The Tulak Hord example..... Well, that requires raw power. You have absolutely no proof any Zeison Sha could replicate that.
Give us the quote from your source that is NOT KoToR 2 (as that pertains solely to that era) Preferably a guide book or something. Then page number.
At that point, you argument stands.
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And i can give you plenty of reasons why the Zeison Sha are the most powerful order of lightside force sensitives. Reason number 1' they have never suffered a casualty during the Great Jedi Perge and ultimately Survived' even though the empire had the technological advantage' the same jedi perge that was ordered by darth sidious' and one that torn the Jedi order and the Matukai apart putting them both into near extinction 🙂 . The zeison sha were fighting the empire for decades after the imperial occupation of yannibar' and even with their lack of technology (such as speeder bikes tanks ships and man made sheilds) they still drove the empire off their planet without casualties on both the Zeison Sha Initiates and the Zeison Sha warriors not requiring the highest rank of the zeison sha to approach the battlefeild 📖. Reason 2 why they are the most powerful order of Light Side Force Sensitives is that. The Zeison Sha warriors were masters of telekinesis and telekinetic powers' telekinetic powers that surpass many of the jedi's force capabilities. Example Tulak Hord. Tulak Hord was a master of Telekinesis and was strong enough to pull down things ranging up to assault ships to assault carriers with little trouble destroying them in the process. That telekinetic ability was fairly common among the Zeison sha warriors since they were also known Masters of that art and also one of the reasons why the empire fled the yanibar system in search of other force orders that be can targeted for persecution 📖. Reason 3 they havent shown the highest rank of the Zeison Sha order. The higher the rank in the Zeison Sha the more powerful the indivisual will be in telekinetic powers physically and in the force. There are countless Reason why there are the most powerful' reasons that will be witnessed in the future 📖 and regarding evidence? the evidence has already been revealed' but if you want to say that its a opinion' depending on how high its disagreeable. then you should investigate what the person is stating to later find truth or deceit in what he has shown as evidence or or stated. there is no CLAIMS to anything i say 😐.
You still didn't present any evidence of their capability in any aspect of the force but telekinesis.
And again, please provide evidence for your claims regarding the Zeison Sha, otherwise we can't take you seriously. As I said, it's you that is making the claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, so it's you that must provide the evidence to support your claim.
Originally posted by PwnedNo that will not be necessary 🙁 . KOTOR 2 is already proof enough since the people who created the game put the exact quote in the Zeison Sha Warrior's armor description. Giving The Zeison Sha a brief description as being Survivalist who can make the best out of any given situation. And natural born Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers 😐. I have no PROOF? do you know how to decipher Metaphores and Allegories aside from Understanding literacy to even contradict this thread? because it seems very likely you will only understand literacy as living evidence' and anything said in another way that is not within the realm of that 1 area is considered opinionated and theoretical if not seen exactly' Since thats your way of thinking that would mean you are surrounded by the clouds of ignorance 😐. its has already been quoted by Khem Val that only a master of telekinesis can pull down assault ships and assault carriers with ease (such as demonstrated by Tulak Hord even though he was more known to be the greatest lightsaber master of the Sith lords rather then a master of telekinesis) And Since the Zeison Sha warriors were already known to be Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers. Put the little pieces together and what does that mean 🙂 ? ******** this is fun. 😄
The Tulak Hord example..... Well, that requires raw power. You have absolutely no proof any Zeison Sha could replicate that.Give us the quote from your source that is NOT KoToR 2 (as that pertains solely to that era) Preferably a guide book or something. Then page number.
At that point, you argument stands.
Originally posted by KylarWhiteI already Presented evidence that the Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic abilities far succeed the Jedi's Force offensive and defensive capabilities' which is why they are known to be survivalist and didnt suffer a casualty during the great jedi perge and ultimately pushed the imperial invaders back even with their lack of technology. And anyone that dosent take me seriously thinks i could have been speculating about everything? thats fine with me 🙂 they want to call it a opinion now' but once its revealed in the future all the people will end up looking stupid but will still want to debate it to avoid looking like a complete ignorant indivisual 🙂
You still didn't present any evidence of their capability in any aspect of the force but telekinesis.And again, please provide evidence for your claims regarding the Zeison Sha, otherwise we can't take you seriously. As I said, it's you that is making the claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, so it's you that must provide the evidence to support your claim.
