Originally posted by The_Tempest
Your incessant reference to that has been a constant source of amusement for me, especially since you jumped SIDIOUS66's ass multiple times about referencing Palpatine's manhandling of Maul & Savage. 😂
That's not what happened.
And we will see whose amused on Saturday 🙂
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Oh, you didn't take issue with SIDIOUS66 referencing Palpatine's manhandling of Maul & Savage?Revisionist history ftw! 😂
No... I took issue with Sidious66 claiming that Palpatine's mahandling was all just an act, and that he could have blitz Maul the same way he did Fisto.
I also took issue with Sidious66 claiming Maul in that fight was in the same fit of rage that he was when Palpatine had him hunted and starved for weeks, and then told him he was being replaced.
I know you Sidous/Palpatine fans like to stick together but at least read what the debate was about before making accusations.
facepalm
DARTH POWER
Anyway I agree with Borbarad. There's no point in discussing this until we see how the fight plays out on Tv. I find it unlikely that Sidious will waste both of them together that badly.
But it's okay to keep bringing up Obi-Wan's performance against Savage and Maul in an episode that hasn't publicly aired. 😂
Originally posted by The_Tempest
facepalmBut it's okay to keep bringing up Obi-Wan's performance against Savage and Maul in an episode that hasn't publicly aired. 😂
Firstly that really wasn't worth a facepalm.
Taking a one off quote of mine on a discussion that lasted pages and pages is not really fair, because it's not what the discussion was about and certianly doesn't sum it up.
I was fully accepting Sidious tooling them throughout the discussion. What I "jumped him on" and was debating him for all those pages was the "extra's" he was making up. Which I've already explained. That kind of completely unfounded speculation has to be challenged.
And as for the Obi-Wan fight, all I've said is we'll see on Sat.
And FYI Dave Filoni said in the interviews after the screening that Obi-Wan defeats Maul and Opress together. He even gave the explanation of how it's because Obi-Wan was much more focused in this episode, and he's an exceptional swordsman.
I've only gone on about that fight since I heard that.
If you think Fisto can do a similar thing, then fine, but it's just your thoughts. Don't pretend that there's any evidence anywhere that Fisto is in a league to do that.
And for your information this is right before the part you quoted which is also what kicked off the whole thing:
Originally posted by DARTH POWERWell because your trying to make something a fact that's never been shown. Your trying to tell me Sidious can blitz Maul and Savage in 2 seconds flat. Even though in that passage that doesn't happen.
Just because your a bigger Sidious fan then Sidious66 doesn't mean you can just completely twist what started that debate and what it was actually about and then make accusations based on your twisting.
Jeez Palpatine has taught you well!
[list]
[*]I never said that was what the discussion was about or that it sums it up: I said you did X, you denied it, I proved you did X, the end
[*]I called you out on it earlier and on the top of page 3 of this thread, you agreed to table the discussion about Obi-Wan vs. Maul & Savage until you actually saw it (which is what you demanded of SIDIOUS66 on the Zabraks' duel with Sidious)
[*]I never claimed Kit could take on the Zabraks together, so there's nothing to pretend
[*]You lose
[/list]
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yep but when Kenobi Force pushed him the fight was over. (And I'm not just talking about ROTS. Happened in Arc Troopers as well).I think that's kind of clear whose more powerful.
Who would that 8e? O8i-Wan who o8viously concentr8ed and powered up his Force Push or Fisto, who did his after somersaulting in the air and forcing Grievous' lightsa8er 8ack so far it scraped his chest?
oh right the answer is that this is a dum8 comparison my 8ad
Originally posted by The_TempestNo one can declare whether a thread has reached its maximum use. Its ironic how you just lost that argument.
In light of my effortless victory on all fronts, I declare that this thread has reached its maximum use and no longer needs to be open. May the display of my banner inspire the rest of you fools to raise your game. excellentstoned
By no means you have had any victory. Its just your opinion, and everyone else has their opinion.
I dont see many others agreeing with your arguments
Originally posted by mnat801
No one can declare whether a thread has reached its maximum use. Its ironic how you just lost that argument.
Spoiler:
It was a joke.
Originally posted by mnat801
By no means you have had any victory. Its just your opinion, and everyone else has their opinion.
No one cares.
Originally posted by mnat801
I dont see many others agreeing with your arguments
Maybe you should see an optometrist about getting glasses? 😬
SIDIOUS66, JT, ares834, and Nephthys all stand united behind me, fighting for my honorable cause and inspired by my boundless glory.
