Dooku vs Maul

Originally posted by ares834
Please. The over extension he was talking about was clearly a political over extension.

😐

Regardless, he only describes Kenobi's state of mind as "focused" and "ready". That doesn't seem to be a unique mindset, especially because he hints their loss in Revenge was partially due to the unexpected appearance of Savage.

The difference 8etween having and not having those attri8utes is Anakin and Zonakin.

And the fight happened after O8i-Wan knew Savage was there and as I recall Ventress went looking for him specifically so that last part makes no sense.

Originally posted by ares834
How? In TPM he is giving in to anger and hate. He isn't doing that here at all.

What if we compromise and say he's doing what he did in TPM but calmly? 😐

I don't understand the debate...Kenobi is superior to the Zabrak brothers. Focused Kenobi with clarity of mind will come out on top of Maul.

Right..... and Ventress is superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan.

Originally posted by Nephthys
The difference 8etween having and not having those attri8utes is Anakin and Zonakin.

Not really. Zonakin isn't merely focused, he is letting go of his restraint and using the dark side as well.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And the fight happened after O8i-Wan knew Savage was there and as I recall Ventress went looking for him specifically so that last part makes no sense.

It's what Filoni claimed, not I, and it makes some sense. Sure, Kenobi may realize Savage is there, but that doesn't mean he is ready to challenge both of them. Also Filoni was talking about Kenobi, not Ventress.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Right..... and Ventress is superior to Anakin and O8i-Wan.

Because she TKed them? Come on man you can do better than that.

Originally posted by ares834
Not really. Zonakin isn't merely focused, he is letting go of his restraint and using the dark side as well.

It's what Filoni claimed, not I, and it makes some sense. Sure, Kenobi may realize Savage is there, but that doesn't mean he is ready to challenge both of them. Also Filoni was talking about Kenobi, not Ventress.

Read the RotS novel for how u8er Kenobi is when focused.

Then he must have 8een talking a8out where they pwned him in the villiage. 8ecause O8i-Wan never fights Savage in the other fight. :I

'You should have, fear, surprise and intimidation on your side...'
When Maul and Savage attacked they had all 3. That's why they won.
Similar to when Grievous dominated 5 Jedi.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Because she TKed them? Come on man you can do better than that.

And she 8eat O8i-Wan in 8 second.

8ut yes, she was Force Choking them at the same time it was only when Dooku ordered them to fire on her ship that the Choke was 8roken. Could they have 8roken out? Maybe. She was doing very well against them though. Were I a 8etting man, I wouldn't count her out.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Read the RotS novel for how u8er Kenobi is when focused.

I know he's good. But I'm not convinced it's some unique state of mind.

Originally posted by Nephthys

Then he must have 8een talking a8out where they pwned him in the villiage. 8ecause O8i-Wan never fights Savage in the other fight. :I

Perhaps. But he also mentions how Ventress and Kenobi are forced to retreat.

Originally posted by Nephthys
And she 8eat O8i-Wan in 8 second.

8ut yes, she was Force Choking them at the same time it was only when Dooku ordered them to fire on her ship that the Choke was 8roken. Could they have 8roken out? Maybe. She was doing very well against them though. Were I a 8etting man, I wouldn't count her out.

Dude...I am talking about in raw sabers. When you incorporate the Force into a debate it becomes more of a debate.
My point is that in a raw duel with sabers and kicks and all of that, Kenobi is superior to the Maul brothers if focused. The Ventress example is a poor one because she caught them off guard. If force choking someone meant anything Savage would be>Dooku and Ventress.

Originally posted by ares834
I know he's good. But I'm not convinced it's some unique state of mind.

No?

'As he is prodded onto the bridge along with Anakin and Chancellor Palpatine, he has no need to look around to see the banks of control consoles tended by terrified Neimoidians. He doesn't have to turn his head to count the droidekas and super battle droids, or to gauge the positions of the brutal droid bodyguards. He doesn't bother to raise his eyes to meet the cold yellow stare fixed on him through a skull-mask of armorplast. He doesn't even need to reach into the Force. He has already let the Force reach into him. The Force flows over him and around him as though he has stepped into a crystal-pure waterfall lost in the green coils of a forgotten rain forest; when he opens himself to that sparkling stream it flows into him and through him and out again without the slightest interference from his conscious will. The part of him that calls itself Obi-Wan Kenobi is no more than a ripple, an eddy in the pool into which he endlessly pours.

There are other parts of him here, as well; there is nothing here that is not a part of him, from the scuff mark on R2-D2's dome to the tattered hem of Palpatine's robe, from the spidering crack in one transparisteel panel of the curving view wall above to the great starships that still battle beyond it.

Because this is all part of the Force.'

