW and grappling technique in RotS. Maul, also, became more powerful since PM and demonstrated that by Force handling Kenobi, so I don't think Dooku would have any advantage in Force either.

There is no reason to say "No way", it's all subject to interpretation and opinions.

Nobody has answered the one factor that might tip the scale to Dooku.
Can Maul deflect Force Lightning? I love Maul huge fan. But can he do it?

Did Sidious go that far to teach him how? I say No BC Sidious doesn't share his secrets with
anyone

Maul's lower half is Vulnerable to force lightning.
Dooku is weak to unarmed combat
No debate to that good call on the Arhael.

He'll have to face that possibility one day
And may the Force help him Sidious's Force Lightning?

Force Lighting is a factor in this duel and Dooku will use it .

Originally posted by Arhael
[B]Dooku is one of the best Makashi practitioners.
Maul is one of the best Juyo practitioners.

Perhaps, but Dooku before he even began his Sith training was able to match a Mace Windu who mastered Vaapad.


Both achieved highest level in their preferred style, so their pure saber skill should be more or less even depending on their natural capabilities and talents.

Except Dooku was always being considered as a replacement for Maul as early as Plagueis.

On top of that Maul is expert in unarmed combat, which gives him an edge. And he happened to demonstrate that edge by disarming Opress with wrist lock. Dooku seems to be weak in terms of unarmed combat as Anakin demonstrated it by winning him with a kick in CW and grappling technique in RotS. Maul, also, became more powerful since PM and demonstrated that by Force handling Kenobi, so I don't think Dooku would have any advantage in Force either.

Except Anakin automatically has the advantage in unarmed combat because he has a mechanical arm and is likely the strongest duelist in the entire Jedi Order (physically). Everytime Dooku gets put on his ass by Skywalker it's because he's taking him lightly. On Naboo for example the whole fight he is fighting with one arm behind his back.


There is no reason to say "No way", it's all subject to interpretation and opinions.

Dooku has always been noted for his power even by Palpatine in Plagueis. His swordsmanship is legendary. Maul has never been hyped as a swordsman.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
My issue is with how you've twisted things and the lack of logic in claiming one cannot do something simply because they have yet to be observed doing it... You've made that claim quite a bit in other threads as well. It gets old... quick. I haven't had to deal w/ mnat801 in a debate, so my response is geared towards you for that reason. You're very hard to reason with you bloody brit.

I haven't twisted anything. You know what my overall point is and it was a completely valid one. And why are Brits bloody? That's just hate talk, YOU Stuck up your own ass American.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
I could tell you that snow is normally white and you'd find a way to argue that it's not. Very annoying.

Whatever.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Also, I didn't say Iraq, I said Iran and North Korea.

There's plenty of evidence the US can take Iran at least.

But if I said it the other way around (which is more relevant to the discussion at hand) that Iran can't take the US because they've not shown they can do anything close to that. Would you really come and start arguing against that line of logic?

I doubt you would.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
But we don't say he CAN'T either. We say that the evidence isn't there to support that claim. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Right so basically you agree, you just didn't like my choice of words. That's quite a petty thing to start randomly attacking JT. All you had to say was DP you should word that differently.

Instead your playing with words and gone on some random rant.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
And Maul wins. Dooku is far too powerful in the Force for Maul to compete with,

Oh this is great considering what you've just attacked me on! Brilliant!

According to you own logic that's not necessarily true or fact AT ALL!

Just because Maul hasn't displayed the Power in the Force that Dooku has doesn't mean that he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

You Sir are officially OWNED!

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Maul has never been hyped as a swordsman.

That's not true at all.

His skills as a swordsman and close combat warrior were said to be unparalleled by Sidious at least. We also know his combat skills were greater than Anoon Bondara's whose Skills with a Lightsaber were quoted to be second to none.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I haven't twisted anything. You know what my overall point is and it was a completely valid one. And why are Brits bloody? That's just hate talk, YOU Stuck up your own ass American.

Whatever.

There's plenty of evidence the US can take Iran at least.

But if I said it the other way around (which is more relevant to the discussion at hand) that Iran can't take the US because they've not shown they can do anything close to that. Would you really come and start arguing against that line of logic?

I doubt you would.

Right so basically you agree, you just didn't like my choice of words. That's quite a petty thing to start randomly attacking JT. All you had to say was DP you should word that differently.