I win.
Originally posted by The_Tempesthmm, some pretty weak responses.Spoiler:
It was a joke.No one cares.
Maybe you should see an optometrist about getting glasses? 😬
SIDIOUS66, JT, ares834, and Nephthys all stand united behind me, fighting for my honorable cause and inspired by my boundless glory.
I win.
what exactly did you win?
Originally posted by The_Tempest
[list]
[*]I never said that was what the discussion was about or that it sums it up: I said you did X, you denied it, I proved you did X, the end
Yeah but you didn't prove it. You claimed I jumped all over S66 for believing in the novel version of events. Which didn't happen. I did say to him the when the episode airs that will be the final version of events.
And he said in the meantime this is the most canon version of events we have, which I agreed to.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
[*]I called you out on it earlier and on the top of page 3 of this thread, you agreed to table the discussion about Obi-Wan vs. Maul & Savage until you actually saw it (which is what you demanded of SIDIOUS66 on the Zabraks' duel with Sidious)
I didn't "demand" that off him at all. Stop talking shit. I demanded he stop making things up which "WERE NOT SHOWN IN THE NOVEL VERSION OF EVENTS"
I'm confused what's so difficult for you to understand here.
And your comparing 2 completely different things. With the Obi-Wan fight I'm not going by what's written in the novel (I've not seen that part of the novel). I'm going by what the supervising director of the show said himself about why it is Obi-Wan is defeating these 2 now, when he didn't in the last episode:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8PEGa3Wq50&list=FLrKGT8JBJiLzK74wuMOt5sw&index=1&feature=plpp_video
It's at around 13:30.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
[*]I never claimed Kit could take on the Zabraks together, so there's nothing to pretend
So stop pretending him and Kenobi are in the same league then. I've posted the link above where Dave Filoni himself is saying Obi-Wan beats Maul and Opress fair and square.
Ohhh but then Kit did beat Grievous!
Originally posted by The_Tempest
[*]You lose
[/list]
No your just being an ass. Some things never change though do they?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Who would that 8e? O8i-Wan who o8viously concentr8ed and powered up his Force Push or Fisto, who did his after somersaulting in the air and forcing Grievous' lightsa8er 8ack so far it scraped his chest?oh right the answer is that this is a dum8 comparison my 8ad
And yet Kenobi had him beaten, but for all your Fisto did this and that, he never actually defeated Grievous in a much lengthier fight where he did use the Force on him.
And I'm not just going to pretend that Fisto can do something we haven't seen from him. Kenobi owned Grievous with the Force, Fisto didn't. Since we all here love comparing how Jedi do against Grievous and ignore all other feats and showings, that should prove Kenobi is substantially more powerful in the Force than Fisto.
And I dunno what's up with Nephthys. Some time ago you were arguing with me for pages about how Kenobi is superior to Maul and Opress, but when it comes to Fisto you think he's met his match?!
Watever dude!
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Well he went on to tool Grievous, who early in the clone wars, bested both Ventress and Durge. Seeing how Ventress bested Fisto early in the clone wars, I'd say that is pretty much evident that Fisto improved considerably.Every encounter Kenobi has had with Grievous in TCW was clearly a struggle for him. Only after having much experience with Grievous, was Kenobi able to match Fisto's performance against the same opponent. But because Kenobi is about Ventress's equal in combat (barely besting her on a couple of occasion and then being pwned by her on another), we can conclude that he is superior to Fisto? Unless Kenobi regularly tools Ventress as he did Grievous in ROTS, or if it can somehow be proven that Ventress herself is in a different league than Fisto, then I don't see how that is proof that Kenobi is superior to Fisto.
First of all, I'm not saying Fisto is better than Ventress, so I don't see your point. And second of all, how do you figure Fisto "HAD" to resort to using the force? Fisto's use of the force wasn't a desperate attempt to gain an advantage (seeing how he had to upperhand the entire time), it was more of an attempt to humiliate Grievous, the same way Dooku has done to Grievous in their sparring match.
That's not all I said. Why are you ignoring my entire argument?
Besides, it's kinda hard to compare Windu's duel with Grievous. They were both fighting on a moving train. And while the disadvantage may have went both ways for both Mace and Grievous, we know Windu had to draw on the force just to keep himself positioned to keep him from flying off, so we don't know if that limited his ability to draw on the force for speed and by how much.
