ROTS Kenobi vs. Zone Anakin

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
CW movie and CW Episode "Crisis on Naboo". Dooku's attacks Anakin with the Force plenty of times but can not take him out.

With Obi-Wan on the other hand, it just takes a mere flick of the wrist for Dooku to destroy him with the Force.

So now you tell me, who can tank Force attacks better, Obi-Wan or Anakin?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm saying IF YOUR CLAIMING that they both took the force push just as well then Obviously Anakin wasn't tanking force attacks as well as he usually can, so obviously Anakin wasn't as powerful as he usually is.

And going all out does not necessarily mean he was able to "Focus" all his power while going all out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes, in that fight, in that situation and in that scenario Ventress was the superior combatant.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ah right that wasn't you. Your the one who claimed Obi-Wan could macth Maul in the FORCE!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
It was hardly a planned counter Lol. Anakin almost killed Obi-Wan. He almost choked him to death. What did Obi-Wan do that was anywhere near as damaging to Anakin at that point? Nothing. So Anakin was winning the fight. But he just hadn't WON yet.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
No I've got the script to back me up. Your the one making stuff up.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And don't try and use my example against me FOOL!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ali took hits from Foreman ON PURPOSE! And then it was Foreman who was SO TIRED that Ali easily knocked him out.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes Obi-Wan is a defensive fighter and would give ground anyway, but in our example it was Anakin who was FORCING Obi-Wan backwards. He wasn't just voluntarily giving ground due to his style. He had no choice. And then it was Obi-Wan who was getting tired. Anakin wasn't tired at all and was probably only getting stronger.

Plus the kick to the face and the choke show Anakin coming much closer to taking Obi-Wan out than Vice Versa.

So Obi-Wan needed to get outside where the terrain was all over the place. He was never going to win the fight on flat ground.

Just the last bit I disagree with. It could be possible for anakin to win on flat ground, but it could also be possible that kenobi could win on flat ground. Your claim is too bias. Its like saying, "obi wan won on uneven ground, but any other time, anakin would win." What im trying to say is, if your the superior warrior, you should be able to win, regardless of the terrain. And is that not a fair statement?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Bingo!

Apart from rushing at Dooku when he was a PADAWAN, none of the examples you gave were combat specific.

So you have given Zero examples of JEDI KNIGHT Anakin making dumb combat moves as I knew you would. Whereas I've given you an example of Anakin's Rashness proving superior to Obi-Wan's more "sensible" approach in combat, and in the same exmaple Anakin outsmarted the enemy where Obi-Wan apparently could not.

Obi-Wan certainly keeps a Cooler head which is certainly beneficial in combat and intense scenarios.

But that doesn't make him smarter than Anakin. I've shown you how smart Anakin can be evn in his rashness.

And then you give me ONE single example that ultimately shows that anakin is smarter than kenobi!? C'mon man.

And even your example is not nearly sufficient enough! Obi wans trying to prevent anakin from making a risky move because it COULD result in many lives lost. And even though it turned out to be a success, Anakins move was still reckless, because of the fact that it was risky.

So dont even think of saying that anakin is smarter than obi wan, because your just not gonna win that argument.

Originally posted by mnat801
I never disagreed, just asked for an example.

No, YOU'RE the one claiming that anakin wasnt going all out. Its a really lame excuse to say that, "so obviously Anakin wasn't as powerful as he usually is", because if thats a valid reason, then anyone could say that in every single duel. So thats obviously not the case. And its clear in the fight that anakin was going all out, so dont give me that crap.

Hint.. When I put something in Capitals it's to make sure that part sticks in your head.. So let's try this again:

IF YOUR CLAIMING that Obi-Wan and Anakin tanked the force push equally in their fight THEN going by how well Anakin can tank Dooku's force attacks in comparison to Obi-Wan THEN THAT WOULD MEAN Anakin wasn't fighting at his best against Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by mnat801
Ok I dont know if I can believe anything you say now. In that fight, it couldnt be more clearer that kenobi and skywalker were superior to asajj, they had their swords at her throat. and the only reason why they didnt finish her off is because they had disarmed her. This proves that anakins force choke on kenobi doesnt give anakin the title of superior combatant. okay!? Have another look at the asajj fight if your not sure.