Instead your playing with words and gone on some random rant.

Oh this is great considering what you've just attacked me on! Brilliant!

According to you own logic that's not necessarily true or fact AT ALL!

[b]Just because Maul hasn't displayed the Power in the Force that Dooku has doesn't mean that he can't. It simply means that there is no evidence that he can.

You Sir are officially OWNED! [/B]

1 -LMAO!

2- Yeah whatever.

3- As far as Iran goes? Hell no I wouldn't... as an American anyway. But as a neutral party, one cannot say they CAN'T... only that they don't see how they can or that there is no evidence to indicate such. Again you fail.

4- I've taken that route with you already.

5- And you sir, fail miserably at detecting sarcasm!

Perhaps, but Dooku before he even began his Sith training was able to match a Mace Windu who mastered Vaapad.
You mean pre-Vaapad Windu? And how it matters anyway? Because years later Windu defeated Sidious? With same success I can say that Maul pawns Dooku because he stomped Opress, which disarmed Dooku with single lightsaber strike. While ABC logic helps to establish relative power and skill of characters, in this specific case it is better to avoid it.

Except Dooku was always being considered as a replacement for Maul as early as Plagueis.
Obviously clever strategist with vast resources available and knowledge of Jedi inside out is much better than brainless assassin. Plagueis novel works only in Maul's favour. Dooku doesn't demonstrate there any combat feats and is not even evaluated in terms of combat, while Sidious prizes Maul's combat performance and Plagueis is surprised by his speed.

Except Anakin automatically has the advantage in unarmed combat because he has a mechanical arm and is likely the strongest duelist in the entire Jedi Order (physically).
Except strength plays little factor in unarmed combat and wasn't the reason why Anakin won both fights.

Everytime Dooku gets put on his ass by Skywalker it's because he's taking him lightly.
On Naboo for example the whole fight he is fighting with one arm behind his back.
Lol. that's what Makashi style is about. Makashi is one handed style. It lacks kinetic energy because one hand is weaker than two but has greater mobility because you can move lightsaber with one hand much more freely.

YouTube video
Acording to your logic the guy with Rapier must be taking his opponent lightly as well. 😄

Anakin is master in his own style, so Dooku doesn't have much edge in combat skill. In CW he was Forced to go full defense and he did his best to survive.

Sorry but it is only your opinion that Dooku took Anakin lightly based on your own interpretation.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to prove that Maul is above Dooku. It doesn't matter. CW showed that Maul is much more powerful and skilled than people actually thought him to be, that's it.

Dooku has always been noted for his power even by Palpatine in Plagueis. His swordsmanship is legendary. Maul has never been hyped as a swordsman.
It's unfair to judge combat performance by hype. Maul's combat performance and speed was hyped only by Sidious and Plagueis. Dooku was hyped by thousands Jedi most of which can't do shit in combat.

Originally posted by Arhael
You mean pre-Vaapad Windu? And how it matters anyway? Because years later Windu defeated Sidious? With same success I can say that Maul pawns Dooku because he stomped Opress, which disarmed Dooku with single lightsaber strike. While ABC logic helps to establish relative power and skill of characters, in this specific case it is better to avoid it.

Obviously clever strategist with vast resources available and knowledge of Jedi inside out is much better than brainless assassin. Plagueis novel works only in Maul's favour. Dooku doesn't demonstrate there any combat feats and is not even evaluated in terms of combat, while Sidious prizes Maul's combat performance and Plagueis is surprised by his speed.

Except strength plays little factor in unarmed combat and wasn't the reason why Anakin won both fights.

Lol. that's what Makashi style is about. Makashi is one handed style. It lacks kinetic energy because one hand is weaker than two but has greater mobility because you can move lightsaber with one hand much more freely.

YouTube video
Acording to your logic the guy with Rapier must be taking his opponent lightly as well. 😄

Anakin is master in his own style, so Dooku doesn't have much edge in combat skill. In CW he was Forced to go full defense and he did his best to survive.

Sorry but it is only your opinion that Dooku took Anakin lightly based on your own interpretation.

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to prove that Maul is above Dooku. It doesn't matter. CW showed that Maul is much more powerful and skilled than people actually thought him to be, that's it.

It's unfair to judge combat performance by hype. Maul's combat performance and speed was hyped only by Sidious and Plagueis. Dooku was hyped by thousands Jedi most of which can't do shit in combat.