'"That will not happen. I am in control here." The reply came through Obi-Wan's lips, but it was not truly Obi-Wan who spoke. Obi-Wan was not in control; he had no need for control. He had the Force.

It was the Force that spoke through him. Grievous stalked forward. Obi-Wan saw death in the cold yellow stare through the skull-mask's eyeholes, and it meant nothing to him at all.'

When Keno8i focuses, he really fvcking focuses.

Originally posted by ares834
Perhaps. But he also mentions how Ventress and Kenobi are forced to retreat.

Meh. No idea what he's on a8out though. He isn't a G-canon source anyway, he could just 8e remem8ering the episode wrong.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Dude...I am talking about in raw sabers. When you incorporate the Force into a debate it becomes more of a debate.
My point is that in a raw duel with sabers and kicks and all of that, Kenobi is superior to the Maul brothers if focused. The Ventress example is a poor one because she caught them off guard. If force choking someone meant anything Savage would be>Dooku and Ventress.

So you agree with me. Oh good, it's nice that you see sense.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No?

When Keno8i focuses, he really fvcking focuses.

Ok, and does anything indicate that those quotes you supplied are a unique state for him like Zonakin is for Anakin?

Frankly, being "focused" just doesn't come across as some unique state of mind to me. After all, focus, meditation, and letting the force guide you are a big part of being a Jedi.

Edit: Hell, both of those are from different moments in RotS suggesting being focused isn't some unique state of mind that Kenobi slips into very rarely.

Those are from the same scene, I just skipped some dialogue.

Ah, thought the second part was from when he dueled Grievous.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So you agree with me. Oh good, it's nice that you see sense.

You are grasping at straws. When analyzing a piece the directors intent supersedes the opinions of the viewers. The director of TCW intended the scene to end with Kenobi victorious. That's why he has Maul and him running in desperation, he even adds the pirates to comment that if they are running from Kenobi they can't be that powerful.

Filoni intended that fight to end in Obi-Wan's victory, that's how it was. Discussion over.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
You are grasping at straws. When analyzing a piece the directors intent supersedes the opinions of the viewers. The director of TCW intended the scene to end with Kenobi victorious. That's why he has Maul and him running in desperation, he even adds the pirates to comment that if they are running from Kenobi they can't be that powerful.

Filoni intended that fight to end in Obi-Wan's victory, that's how it was. Discussion over.

I don't know what you are talking a8out. You specifically mentioned that Keno8i's 'victory' was to do with his state of mind, which is what I am saying and that we cannot accept Ventress or Savage's overpowering as proof that they are superior to their opponents, which is what I am also saying. O8i-Wan only 'won' 8ecause of his extremely focused state of mind, 8rought a8out 8y Galia's death. It doesn't mean that O8i-Wan is actually >>> the Za8rak 8ros. Just 8ecause you 8eat someone doesn't make you 8etter. Look at the Anakin vs O8i-Wan fight.

If he had truly intended that then he wouldn't have ended the fight with Maul overpowering O8i-Wan. Again.

And technically speaking, he does not say that O8i-Wan won. So you can put that in your pipe and smoke it. 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys
I don't know what you are talking a8out. You specifically mentioned that Keno8i's 'victory' was to do with his state of mind, which is what I am saying and that we cannot accept Ventress or Savage's overpowering as proof that they are superior to their opponents, which is what I am also saying. O8i-Wan only 'won' 8ecause of his extremely focused state of mind, 8rought a8out 8y Galia's death. It doesn't mean that O8i-Wan is actually >>> the Za8rak 8ros. Just 8ecause you 8eat someone doesn't make you 8etter. Look at the Anakin vs O8i-Wan fight.

If he had truly intended that then he wouldn't have ended the fight with Maul overpowering O8i-Wan. Again.

And technically speaking, he does not say that O8i-Wan won. So you can put that in your pipe and smoke it. 😉

I am not saying Kenobi is>>>the Zabrak bros. What I am saying is that he may be better.
You are debating semantics. Filoni says that Kenobi walked into that fight focused and there was no way he'd lose.
Sam said
'It was more of a tie'
Filoni flat out says
'No'
In a battle you can have 3 results
Victory, Tie, or Loss.
Kenobi sure as hell didn't lose and he didn't tie according to Kenobi ergo Obi-Wan won, Maul lost.

Originally posted by Nephthys
O8i-Wan 'won' 8y 8eing tactical and repeatedly focusing on Savage's knee. That doesn't show that he's 8etter than them in 'raw sa8ers'.

It shows he's a more skilled combatant than Opress. And he beat him due to that.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Kenobi was evading and blocking both of their attacks with barely any stress, and was simultaneously landing blows on Savage. He won in seconds dude. That fight barely lasted a minute. That's why Maul resorted to TK.

That's a bit of an exaggeration Mizukage Yoda.