Yeah great except I never claimed she was superior to both of them together. Just that she was clearly the best performing combatant there in that fight at that time.

She knocked out Obi-Wan 8 seconds into the fight. It took both Anakin and Obi-Wan to beat her in Sabers, and she still managed to Force Choke them both.

Probably not their best performance, but that doesn't change the fact that in that fight in that situation she performed better than either of them.

Originally posted by mnat801
You really need to get your facts right, because i never said that either. I was the one saying it isnt proven that maul is more powerful in the force than kenobi.

I don't know why your trying to be clever playing with words here. You were clearly implying that Obi-Wan can best both Maul and Opress together in Sabers and that he's even a match for Maul in the Force.

Which is why in the Maul and Opress gauntlet you've just flat out said they get defeated by Obi-Wan alone in an all out. Just with his single Saber no less.

Originally posted by mnat801
Because as I recall, the most damaging part was the injuries that anakin suffered. And there definitely was skill involved in that. Because it seems to me that you're just taking all of anakins attacks into account.

Yeah he won with the final move by tricking him on an eneven terrain, and by Anakin making a dumb suicide move which he would only do while enraged. That would not be in character for Jedi Anakin at all.

Originally posted by mnat801
Okay so you've got the script to back you up, but not the film? Its funny because a script/ novel is not as legitimate as a film, because a readers interpretation of a book/script will be different to anothers. Hence the reason why imanigantion takes place when reading book. Where as a film has the facts put right in front of you. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that the script or novel is wrong, but instead showing that readers interpretation varies between others. So when you say you have the script to back you up, I say I have the film to back me up. = I win.

Yeah except the script is written by George Lucas, and in this case hardly contradicts the movie version of the fight at all. It only Compliments it.

So Lucas's words win. You lose.

Originally posted by mnat801
Please try to keep a cool head when in discussion. It doesn't matter who's example it is.

Was joking. If you had a cooler head you would have seen that.

Originally posted by mnat801
Yes, not a perfect example on Kenobis behalf, but still a good example. Doesn't really work on your behalf, because Ali ended up winning and he was obviously the better warrior. Tiredness doesn't change the course of superiority.

Oh really? So Foreman being all tired out and as a result put down in one punch did not make him inferior to Ali??

You don't get the analogy at all. Ali was the one taking hits, Foreman was the one who tired out.

Whilst in this case Obi-Wan was the one on the defensive, and it was also Obi-Wan who was all tired out. Anakin was only getting stronger. Heck Anakin could have fought the whole fight all over again.

Originally posted by mnat801
With that being said, how come anakin wasnt able to finish obi wan off?

Same reason Yoda didn't finish Dooku off. They needed more time. In fact Dooku was doing much better against Yoda than Kenobi was against Anakin while the fight was on even ground.

At least Dooku wasn't getting choked almost to death and kicked in the face and constantly being FORCED Backwards and almost trapped again and again.

Originally posted by mnat801
If its so obvious and so clear that anakin was superior and getting the better of obi wan in the fight, how come it wasnt an obvious win for him?

He would have won on even ground. That's why Obi-Wan ran away to where the terrain was all over the place.

Originally posted by mnat801
Just the last bit I disagree with. It could be possible for anakin to win on flat ground, but it could also be possible that kenobi could win on flat ground. Your claim is too bias. Its like saying, "obi wan won on uneven ground, but any other time, anakin would win." What im trying to say is, if your the superior warrior, you should be able to win, regardless of the terrain. And is that not a fair statement?

Anakin was the more powerful duelist which he proved when the fight was on even ground.

And that works both ways. If Obi-Wan was a match for Anakin why did he have to go to where the terrain was all over the place and try to trick him into defeat?? Since according to you the superior warrior can win anywhere!

Originally posted by mnat801
Wow. I just gave you like 5 examples off the top of my head, and you completely ignored them all, just because it wasnt combat specific. Who said it could only be limited to combat specific decisions!?