Wow,I agree. everything you said times 2.
It's just too many possibilities !!
Let's just hope that the CW gives us what we ask for.
It would be great to see this duel.

Originally posted by Arhael

Lol. that's what Makashi style is about. Makashi is one handed style. It lacks kinetic energy because one hand is weaker than two but has greater mobility because you can move lightsaber with one hand much more freely.

YouTube video
Acording to your logic the guy with Rapier must be taking his opponent lightly as well. 😄

👆

And the extra benefit to Dooku in fencing like that is he can use the other hand to attack Skywalker with the Force.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
👆

And the extra benefit to Dooku in fencing like that is he can use the other hand to attack Skywalker with the Force.

Good point Darth Power,he can use the Force to attack with his free hand,
And no Mitz Yoda.

Mace and Yoda don't hail Dooku as some sort of god.

Actually he uses TK and Force lightning with his free hand. 😆

Originally posted by Arhael
You mean pre-Vaapad Windu? And how it matters anyway? Because years later Windu defeated Sidious? With same success I can say that Maul pawns Dooku because he stomped Opress, which disarmed Dooku with single lightsaber strike. While ABC logic helps to establish relative power and skill of characters, in this specific case it is better to avoid it.

No Vaapad was a completed form by the time of TPM. No that doesn't make any sense considering Form II is weak against direct assaults like that anyway.


Obviously clever strategist with vast resources available and knowledge of Jedi inside out is much better than brainless assassin. Plagueis novel works only in Maul's favour. Dooku doesn't demonstrate there any combat feats and is not even evaluated in terms of combat, while Sidious prizes Maul's combat performance and Plagueis is surprised by his speed.

Dooku is in a different league swordsmanship wise though. Maul has never displayed the raw talent Dooku has. Dooku has taken on and defeated more teams of duelists than any other character in the mythos.


Except strength plays little factor in unarmed combat and wasn't the reason why Anakin won both fights.

Yes that's exactly why he did. He wore down Dooku's defenses.


Lol. that's what Makashi style is about. Makashi is one handed style. It lacks kinetic energy because one hand is weaker than two but has greater mobility because you can move lightsaber with one hand much more freely.

YouTube video
Acording to your logic the guy with Rapier must be taking his opponent lightly as well. 😄

[QUOTE]
Except we see Dooku using 2 hands for saber locks all the time when he is serious.
[QUOTE]
Anakin is master in his own style, so Dooku doesn't have much edge in combat skill. In CW he was Forced to go full defense and he did his best to survive.


By blasting Anakin across rooms with his TK? Totes only defense.

Sorry but it is only your opinion that Dooku took Anakin lightly based on your own interpretation.

Not opinion at all.
'It would have been difficult to fight the entire Jedi security force, but dealing with you will be easy.'
Obviously Anakin is not an easy foe for Tyranus. But he likes to think so.


Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to prove that Maul is above Dooku. It doesn't matter. CW showed that Maul is much more powerful and skilled than people actually thought him to be, that's it.

K then why are we even discussing this?


It's unfair to judge combat performance by hype. Maul's combat performance and speed was hyped only by Sidious and Plagueis. Dooku was hyped by thousands Jedi most of which can't do shit in combat. [/B]

"The best of all would be the strongest student, yes? Wisest? Most learned in the ways of the Force? Best of all, Dooku would be! Our greatest student! Our greatest failure."--Yoda

Dooku's performances against speedy opponents like Yoda, and duel performances against multiple foes, and him defeating Ventress and the Nightsisters while blind and drugged, lead me to believe that he could defeat Maul with moderate difficulty.

No Vaapad was a completed form by the time of TPM. No that doesn't make any sense considering Form II is weak against direct assaults like that anyway.

And? Serious fight between Windu and Dooku is possible only after AotC. In any case friendly Jedi sparrings have little weight. Agen Kolar could fight Windu evenly in sparring, yet, in real fight it took Sidious couple of swings to finish him.

In case of fight with Opress I actually will defend Dooku. He more than capable to defend against strong attacks as he demonstrated in fights with Anakin. Anakin won simply because he was far more powerful, not because of Dooku's style weakness. He simply didn't expect Opress' attack to be THAT strong and he never fought such strong opponent before, thus didn't need to invent apropriate tactics to handle him.

Dooku is in a different league swordsmanship wise though. Maul has never displayed the raw talent Dooku lcharacter in the mythos.