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
I already Presented evidence that the Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic abilities far succeed the Jedi's Force offensive and defensive capabilities' which is why they are known to be survivalist and didnt suffer a casualty during the great jedi perge and ultimately pushed the imperial invaders back even with their lack of technology. And anyone that dosent take me seriously thinks i could have been speculating about everything? thats fine with me 🙂 they want to call it a opinion now' but once its revealed in the future all the people will end up looking stupid but will still want to debate it to avoid looking like a complete ignorant indivisual 🙂
You claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, with no evidence, rattling off random claims of their capabilities that you expect us to just fall down on our knees and adore. How are we supposed to take you seriously? Present us with evidence of their capabilities, and things would be different.
About this supposedly incredible telekinetic shield you proclaim singles them out as the best, other people on the thread have revealed Jedi, or other force users, just as capable as performing this feat, who aren't exceptionally powerful. And again, telekinesis is only one area of the force. To be the most powerful order, the Zeison Sha would have to be exceptionally proficient in several areas of the force, yet all you claim concerns telekinesis.
And by evidence, I'd like to think you know that means actual quotes and the like. Furthermore, one of the few quotes you've shown, you got wrong, which isn't suggesting anything positive about your claims.
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic......
No that will not be necessary 🙁 . KOTOR 2 is already proof enough since the people who created the game put the exact quote in the Zeison Sha Warrior's armor description. Giving The Zeison Sha a brief description as being Survivalist who can make the best out of any given situation. And natural born Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers 😐. I have no PROOF? do you know how to decipher Metaphores and Allegories aside from Understanding literacy to even contradict this thread? because it seems very likely you will only understand literacy as living evidence' and anything said in another way that is not within the realm of that 1 area is considered opinionated and theoretical if not seen exactly' Since thats your way of thinking that would mean you are surrounded by the clouds of ignorance 😐. its has already been quoted by Khem Val that only a master of telekinesis can pull down assault ships and assault carriers with ease (such as demonstrated by Tulak Hord even though he was more known to be the greatest lightsaber master of the Sith lords rather then a master of telekinesis) And Since the Zeison Sha warriors were already known to be Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic Powers. Put the little pieces together and what does that mean 🙂 ? ******** this is fun. 😄
No. Most of them would not have the raw power to pull down a cruiser, it would deplete their force reserves too quickly. Or are they all as strong as freaking Starkiller?
Where did you even get the thing about Hord? I have never heard that.
If I am so dumb as to not understand metaphors and allegories, dumb them down. But considering how you HAVEN'T posted evidence, even in a metaphor or allegory, means that now you are just making personal attacks so you can hide your lack of knowledge.
No, KoToR 2 is not proof enough, as that pertains to that era. Give me a quote that pertains to the other eras, which you in your obviously boundless knowledge can certainly provide. That way you can prove they are the most powerful eve.... Oh wait.
Originally posted by KylarWhiteI dont EXPECT you or anyone else to do anything lets get that clear first. Another thing is' evidence comes in 3 forms' Explanatory Literal and Metaphoric. There are many powerful Jedi that are capable of creating shields that are of something similar in quality but not of a duplication' but people sometimes confuse the meanings to the words Similar and Replication.
You claim they're the most powerful order of light side force sensitives, with no evidence, rattling off random claims of their capabilities that you expect us to just fall down on our knees and adore. How are we supposed to take you seriously? Present us with evidence of their capabilities, and things would be different.About this supposedly incredible telekinetic shield you proclaim singles them out as the best, other people on the thread have revealed Jedi, or other force users, just as capable as performing this feat, who aren't exceptionally powerful. And again, telekinesis is only one area of the force. To be the most powerful order, the Zeison Sha would have to be exceptionally proficient in several areas of the force, yet all you claim concerns telekinesis.
And by evidence, I'd like to think you know that means actual quotes and the like. Furthermore, one of the few quotes you've shown, you got wrong, which isn't suggesting anything positive about your claims.
Some Jedi are capable of using the force to create a defensive wall to block incoming attacks temporarily' but the wall later gets overwhelmed by large amounts of Blaster fire.(Provided that the Shields the jedi create for defense takes a drain on their spiritual energy that continues to grow overtime while the technique is in effect and doubles when attacks begin to mount up against it' dispersing the shield shortly afterwards) And some jedi are capable of using the force to create spheres for defense but later gets overpowered by small amounts of Force attacks' depending on if the user can withstand the energy depletion that comes with every hit against the sphere.
