Consider these factors:
- mace windu vs dooku. result: mace winning after a long, hard fight.
- mace defeated sideous
- mace saying humbly that obi wan is in his league (or whatever he said, it was something like that)
-obi wans duel against maul and opress being relatively short, cutting off an arm
-sideous vs maul and savage (lets see if he does any damage and if it was a longer duel)
Under these considerations, i'd say dooku and obi wan would have at least some chance of victory over sids
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66Wrong. You accused everyone who was arguing for Sidious in the Ventress @ Opress vs. Kit @ Kenobi thread of being fanboys. Hell, you even admitted that your remark wasn't directed solely at me. Also, in that very same thread, you made a remark about a poster who wasn't even taking part in the thread (the time you were going out of your way to get on Nai's good side, trying to impress him). Just because you later kiss ass, in hopes that everyone won't gang up on you, doesn't mean that you were always civil with them. Just like you tried being civil with me, kissing my ass, when Tempest was going in on you.
Like I said, you're an insulting person when your arguments are being butchered, but then you change to being a crying kiss ass, pretending to be a victim, when you're being attacked. If you're going to be a cocky smartass, then by all means, be that way. But don't pretend to be a victim when you're being attacked. Don't be a hypocrite and call someone out for "being a jerk" to you or accuse others of being childish. That's what's annoying to me.
You know, I don't even have to know you personally to tell that you are a hypocritical person, a poser, and an insecure crybaby.
Yeah the guy whose just completely lost it over a facepalm is accusing me of being an insecure crybaby 👆
S66 Your absolutely nuts.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
No, you didn't. All you did was keep repeating things like "Fisto is no match for Maul, Savage, or Ventress!! Kenobi held his own against them, Fisto can't!!"
HAHAHA
Yeah that's 3 opponents of Kenobi's I've mentioned there who Fisto clearly can't compete with. 2 of them he's taken on simultaneously!
Beats the heck out of your argument just keep bringing up "Oh but Fisto was beating Grievous!!!"
I think someone's seriously butt hurt and just can't accept when he's clearly WRONG and clearly LOST!
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I guess we are suppose to forget how badly Kenobi has had his ass kicked by those same opponents, or how he consistently struggles against Grievous.
You mean when he wasn't expecting to face Opress, and only got disarmed by him when keeping an eye out for Maul??
Or you mean when he fought Maul after getting beaten senseless??
Not to mention in both those fights Dave Filoni has confirmed that Kenobi wasn't ready or properly focused.
Oh and the consistent struggles against Grievous you keep bringing up are just laughable!
There's only 2 full fights he's had with Grievous. Once in Grievous Intrigue and once in Arc Troopers.
In Grievous Intrigue he fought off Grievous and a Magnaguard in quite a confined space, something Fisto never had to do. And yet he still beat his ass. Something Fisto never did.
In Arc Troopers he beat him pretty quickly. Much quicker than Fisto was able.
And BOTH those fights were very early in the CW.
So your argument has failed on so many levels. Your just making a tool out of yourself now S66.
Hey you want to gang up on me with Tempest, be my guest. You can both make complete tools out of yourself together!
Originally posted by mnat801
Plus Savage has only been recently trained by dooku, so what makes you think he can can take on a jedi that has been training almost all his life?! Savage vs obi wan is a no brainer.
This logic won't cut it.
Adi Gallia was also training all her life and yet Savage beat the snot out of her.
He also beat Ventress pretty comfortably in the episode before.
Originally posted by juyomaster34
Hold up bub,Sidious won that duel BC Anakin intervened.
He said THREE, not FOUR. He's referring to Tinn, Fisto, and Kolar... not Windu.
Originally posted by juyomaster34
Who was he talking to? It came back to my email that he was talking to me, IF he wasn't talking about me then I appologize Sidious 66But if he was then I would like to know where in my post did I offend Sidious 66 ?
You're a bright one aren't you?
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
How do you know Fisto can't compete w/ Maul or Savage? Please elaborate on this one specific point DP.
Because last we knew he couldn't even defeat Ventress.
We could assume that he can now. But if we start making those kind of assumptions to favor our arguments then that will change the nature of every versus we debate in.
And let's not forget Obi-Wan did not just compete with Maul/Savage individually, but he actually competed with both of them together. And even defeated one of them while doing so.