O yeah? Quality is more important than quantity. Maul fought Qui-Gon and Kenobi simultaniously relying on his combat skills ONLY.
In turn Dooku ALWAYS relied on offensive Force use. He handled Anakin with lightning, so he could fight Kenobi alone. He handled Opress with lightning, so he could engage Ventress alone. He handled nightsisters with lighting. And finally he handled Kenobi with Force, so he could fight Anakin alone. Dooku never fought more than one opponent without relying on Force attacks, however, Maul did.

In fight with Opress Maul used one-handed grip. Instead of blocking attacks outright, he blended with them and redirected without using much strength. Despite him being Juyo practitioner, he demonstrated perhaps the best example of refined and subtle grace of Makashi.
And on top of that he demonstrated that masterfully executed unarmed technique can overcome even Opress' strength.
Only blind will not see exceptional skill and raw tallent in Maul's combat.

Except we see Dooku using 2 hands for saber locks all the time when he is serious.

Dooku adapts different tactics for different situations and uses second hand, when he needs extra strength. Noone said he can't use Form I, when situation requires.
In any case one handed style is as good as two-handed. Proven by real life. Proven by Dooku, when fending off Kenobi and Anakin
with one hand in RotS. Proven by Luke, when fighting Lomi Plo. Proven by Caedus, when fighting Jaina. Proven by Maul, when stomping Opress. Proven by Kenobi, when right after Adi's death he used one-handed grip to defend against both brothers. Countless evidence proves your assumption completly wrong and unreasonable.


Yes that's exactly why he did. He wore down Dooku's defenses.
And how is it relevant to your statement about unarmed combat???

By blasting Anakin across rooms with his TK? Totes only defense.

He was forced to go full defence with lightsaber, that's why he started using Force attacs on first place, to survive.

Not opinion at all.
'It would have been difficult to fight the entire Jedi security force, but dealing with you will be easy.'
Obviously Anakin is not an easy foe for Tyranus. But he likes to think so.

Are you seriously trying to use a mocking statement as evidence? In that case Dooku took Yoda lightly as well because he was similarly mocking him.

K then why are we even discussing this?

Because you felt need to say my believe is wrong. I said Maul "might" be above Dooku in combat. I used word "might" to signify that I am not certain myself, not willing to prove it and it doesn't matter in general.


Dooku's performances against speedy opponents like Yoda, and duel performances against multiple foes, and him defeating Ventress and the Nightsisters while blind and drugged, lead me to believe that he could defeat Maul with moderate difficulty.

And you are entitled to believe so. My point is that both of them one or another way demonstrated exceptional combat skills and offensive Force use. My opinion is that their fight would be more or less even and outcome would depend on circumstances and luck rather than one stomping another.

Originally posted by Arhael

In fight with Opress Maul used one-handed grip. Instead of blocking attacks outright, he blended with them and redirected without using much strength. Despite him being Juyo practitioner, he demonstrated perhaps the best example of refined and subtle grace of Makashi.

Yes that was a very skilled movement. As a Juyo Master he is required to be a High Level Master of Multiple Forms.

Makashi may well be one of those forms for Maul based on that scene.

N.B. He'd probably been studying Opress's technique before hand and noted Makashi with some Martial Arts move was the best way to put him down quickly and without any serious injury.

Originally posted by Arhael

And you are entitled to believe so. My point is that both of them one or another way demonstrated exceptional combat skills and offensive Force use. My opinion is that their fight would be more or less even and outcome would depend on circumstances and luck rather than one stomping another.

There will definitely be no stomping. And Sabers/Close Combat would be close. But I'm going to give Dooku superiority in an all out for now. Just due to his Uber command of the Force.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

'It would have been difficult to fight the entire Jedi security force, but dealing with you will be easy.'
Obviously Anakin is not an easy foe for Tyranus. But he likes to think so.

Your kidding right??

That was all a Lie! He wanted to fight Skywalker alone under Sidious's order.

Anyone got a link for the Dooku vs ventress & nightsisters blind scene?

@Arhael

You have made some amazing points. Your debating skills are certainly improving along with your grasp of things. 🙂

Originally posted by Arhael
He handled Opress with lightning, so he could engage Ventress alone.

I would like to expand on this particular point.