Also i never said their shields were incredible' that part "incredible" is what you added. It was said the Zeison Sha Warriors were masters of telekinetics' being strong enough to make a physical shield that covered the entire outer surface of their body' covering all possible openings in defense that could be exploited' a shield that is indestructible' and later evidenced as a fact when a unidentified jedi gives his description on the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield describing it as using the force to wrap around themselfs. Also the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield is confirmed to be as described previously' in their history it is said that the Zeison Sha Survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. Or in other words the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' due to their higher telekinetic defensive capabilities.
You saying im rattling off random claims with no EVIDENCE? thats coming from a person who will wait for the evidence to present itself in literacy in order to make it out as a factual confirmation. Rather then investigate what's been said and shown as evidence giving a independant observation and later discovering whether it's true or not putting all the pieces of the puzzle together solely using one's perception' dont make me laugh 😆.
The only quote that i mentioned that wasnt said exactly conserning the Zeison Sha was the one made by Bodo Baas. even though i incorrectly put Bodo's statement in' the meaning to what both I and Bodo baas made was of the same meaning' (But said indirectly) the Zeison Sha are Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic powers and their capabilities in this area surpass those of most jedi in history.
And when it comes to the Zeison Sha being the Most powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives this is a fact. i'll Sight some specific examples using the 3 Force organizations that target 1 aspect of abilities' such as. The Jedi. The Matukai. The Zeison Sha.
The Jedi focuses primarily on reaching true Understanding of the Force as well as achieving the spiritual perfection while unlocking as many unique spiritual capabilities in the process while creating a following for the younger members of their order to do so in the future. while some of their order lack that mindset the jedi teach in a multitude of different areas to match the criteria of what their students hope to achieve.
The Matukai primarily focuses reaching the Physical Perfection as well keeping a mindset to avoiding the Fall to the Dark Side' keeping one's self pure. The Matukai has made considerable progress twords the goal of reaching physical perfection and have done so in many cases reaching near physical perfection' even going so far as a order to build up and draw out force sensitivity in a indivisual who failed to be seen as a any form of embodyment in the Force' doing so by using meditative Martial Arts' and using exrtacise as another form of meditation.
The Zeison Sha Primarily focuses on the Mindset of Independance and Self Sufficency and Assisting Those In Need' (But without drawing too much attention to one's self) Provided that they also place their focuses on Telekinesis and other Telekinetic capabilities in hopes to reach the Mental perfection and have done so in many cases previously stated and one's not seen yet' but notable cases' Yanibar and The Great Jedi Perge.
When the 1 Force organization that targeted the aspect of mental abilities surpass the opposing order aspect of spiritual capabilities what does that naturally mean? the order that targeted mental aspects of abilities (Zeison Sha) are more powerful then the opposing order that targeted spiritual capabilities (Jedi) due to their mental abilities surpassing what the opposing order were capable of. you dont need to be the most powerful in all areas overall to be more powerful' as demonstrated in the example earlier.
Originally posted by PwnedIts not raw power. And where did i get the statement about Tulak hord being a Master Of Telekinesis rather then just being The Greatest Lightsaber Master? I got the Statement from Khem Val' Tulak hord's Dashade servant and fellow warrior. Khem Val quoted that Tulak hord would bring down ships the size of the endar spire and larger with ease' Khem Val stating that Tulak Hord was a Master of Telekinesis. Also Telekinesis requires the brain's energy to be used' not requiring raw power or spiritual energy to do so.
......No. Most of them would not have the raw power to pull down a cruiser, it would deplete their force reserves too quickly. Or are they all as strong as freaking Starkiller?
Where did you even get the thing about Hord? I have never heard that.
If I am so dumb as to not understand metaphors and allegories, dumb them down. But considering how you HAVEN'T posted evidence, even in a metaphor or allegory, means that now you are just making personal attacks so you can hide your lack of knowledge.
No, KoToR 2 is not proof enough, as that pertains to that era. Give me a quote that pertains to the other eras, which you in your obviously boundless knowledge can certainly provide. That way you can prove they are the most powerful eve.... Oh wait.
In other words the Zeison Sha Warriors would not deplete a vast reserve of their force energy bringing down assault carriers. And no not all Zeison Sha are capable of that Telekinetic feat' The Zeison Sha initiates are not capable of doing the feat previously stated' only the Zeison Sha Warriors and Zeison Sha Elite Warriors are capable of that telekinetic feat. and when it comes not posting evidence and KOTOR 2 not being proof enough for you? then i dont know what else to say. The Zeison Sha were around since 4,000BBY i dont know what else i can dig up thats authorized. Enough evidence has been presented' its just a matter on who will believe it and who wont.