Is there really any reason anywhere to suggest Fisto could do that? I don't think so JT.
His quick blitz to Sidious also doesn't help his case considering it seems as though Maul and Savage do miles better against Sidious.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
By that measure... how do you know Fisto can't compete with Ventress? This should be very interesting. And keep it on track. Don't dilute things or try and sidestep the subject.
Again JT you really won't to take the route of "how do we know such a person can't do something?"
And last we checked he coudln't take Ventress. Do we know as a fact he's improved since then? Even if we do can we quantify by how much?
We actually do know as a fact that Ventress has substantially improved since then. Enough for Sidious to take notice and order her execution.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Because last we knew he couldn't even compete with Ventress.We could assume that he can now. But if we start making those kind of assumptions to favor our arguments then that will change the nature of every versus we debate in.
And let's not forget Obi-Wan did not just compete with Maul/Savage individually, but he actually competed with both of them together.
Is there really any reason anywhere to suggest Fisto could do that? I don't think so JT.
His quick blitz to Sidious also doesn't help his case considering it seems as though Maul and Savage do miles better against Sidious.
The same Obi-Wan who couldn't compete with Ventress at that time either... the same Obi Wan who has been nearly bested by Ventress on subsequent occasions repeatedly... the same Obi Wan who was nearly killed by Grievous (who was in turn ***king SCHOOLED by Fisto) on numerous occasions (well, at least 2)... Until you see or read about Fisto dueling Ventress again at a later point in the timeline, then you really should quit stretching and making wild assumptions. And yes, Fisto humiliating Grievous says quite a bit about his combat prowess (along with numerous other quotes, even from Kenobi himself), like it or not.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I doubt it will happen. From the rumors and lack of footage, I doubt Mother Talzin will be making an appearance this season.
Isn't this going to be the last season? I thought they were only planning to make 100 episodes. If this is then end, it's a shame, as the series is actually starting to take off and capture my interest.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
The same Obi-Wan who couldn't compete with Ventress at that time either...
Doesn't matter because he's clearly above her now. In fact has been as early as the CW movie.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
the same Obi Wan who has been nearly bested by Ventress on subsequent occasions repeatedly...
Please enlighten me on these repeated occasions. I only remember one time where Ventress was clearly rage enhanced and where Anakin and Obi-Wan were clearly holding back (they gave her numerous opportunities to surrender when they could have killed her. Or even chopped something off.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
the same Obi Wan who was nearly killed by Grievous (who was in turn ***king SCHOOLED by Fisto) on numerous occasions (well, at least 2)...
Yeah if we ignore that one of those times he was fighting off Grievous + magnaguards in a very confined space, and the other time he defeated Grievous in much shorter time than Fisto was able to.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Until you see or read about Fisto dueling Ventress again at a later point in the timeline, then you really should quit stretching and making wild assumptions.
Whose stretching what? Your telling me "how do we know Fisto isn't that good now?" With arguments like that it only seems like it's the Fisto camp who are stretching anything to me.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
And yes, Fisto humiliating Grievous says quite a bit about his combat prowess, like it or not.
Yeah great. So did Eeth Koth with a wounded arm.
Adi Gallia also held her own against Grievous quite well, actually kciking him back. And yet we saw what Opress did to her.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Indeed. Why, in their recent duel he pwned her in seconds and then went on to pwn her and Anakin with the Force at the same time.Oh no. Waaaaaaaait......... mmm
I know I know. Ventress is clearly superior to him. Especially considering how Opress beat on Obi-Wan in the last episode of season 4 after Obi-Wan hunted him down.
And then in this latest episode Ventress was matching both Maul and Opress together and defeated Opress.
Oh no. Waaaaaaaait......... mmm
😛
Originally posted by Nephthys
You are completely right. It is well known that if A>8 and 8>C then oooooooo8viously A>C. It's just completely unfallacious logic.
I'll tell you what's better logic.
A>C
B> A (when backed up by D who himself is far superior to A)
Then yeah chances are B >> C
Besides the whole Fisto argument is based on A beat C seemingly easier than B did therefore A=C.
That's a much much worse case of A>B>C where both A and B are greater than C, but we're making judgements on the easiness of their respective victories over C.
Very bad A>B>C logic especially when all those fights took place in completely different environments and circumstances.