No you only gave 1 example of Anakin being dumb. And that was as a frustrated padawan. You've not given EVEN ONE Example of Anakin being dumb after he was Knighted.

Your other examples like "Oh Anakin is dumb because he turned to the darkside" is absolutely nothing to do with intellect, unless your claiming every single Jedi is smarter than every single Sith just because of their choice to stay on the Lightside.

And yet it was Palpatine who Outsmarted ALL THE Jedi!

Originally posted by mnat801
And then you give me ONE single example that ultimately shows that anakin is smarter than kenobi!? C'mon man.

Well that's One more than you! There's plenty of examples throughout the CW. It was Anakin's idea to freeze his team in Carbonite so their life signs won't be detected. It was Anakin who quickly determined how to defeat the Zillo beast. The examples are endless.

Originally posted by mnat801
And even your example is not nearly sufficient enough! Obi wans trying to prevent anakin from making a risky move because it COULD result in many lives lost. And even though it turned out to be a success, Anakins move was still reckless, because of the fact that it was risky.

Urm actually he was smart enough to take advantage of the cloaked ship to defeat Admiral Trench. Obi-Wan's plan would have kept the whole planet occupied. He in fact SAVED MANY Lives!

This was a prime example of how Anakin being so called "reckless" was not something that made him dumb. Not at all. He actually ended up being a more cunning warrior than anyone on the Council. And his so called "recklessness" gave him a constant success rate in battle.

Originally posted by mnat801
So dont even think of saying that anakin is smarter than obi wan, because your just not gonna win that argument.

LOL This is a joke. You've brought nothing to this argument except "Oh urmm Anakin turned to the darkside because he was dumb."

I've proved Anakin is EASILY as smart as Obi-Wan. Probably actually smarter!

The thing is people think that Obi-wans performance was impressive just because he stood up to Anakin in a sword fight. But:

1. His style enables him to have a chance against everyone in lightsaber combat.

2. Script confirms Anakin was forcing back Obi-Wan

3. Anakin>Obi-Wan in the force as DP has stated already.

Then there's also the fact that it's z0neAnakin, who is likely on par with Yoda (more or less) who would destroy Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom

Then there's also the fact that it's z0neAnakin, who is likely on par with Yoda (more or less) who would destroy Obi-Wan.

Probably not Yoda. According to the script Yoda even battered Sidious in their Lightsaber duel. So Yoda was by far the best duelist of the OT/PT era.

But I would think a Saber fight between Zonakin and Sidious would be a good one.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
But I would think a Saber fight between Zonakin and Sidious would be a good one.

Only if you think that Sidious > Mace/Dooku in sabers, which is arguable.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Only if you think that Sidious > Mace/Dooku in sabers, which is arguable.

Hmm well Mace and Sidious were pretty even. I can see ROTS Anakin being approx on par with them in Sabers.

I could see Dooku's Makashi fending off Sidious's power strikes for a while, but eventually Dooku would tire. Sidious would not due to his vast force reserves.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hmm well Mace and Sidious were pretty even. I can see ROTS Anakin being approx on par with them in Sabers.

I could see Dooku's Makashi fending off Sidious's power strikes for a while, but eventually Dooku would tire. Sidious would not due to his vast force reserves.

They're all close that's for sure. But Sidious lasted right under 2 minutes before being disarmed I believe. Dooku looked like he could atleast go on for 2 minutes more against Yoda.

I see no evidence that makes me believe Dooku would lose to Sidious. He's probably the most skilled duelist apart from Yoda in the PT.

Mace's Vaapad puts him above Sidious and Dooku in sabers IMO.

Yoda>z0neAnakin>Mace>Dooku>Sidious in sabers IMO

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
They're all close that's for sure. But Sidious lasted right under 2 minutes before being disarmed I believe. Dooku looked like he could atleast go on for 2 minutes more against Yoda.

I don't really go by how long a fight lasts tbh.

Dooku didn't last long against Anakin, yet he almost defeated him with that kick that sent him flying slamming against the wall.

Mace and Sidious are both aggressive and pretty offensive fighters, so their fight was never going to last very long.