Ventress actually outsmarted Dooku in lightsaber duel in this fight. She used impressive acrobatics to assist her in her moves and it worked (this combat style reminded me of Revan 🙂 ). Dooku then resorted to his greater command of the Force to subdue her.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]@Arhael

You have made some amazing points. Your debating skills are certainly improving along with your grasp of things. 🙂

I would like to expand on this particular point.

Ventress actually outsmarted Dooku in lightsaber duel in this fight. She used impressive acrobatics to assist her in her moves and it worked (this combat style reminded me of Revan 🙂 ). Dooku then resorted to his greater command of the Force to subdue her.

Thanks, you got better as well. 🙂

Ehm, I think you are refering to different fight, where Ventress was with nightsisters. In fight with Opress he didn't use Force against her at all. To sum it up, when both Ventress and Opress were attacking him, he was dodging Opress and kicked Ventress twice. After being disarmed by Opress Dooku demonstrated amazing speed by dodging all her attacks and then reclaimed his lightsaber. After that they more or less stalemated each other until Opress choked them both.

Originally posted by Arhael
And? Serious fight between Windu and Dooku is possible only after AotC. In any case friendly Jedi sparrings have little weight. Agen Kolar could fight Windu evenly in sparring, yet, in real fight it took Sidious couple of swings to finish him.

Proof Mace was going all out in that sparring session. Being able to spar with someone does not ~ sparring on an even level with them.


In case of fight with Opress I actually will defend Dooku. He more than capable to defend against strong attacks as he demonstrated in fights with Anakin. Anakin won simply because he was far more powerful, not because of Dooku's style weakness. He simply didn't expect Opress' attack to be THAT strong and he never fought such strong opponent before, thus didn't need to invent apropriate tactics to handle him.

Uhhh he's fought strong opponents before that. But mostly I agree.

O yeah? Quality is more important than quantity. Maul fought Qui-Gon and Kenobi simultaniously relying on his combat skills ONLY.

😆 Dooku's quality is superior. It's hilarious how you find Mauls showing impressive even though he consistently uses kicks to separate Kenobi and Qui-Gon, but throw out Obi-Wan's showing because he used kicks on Savage. Double standard much?


In turn Dooku ALWAYS relied on offensive Force use. He handled Anakin with lightning, so he could fight Kenobi alone. He handled Opress with lightning, so he could engage Ventress alone. He handled nightsisters with lighting. And finally he handled Kenobi with Force, so he could fight Anakin alone. Dooku never fought more than one opponent without relying on Force attacks, however, Maul did.

1. Maul was using a weapon designed for engaging multiple foes.
2. Dooku's form II Makashi is by nature weak against multiple opponents.
So no Maul's showing against Kenobi and Qui-Gon is not superior at all. Dooku's mastery of Makashi practically transcend the form itself. A form not able to match more than one opponent was adapted to handle multiple opponents with seeming ease.


In fight with Opress Maul used one-handed grip. Instead of blocking attacks outright, he blended with them and redirected without using much strength. Despite him being Juyo practitioner, he demonstrated perhaps the best example of refined and subtle grace of Makashi.

Uhh no, that was Juyo, using one's own power against them is the very principle of Vaapad which is based on Juyo. Just because it's one-handed does not make it Makashi. That was undoubtedly Juyo mixed with Tera Kasi


And on top of that he demonstrated that masterfully executed unarmed technique can overcome even Opress' strength.
Only blind will not see exceptional skill and raw tallent in Maul's combat.

"It strikes me as unnecessary, but I won't deny his mastery of the Jar'Kai technique. Niman and teräs käsi will never substitute for dun möch, but I appreciate that you have trained him to be a fighting machine rather than a true apprentice."--Plagueis
No one is denying his mastery. I am simply arguing he isn't above Dooku.


Dooku adapts different tactics for different situations and uses second hand, when he needs extra strength. Noone said he can't use Form I, when situation requires.
In any case one handed style is as good as two-handed. Proven by real life. Proven by Dooku, when fending off Kenobi and Anakin
with one hand in RotS. Proven by Luke, when fighting Lomi Plo. Proven by Caedus, when fighting Jaina. Proven by Maul, when stomping Opress. Proven by Kenobi, when right after Adi's death he used one-handed grip to defend against both brothers. Countless evidence proves your assumption completly wrong and unreasonable.

So you are saying a one-handed grip can be as powerful as a 2 handed one from the same person? 😂


And how is it relevant to your statement about unarmed combat???

