Ozy/Comedian vs Midnighter/Batman

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
So his body being hit in midair, and its subsequent twisting from the impact to slow the bullet down, plus the fact that a lot of energy was absorbed by his flesh as the bullet penetrated his palm...you're not taking that into account?

Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

You haven't proven that the bullet stopped within 1 inch.

Originally posted by h1a8
Flashes don't operate as bullet trajectories in straight lines. Thus it was the bullet's motion shown.

What? It's muzzle flash. lol

Originally posted by h1a8
Doesn't matter as the bullet is stopped within 1 inch stopping distance. Who cares if he twisted after the bullet is stopped or that the bullet penetrated his hand a couple of mm? It takes more than 3tons of force to stop the bullet they way Ozy did.

It...kinda does matter. Let me break it down

As the hand that Ozy used is attached to his body...it should be regarded as one system.

So even if his hand only travelled 1 inch to stop it (which is debateable, but we'll leave that for the moment)...the fact that his body moved as well, shows that the distance the body travelled was also due to absorbing the bullet's energy and stopping it.

Therefore, you cannot just take the hand's travelling distance in isolation. You also have to take into account the body's travelling distance, as it is attached to Ozy's body. In fact, it could be said he used his whole body to stop the bullet, which is what you need to take into account in your equations. It just so happened the point of impact was the hand.

Batman punching bullets out of the air shows more strength, as the bulletproof gloves, and lack of mid air acrobatics, shows that he tanked the bullets head on without 'rolling with the punches', as it were.

So whatever strength level you come up with using your equations, it only means that Batman is stronger, as his ligaments and arms took the entire strain of the bullet.

The only way he could be seen as stopping the bullet with just his hand, was if he put his hand out, caught the bullet, and didn't move.

Originally posted by KingD19
The only way he could be seen as stopping the bullet with just his hand, was if he put his hand out, caught the bullet, and didn't move.

Exactly.

Let's use this example.

Manny Pacquioa throws a punch at my head. Its a hook, coming for the side of my head. Its already at max speed, because Manny's punches are that fast.

Ozy: as the punch hits the side of my jaw, I roll my head around, and twist acrobatically in the air.

Batman: I meet his punch by ramming my chin into his fist. Without shifting my feet or snapping my head back.

Who is stronger?

Bats, because he didn't roll with the punch or move his own body in conjunction to disperse impact force.

Originally posted by KingD19
Bats, because he didn't roll with the punch or move his own body in conjunction to disperse impact force.

Exactly. Skill is with Ozy, no doubt. Rolling with the punches is a very good addition that Western boxers brought to Muay Thai. There's a reason Thai Muay Thai practitioners have a short shelf life to their Western counterparts - tanking punches to the head is stupid.

But strength? If you're going to try and use equations and science to comic books, then you might as well be consistent.

MT practitioners have a short fight life because they fight young and often, much more so than American boxers, at least.

They barely focus on punches, anyway, because kicks score a lot more.

Yah, maybe I should have used a different MA in my example hehe.

Point I was trying to put across, is that in other MAs (not all), when a punch comes for you, you redirect it, you roll with the punch, you use your enemy's force against you etc etc.

In MT, you block with your shin. Or your forearm, or your head. There's very little redirection going on, imo. You take the full force with some part of your anatomy.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
It...kinda does matter. Let me break it down

As the hand that Ozy used is attached to his body...it should be regarded as one system.

So even if his hand only travelled 1 inch to stop it (which is debateable, but we'll leave that for the moment)...the fact that his body moved as well, shows that the distance the body travelled was also due to absorbing the bullet's energy and stopping it.

Therefore, you cannot just take the hand's travelling distance in isolation. You also have to take into account the body's travelling distance, as it is attached to Ozy's body. In fact, it could be said he used his whole body to stop the bullet, which is what you need to take into account in your equations. It just so happened the point of impact was the hand.

Batman punching bullets out of the air shows more strength, as the bulletproof gloves, and lack of mid air acrobatics, shows that he tanked the bullets head on without 'rolling with the punches', as it were.

So whatever strength level you come up with using your equations, it only means that Batman is stronger, as his ligaments and arms took the entire strain of the bullet.

Batman used bulletproof gloves which absorbed the impact of the bullet. The gloves supplied a stopping force to the bullet. Ozy hands were the only source the bullets touched. But I understand where you are coming from. Basically it was part of Ozy's durability that absorbed some of the impact and not his strength alone. So that would mean he is slightly bulletproof, which is even better in defending my case as I'll show below. So I concede my argument of Ozy being able to exert more than 3 tons of force due to ONLY strength.

Now since Ozy caught that bullet, he proved to be a grade A fighter of the highest type. This takes an incredible level of skill, speed, strength, and durability to achieve. And a mere human can ONLY acquired those level of things through mastery of fighting.

IMO, I doubt Batman has the ability to duplicate that feat. Also that feat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any feat of ability by a mere human I have ever seen in comics. It is truly a superhuman feat indeed.

^ nope

Originally posted by iceman24567
^ nope

Prove by giving me an example (in comics) that goes against the suspension of belief that a human catching a bullet is a supreme master of fighting.

In other words, show me a case where someone performed a skill feat on that magnitude in which they WEREN'T a supreme fighter.

Otherwise, we accept the suspension of disbelief and COMMON SENSE.

Originally posted by h1a8
Prove by giving me an example (in comics) that goes against the suspension of belief that a human catching a bullet is a supreme master of fighting.

In other words, show me a case where someone performed a skill feat on that magnitude in which they WEREN'T a supreme fighter.

Otherwise, we accept the suspension of disbelief and COMMON SENSE.

I actually remember h1 claiming Ozy had precog since he knew what Rorschach was doing before he actually struck even though common sense would have told you Ozy saw his reflection 😐. Common sense? LOL

At best, catching a bullet shows hand speed, hand-eye coordination and durability....and while those are useful in a fight, having them doesn't automatically make you an A-list fighter.

Originally posted by iceman24567
I actually remember h1 claiming Ozy had precog since he knew what Rorschach was doing before he actually struck even though common sense would have told you Ozy saw his reflection 😐. Common sense? LOL

Ozy didn't see his reflection, that wasn't metal he was holding in his hand.

Originally posted by iceman24567
Its common sense that he lacks feat to be on the level of real A grade martial artist. How many A grade martial artists did he fight? None. High end feat is a high end feat hes not Batman level. The Watchmen fought scrubs Batman fights actual highly trained assassins with real superhuman attributes. Batman beats Ozy silly while blindfolded. If you want to highball Batman has hurt metahumans with his punches and kicks. Batman beating Ozy is COMMON sense which you obviously lack.

Yet you still haven't proven

Prove by giving me an example (in comics) that goes against the suspension of belief that a human catching a bullet is a supreme master of fighting.

In other words, show me a case where someone performed a skill feat on that magnitude in which they WEREN'T a supreme fighter.

Otherwise, we accept the suspension of disbelief and COMMON SENSE.

Originally posted by Silent Master
At best, catching a bullet shows hand speed, hand-eye coordination and durability....and while those are useful in a fight, having them doesn't automatically make you an A-list fighter.

And yet none of those things on that level can be acquired WITHOUT the mastery of fighting. It's not like Ozy practiced bullet catching from a beginner (he would be dead trying).

Originally posted by h1a8
Ozy didn't see his reflection, that wasn't metal he was holding in his hand.

Originally posted by iceman24567
He did see his reflection it doesnt matter if it was metal or not.

If it wasn't metal or reflective material then there is no reflection to see.