But the novel makes it pretty clear that they were pretty dead even. Only shatterpoint gave Mace the edge.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I see no evidence that makes me believe Dooku would lose to Sidious. He's probably the most skilled duelist apart from Yoda in the PT.

Well the fact that Sidious was pretty even with a Mace using Vapaad, and the fact that Dooku would most likely fend off Sidious's powerful strikes, prolonging the duel, which would probably benefit Sidious in the end with his greater Force reserves.

Just my opinion anyway.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I don't really go by how long a fight lasts tbh.

Dooku didn't last long against Anakin, yet he almost defeated him with that kick that sent him flying slamming against the wall.

Mace and Sidious are both aggressive and pretty offensive fighters, so their fight was never going to last very long.

But the novel makes it pretty clear that they were pretty dead even. Only shatterpoint gave Mace the edge.

Well the fact that Sidious was pretty even with a Mace using Vapaad, and the fact that Dooku would most likely fend off Sidious's powerful strikes, prolonging the duel, which would probably benefit Sidious in the end with his greater Force reserves.

Just my opinion anyway.

We'll have to see how Sidious does against the brothers before making accurate statements about his saber skills. Other than that I hope they bring up a Dooku v Mace fight or something.

Kenobi beating Anakin was simply Deus Ex Machina; nothing more.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
We'll have to see how Sidious does against the brothers before making accurate statements about his saber skills. Other than that I hope they bring up a Dooku v Mace fight or something.

Alright what is this Zone Anakin?
Obi Wan beat Anakin end of story.
Anakin kept backing him up?

Big deal, he was luring Anakin into a vulnerable position.
If Anakin wasn't blinded by rage and anger he would have seen what Obi Wan was doing.
OK he was getting stonger?
All that strength and power he still didn't win.

Where is he more cunning at?
He Force jumped at a Master on the High Ground.
How dumb is that?

Plus he Force choked his wife!!!
Power to save Pade'me?
Looks like to kill Pade'me to me.

He turned to the Dark side too soon and too easy
He overwhelmed Obi Wan I'll give him full credit for that!!!
But to say he was smarter and more cunning?

I don't see it and zone Anakin don't see it either.

The two gods everyone thinks is Anakin SkyWalker/Vader and Luke SkyWalker.
I just tell you like it is,the Hype is around these two wanna be "gods". lol 😄 😄 😄

^ Maybe you should read a statement from George Lucas.

Maybe you should know that I know these two wanna be's are the stars of the show and It is always
been the Skywalkers to Lucas . No body touches or writes any story about them without his
approval.

I get it, I get that they are so hyped up there that no other Jedi average or other wise
gets to shine,instead they get killed off in scenes that don't make sense or get so called
stomped by these wanna be's.

Much respect to Lucas for giving us Star Wars.
I understand the rise and fall of Anakin .

Is the next 3 triologies are gonna be about the rise and fall of Luke SkyWalker?
Will we see the Vongs
The death of Chewbacca?
Or even better the return of the Emperor ?

Eh... Based you kind of walked into that one.
No disrespect intended.
Just having a lil fun with this zone Anakin thing. lol

But seriously I know.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
Alright what is this Zone Anakin?
Obi Wan beat Anakin end of story.
Anakin kept backing him up?

Big deal, he was luring Anakin into a vulnerable position.
If Anakin wasn't blinded by rage and anger he would have seen what Obi Wan was doing.
OK he was getting stonger?
All that strength and power he still didn't win.

Where is he more cunning at?
He Force jumped at a Master on the High Ground.
How dumb is that?

Plus he Force choked his wife!!!
Power to save Pade'me?
Looks like to kill Pade'me to me.

He turned to the Dark side too soon and too easy
He overwhelmed Obi Wan I'll give him full credit for that!!!
But to say he was smarter and more cunning?

I don't see it and zone Anakin don't see it either.

Originally posted by juyomaster34
The two gods everyone thinks is Anakin SkyWalker/Vader and Luke SkyWalker.
I just tell you like it is,the Hype is around these two wanna be "gods". lol 😄 😄 😄

Endless Windu wank.

Originally posted by NTJack0
Endless Windu wank.