I don't even remember why we were talking about unarmed combat. Maul is above Dooku in unarmed combat. I can agree with that.


He was forced to go full defence with lightsaber, that's why he started using Force attacs on first place, to survive.

Dooku dicks around too much when he fights Skywalker.


Are you seriously trying to use a mocking statement as evidence? In that case Dooku took Yoda lightly as well because he was similarly mocking him.

"I've become more powerful than any Jedi even you."
Hardly suggests he does not respect Yoda's powers.
Dooku clearly takes Anakin lightly every time he faces him, the dialogue makes that clear.


Because you felt need to say my believe is wrong. I said Maul "might" be above Dooku in combat. I used word "might" to signify that I am not certain myself, not willing to prove it and it doesn't matter in general.

Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda Proof Mace was going all out in that sparring session. Being able to spar with someone does not ~ sparring on an even level with them.
I don't have it. It was posted by someone long ago, probably by Gideon. You would need the same prove for Dooku and Windu sparring. I actually can't remember any sourcebook to state that, Windu was said to be on par only with Yoda and no mention of Dooku at all.

😆 Dooku's quality is superior. It's hilarious how you find Mauls showing impressive even though he consistently uses kicks to separate Kenobi and Qui-Gon, but throw out Obi-Wan's showing because he used kicks on Savage. Double standard much?

You must be mistaking me with someone or misunderstood some of my statements. I consider Kenobi above Dooku in pure sabers. I never lowballed Kenobi's kicks. On opposite I praise them as it shows his strength in unarmed combat as well as versatility.

1. Maul was using a weapon designed for engaging multiple foes.
2. Dooku's form II Makashi is by nature weak against multiple opponents.
So no Maul's showing against Kenobi and Qui-Gon is not superior at all. Dooku's mastery of Makashi practically transcend the form itself. A form not able to match more than one opponent was adapted to handle multiple opponents with seeming ease.

1. True
2. True. That's why he relied on Force attacks in each fight, while Maul didn't.

Uhh no, that was Juyo, using one's own power against them is the very principle of Vaapad which is based on Juyo.

Now that you gonna need to prove or at least tell me the source, so I could check it. I read about Juyo and it said nothing about using force of opponent, only that it is unpredictable, offensive and requires to use emotions. Moreover, in film on technical level Windu didn't use Sidious' strength against him.

No one is denying his mastery. I am simply arguing he isn't above Dooku.

And noone is denying Dooku's mastery. As I said my opinion is that they are even, Maul has advantage of being unarmed combat expert, while Dooku is better in offensive Force use.

So you are saying a one-handed grip can be as powerful as a 2 handed one from the same person? 😂

Yes, if the same person has mastered one-handed style. And there is plenty of canon evidence to support it and none to disprove it. I find it strange that feats of Maul and Kenobi alone are not enough for you.

Dooku clearly takes Anakin lightly every time he faces him, the dialogue makes that clear.
Dialog will never make it clear. If Dooku was taking him lightly, it wouldn't take Anakin to get enraged on two occasions and still being unable to outduel him in pure lightsaber fight.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda

Uhh no, that was Juyo, using one's own power against them is the very principle of Vaapad which is based on Juyo. Just because it's one-handed does not make it Makashi. That was undoubtedly Juyo mixed with Tera Kasi

Maul didn't use Opress's own power against him. He deflected his power strikes aside with precise parries. That and the one handed use of his Lightsaber to do so certainly looked a lot more like Makashi than it did Juyo.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dooku dicks around too much when he fights Skywalker.

Dooku clearly takes Anakin lightly every time he faces him, the dialogue makes that clear.

You know that's not true.

He hated Skywalker and how interested Sidious was in him. He'd like nothing more than to quickly defeat him in front of Sidious.

He's even shown in the CW movie to clearly be going for the kill.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Maul didn't use Opress's own power against him. He deflected his power strikes aside with precise parries. That and the one handed use of his Lightsaber to do so certainly looked a lot more like Makashi than it did Juyo.

Juyo incorporates elements of the other 6 forms into it. So yeah.


You know that's not true.

He hated Skywalker and how interested Sidious was in him. He'd like nothing more than to quickly defeat him in front of Sidious.

He's even shown in the CW movie to clearly be going for the kill.


If that were so true he'd have killed him during the Battle of Naboo.