Sidious dispatched all three "celebrated masters" before Windu could do a thing about it. The first two he blitzed before they could even REACT. I don't see how Dooku can prevent him from quickly taking Kenobi out. Again, the speed difference is just too great. At best Kenobi might can avoid being blitzed as fast as they did because of his defensive style (I still doubt that big time but whatever), but he definitely isn't going to be a factor.
Ummm because Kenobi the THE master of something they are not DEFENSE. Could that explain how he could survive longer? Surely it does and could.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet Kenobi had him beaten, but for all your Fisto did this and that, he never actually defeated Grievous in a much lengthier fight where he did use the Force on him.
Only 8ecause Grievous had 8ack up. Fisto was pushing him 8ack and would have won more like than not. He didn't appear to be straining himself particularly.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And I'm not just going to pretend that Fisto can do something we haven't seen from him. Kenobi owned Grievous with the Force, Fisto didn't. Since we all here love comparing how Jedi do against Grievous and ignore all other feats and showings, that should prove Kenobi is substantially more powerful in the Force than Fisto.
No, it doesn't. Keno8i put a lot into that push, whereas Fisto just pushed him in the middle of fighting. You can't compare the 2 feats.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And I dunno what's up with Nephthys. Some time ago you were arguing with me for pages about how Kenobi is superior to Maul and Opress, but when it comes to Fisto you think he's met his match?!Watever dude!
When did I say that I thought Fisto is superior to Keno8i, or even equal?
Originally posted by Nephthys
Only 8ecause Grievous had 8ack up. Fisto was pushing him 8ack and would have won more like than not. He didn't appear to be straining himself particularly.
What's with the 8's instead of B's? Fix your damn keyboard..
Anyway, of course Fisto was going to win(if not for the Grievous's back up). My point is if we're going to compare just by the CW fights against Grievous than Kenobi actually defeated him faster.
Heck even Eeth Koth defeated him faster, and that's with an injured arm.
Originally posted by Nephthys
No, it doesn't. Keno8i put a lot into that push, whereas Fisto just pushed him in the middle of fighting. You can't compare the 2 feats.
That's like me saying Fisto put more into the Saber fight so we can't compare.
Fact is Obi-Wan owning Grievous with the Force is a Force feat for Obi-Wan. A feat that Fisto doesn't have. I don't like all the "assuming" that's been going on in this thread.
Let's just assume Fisto improved just as much as Kenobi did through the CW.
Let's just assume "IF" Fisto put in more effort he could have matched Kenobi's Force push.
It seems Fisto's whole case here is based on assumptions.
Originally posted by Nephthys
When did I say that I thought Fisto is superior to Keno8i, or even equal?
It seemed to be what your implying with your argument. And this:
Originally posted by Nephthys
Well then, that clears that up.
was your response to JT apparently proving Fisto is Kenobi's equal.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
What's with the 8's instead of B's? Fix your damn keyboard..
Yes, I should stop, 8ut addiction is a powerful thing.
(hehe)
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Anyway, of course Fisto was going to win(if not for the Grievous's back up). My point is if we're going to compare just by the CW fights against Grievous than Kenobi actually defeated him faster.Heck even Eeth Koth defeated him faster, and that's with an injured arm.
Which puts Keno8i 'leagues' above him?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's like me saying Fisto put more into the Saber fight so we can't compare.
No it isn't. We know from the 8ane novels that it is pawsi8le to 'charge up' a Force attack 8efore unleashing it. Keno8i clearly did that, winding up and concentr8ing 8efore pushing Grievous. Fisto merely pushed him.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Let's just assume Fisto improved just as much as Kenobi did through the CW.
Let's just assume "IF" Fisto put in more effort he could have matched Kenobi's Force push.It seems Fisto's whole case here is based on assumptions.
That it not what I have said at any point. All I have said is that it is foolish to compare the two feats 8ecause it would be silly to assume that Fisto could not match Keno8i's Force push, were he to concentr8 as much as Keno8i did.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It seemed to be what your implying with your argument. And this:was your response to JT apparently proving Fisto is Kenobi's equal.
8ecause it seemed that he had apparently proven that Fisto was Keno8i's equal. I'm still not convinced that he hasn't. We know that Keno8i improves over the CW, 8ut it is an assumption that he improved enough to eclipse Fisto.