Also regarding Ventress's CW series victory over Kenobi:
Originally posted by DARTH POWERI only remember one time where Ventress was clearly rage enhanced and where Anakin and Obi-Wan were clearly holding back (they gave her numerous opportunities to surrender when they could have killed her. Or even chopped something off.
Whilst he's beaten her as early as the CW movie, and now he's challenging mutiple foes simultaneously each one who is superior to Ventress.
So I really don't see how a comparison is being made here.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'll tell you what's better logic.A>C
B> A (when backed up by D who himself is far superior to A)
Then yeah chances are B >> C
Chances are that thats completely wrong considering that we have evidence of C 8eing >> 8 (when 8 was 8acked up with E)
Athough you got A and 8 mixed up. A is supposed to 8e O8i-Wan, 8 is Opress and C is Ventress. Just 8ecause A is > 8, who is himself seemingly > C, does not mean that A > C. That would 8e an archetypal example of the ABC fallacy.
What makes it even worse is, as I said, the fact that C has smacked A around recently.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Besides the whole Fisto argument is based on A beat C seemingly easier than B did therefore A=C.That's a much much worse case of A>B>C where both A and B are greater than C, but we're making judgements on the easiness of their respective victories over C.
Very bad A>B>C logic especially when all those fights took place in completely different environments and circumstances.
There's nothing wrong with that line of argument.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Also regarding Ventress's CW series victory over Kenobi:Whilst he's beaten her as early as the CW movie, and now he's challenging mutiple foes simultaneously each one who is superior to Ventress.
So I really don't see how a comparison is being made here.
haermm
And this is opposed to O8i-Wan, who was clearly and o8viously pushing himself to the limit in that fight? As you pointed out, Filoni himself said that O8i-Wan was in an extremely focused, determined mindset and 'wasn't going to lose'. He was clearly spurred on 8y Adi Galia's death. You sir, are full of shit.
The CW movie is completely irrelevent at this point. 8oth of them have o8viously improved to the point where they are unrecognisa8le to the characters in that movie.
It's compara8le 8ecause she 8eat his ass while simultaneously fighting Anakin. It's the exact same situ8ion.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Doesn't matter because he's clearly above her now. In fact has been as early as the CW movie.
Then quit bringing up the fact that she defeated him on Cestus as evidence to support your argument that she's above Fisto. Double standards much?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Please enlighten me on these repeated occasions. I only remember one time where Ventress was clearly rage enhanced and where Anakin and Obi-Wan were clearly holding back (they gave her numerous opportunities to surrender when they could have killed her. Or even chopped something off.
Then you are LOST!
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah if we ignore that one of those times he was fighting off Grievous + magnaguards in a very confined space, and the other time he defeated Grievous in much shorter time than Fisto was able to.
Don't remember anything about MGs when Grievous nearly crushed Kenobi's head and ragdolled him numerous times. And BTW - GG was only utilizing TWO lightsabers - again, double standards.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Adi Gallia also held her own against Grievous quite well, actually kciking him back. And yet we saw what Opress did to her.
OMFG!!!!!! She kicked him? Holy ***king Schnikies!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!
To compare Obi-Wan, who admitted himself that he was well behind Fisto's potenital in combat prowess, to Fisto now, without having ANY idea whatsoever of where Fisto stands combat-wise at this point is ***king ridiculous. You are prompted to compare feats between the two combatants in the context of a similar point of time, if possible. In this case, the ONLY common denomiator between Kenobi and Fisto in a relatively close period of time is... you guessed it, General Grievous. And Fisto's demolition of Grievous outstrips Kenobi's performance against the General during that time period. I'm sorry DP, but contextual and chronological evidence indicates that Fisto and Kenobi are at the very least, very similar in combat prowess.
Now, were we to have a duel between Fisto and Maul/Savage/Ventress and he gets his ass handed to him (again in the case of Ventress... ala Kenobi the first time he fought her), then you would have more ground to stand on, but as it is right now... the evidence indicates otherwise.
Originally posted by NephthysThere's nothing wrong with that line of argument.
Then don't complain about A>B>C arguments. Obi-Wan stomped on Savage on stomped on Ventress.
Ergo Obi-Wan is clearly > Ventress.
That's a much better argument than early in the CW Fisto seemed to have a better time against Grievous than Obi-Wan ergo Fisto = Kenobi.