Please provide said quotes.
EDIT: I forogt you never do.
According to Khem Val when the Inquisitor sees the ruins of the Endar Spire, "The great Tulak Hord once pulled a ship this size from the sky."
Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree.
Enough evidence has been presented' its just a matter on who will believe it and who wont.
In that case, no one will believe you.
Originally posted by GenomeFrozenerOh now your saying its true to a DEGREE? w.o.w you just proved what i was saying about you earlier..... pathetic. I do edit my post but you dont read that either.
Please provide said quotes.EDIT: I forogt you never do.
Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree.
Originally posted by GenomeFrozenerYep thats your opinion stick with it.
Please provide said quotes.EDIT: I forogt you never do.
Hmm, at least it's true to a degree. But then again, the one who's saying the quote is a huge Tulak loyalist and thus, could be lying to a degree.
In that case, no one will believe you.
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Oh now your saying its true to a DEGREE? w.o.w you just proved what i was saying about you earlier..... pathetic. I do edit my post but you dont read that either.
It shows that Tulak was a telekinesis master. However, his quoted feat of pulling ships could be biased as the quoter is a fanatic of him. Do you always personally attack those who disagree with you?
Originally posted by GenomeFrozenerOH now we are dealing with mr COULD-BE now EH? hehehehehehe' and attack? wasnt that what you were doing earlier?
It shows that Tulak was a telekinesis master. However, his quoted feat of pulling ships could be biased as the quoter is a fanatic of him. Do you always personally attack those who disagree with you?
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Now we are dealing with COULD-BE now?
Yes, "could be's" based on actual fact's and proof. Khem Val was no more than former servant of Tulak who idolized him.
Khem Val, also known as Shadow Killer or Devourer, was a Dashade servant and warrior of the Sith Lord Tulak Hord and centuries later Darth Nox.
the more his master conquered, the more he feasted and an unusual bond formed between the Sith Lord and the Shadow Killer.
Khem Val viewed Kallig and the current Sith as unworthy of continuing Tulak Hord's legacy, and vowed to devour him or her when his powers returned.
Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And yet you still dont get it do you? even though i thought i made myself clear the first time. There was NO exact quote from any character in star wars explaining what the zeison sha warriors were capable of. Only the in game description in Star Wars Knights Of The Old Republic II The Sith Lords Zeison Sha Warrior armor's description and it reads. The Zeison Sha warriors were unmatched in telekinetic force powers and strong enough to make a physical sheild using the mind' it was described as using the force to wrap around themselfs. (A.K.A sheilds that surrounds the entire surface of the body' NOT using Force walls or force spheres for defense that later get overwhelmed by blaster fire and force attacks) and do you want me to give you the whole description? even though the sentence of note has already been revealed?
Yes, I very much do want the whole description.
It's the basis of all your statements, after all.
Also, 'strong enough to make physical shields using the mind' doesn't mean the shields can't be overwhelmed or it's better than anyone else's physical TK force shields. It just means... they have the ability. That's all.
You've got a little info there, and then you jump strait past what's there into major assumptions.
Unless you can put the whole description and it actually says what you imply, you're out on an unsupported limb/
I already Presented evidence that the Zeison Sha warrior's telekinetic abilities far succeed the Jedi's Force offensive and defensive capabilities' which is why they are known to be survivalist and didnt suffer a casualty during the great jedi perge and ultimately pushed the imperial invaders back even with their lack of technology. And anyone that dosent take me seriously thinks i could have been speculating about everything? thats fine with me 🙂 they want to call it a opinion now' but once its revealed in the future all the people will end up looking stupid but will still want to debate it to avoid looking like a complete ignorant indivisual 🙂
You ASSUME their abilities far exceed the Jedi's (and yea, their TK may be better because they focus on hit more, but that's not the same as being overall better) which is why you ASSUME there was no casualties, even though nothing said no casualties.
Also, how do you figure people will look stupid? Right now, there is not canon material that supports your assumptions. Even if new material happens to come out, it doesn't change we're making judgement on known information and unless your quote from KotoR II says a lot more than I suspect, that you're going well beyond the quotes.
I very much want to see this KotoR II quote in full! If you do so and it backs your claims, then I'll apologize and admit it.