The Most Powerful order of Light Side Force Sensitives.

Originally posted by Q99
Yes, I very much do want the whole description.

It's the basis of all your statements, after all.

Also, 'strong enough to make physical shields using the mind' doesn't mean the shields can't be overwhelmed or it's better than anyone else's physical TK force shields. It just means... they have the ability. That's all.

You've got a little info there, and then you jump strait past what's there into major assumptions.

Unless you can put the whole description and it actually says what you imply, you're out on an unsupported limb/

You ASSUME their abilities far exceed the Jedi's (and yea, their TK may be better because they focus on hit more, but that's not the same as being overall better) which is why you ASSUME there was no casualties, even though nothing said no casualties.

Also, how do you figure people will look stupid? Right now, there is not canon material that supports your assumptions. Even if new material happens to come out, it doesn't change we're making judgement on known information and unless your quote from KotoR II says a lot more than I suspect, that you're going well beyond the quotes.

I very much want to see this KotoR II quote in full! If you do so and it backs your claims, then I'll apologize and admit it.

The outer rim planet yanibar was home of the Zeison Sha, who developed their force powers as a means of surviving the harsh planet. Zeison Sha Stress independance and survival as well as assistance to those in need.

Thats the whole description even though i already told you the sentence of note has already been revealed.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
Ok it reads. The Zeison Sha were unmatched in Telekinetic Force powers' and powerful combatants. Their fortified garments are somewhat restrictive, but do not interfere with their use of the force. they can be upgraded with some underlays.

The outer rim planet yanibar was home of the Zeison Sha, who developed their force powers as a means of surviving the harsh planet. Zeison Sha Stress independance and survival as well as assistance to those in need.

Thats the whole description even though i already told you the sentence of note has already been revealed.

Hah, exactly!

None of that says they suffered no casualties during the purge, or that their TK shields can't be breached/are different than Jedi TK shields, or that their overall strength is higher than the Jedi, only that they were powerful combatants with powerful TK.

I'm glad we have this settled.

Originally posted by Q99
Hah, exactly!

None of that says they suffered no casualties during the purge, or that their TK shields can't be breached/are different than Jedi TK shields, or that their overall strength is higher than the Jedi, only that they were powerful combatants with powerful TK.

I'm glad we have this settled.

My interent is being shutdown for a week so i wont be able to reply to this thread and others untill i come back.

Thank God.

You're welcome.

Why do you never my answer my serious prayers?

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
No. Its specifically told in the Zeison Sha's history' that the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' stating that there were no casualties for all ranks in the Zeison Sha. (Zeison Sha Initiate) (Zeison Sha Warrior) (Zeison Sha Elite Warrior) what are you goin on about?

That wasn't in the quote you posted.

If you have information, post the direct quote. That's not in Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force or KotoR 2.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic

Also i never said their shields were incredible' that part "incredible" is what you added. It was said the Zeison Sha Warriors were masters of telekinetics' being strong enough to make a physical shield that covered the entire outer surface of their body' covering all possible openings in defense that could be exploited' a shield that is indestructible' and later evidenced as a fact when a unidentified jedi gives his description on the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield describing it as using the force to wrap around themselfs. Also the Zeison Sha Warrior's shield is confirmed to be as described previously' in their history it is said that the Zeison Sha Survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. Or in other words the Zeison Sha survived the empire's attempts to kill them' due to their higher telekinetic defensive capabilities.

But the ability to form that shield isn't even unique to the Zeison Sha. Others on the thread provided evidence of other force users performing the technique. Furthermore, although I'm not sure about the validity, when talking about this shield, which is described as "wrapping the Force around his or her body to resist damage", Wookieepdia also provides a link to just a simple force barrier.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
You saying im rattling off random claims with no EVIDENCE? thats coming from a person who will wait for the evidence to present itself in literacy in order to make it out as a factual confirmation. Rather then investigate what's been said and shown as evidence giving a independant observation and later discovering whether it's true or not putting all the pieces of the puzzle together solely using one's perception' dont make me laugh 😆.

Well, yeah. I don't know about you, but I like to see evidence presented in literature or any other medium first, before I start making claims. Shouldn't everyone?

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic

only quote that i mentioned that wasnt said exactly conserning the Zeison Sha was the one made by Bodo Baas. even though i incorrectly put Bodo's statement in' the meaning to what both I and Bodo baas made was of the same meaning' (But said indirectly) the Zeison Sha are Masters of Telekinesis and Telekinetic powers and their capabilities in this area surpass those of most jedi in history.

Once again, the quote says "many jedi", and never does it mention "in history." For the Zeison Sha to be superior to many jedi shouldn't really be too much of a surprise. They focus primarily in telekinesis, so it should be expected. In any case, Bodo Baas made the statement some 560 years before the Clone Wars, in which the Jedi Order became much more combat focused. It isn't a stretch to suggest many jedi developed this particular talent during the course of the Clone Wars.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
And when it comes to the Zeison Sha being the Most powerful Order Of Light Side Force Sensitives this is a fact. i'll Sight some specific examples using the 3 Force organizations that target 1 aspect of abilities' such as. The Jedi. The Matukai. The Zeison Sha.

The Jedi focuses primarily on reaching true Understanding of the Force as well as achieving the spiritual perfection while unlocking as many unique spiritual capabilities in the process while creating a following for the younger members of their order to do so in the future. while some of their order lack that mindset the jedi teach in a multitude of different areas to match the criteria of what their students hope to achieve.

The Zeison Sha Primarily focuses on the Mindset of Independance and Self Sufficency and Assisting Those In Need' (But without drawing too much attention to one's self) Provided that they also place their focuses on Telekinesis and other Telekinetic capabilities in hopes to reach the Mental perfection and have done so in many cases previously stated and one's not seen yet' but notable cases' Yanibar and The Great Jedi Perge.

Yes, the Jedi have a much broader focus regarding aspects of the force. Thus, its understandable that the Zeison Sha, focusing primarily in the area of telekinesis, will better perform with the force regarding telekinesis than the Jedi. The Jedi are seen to be strong with nigh all areas of the force, not just one, meaning they are as a result a more powerful order than the Zeison Sha. For you to successfully claim and prove the Zeison Sha are however the strongest order, you need to provide evidence of their capabilities in other aspects of the force, and powerful capabilities at that.

As well, the Jedi do not focus single-mindedly on spiritual aspects, like the Zeison Sha do telekinesis and similar mental capabilities. As I've said, they have a much broader focus.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
When the 1 Force organization that targeted the aspect of mental abilities surpass the opposing order aspect of spiritual capabilities what does that naturally mean? the order that targeted mental aspects of abilities (Zeison Sha) are more powerful then the opposing order that targeted spiritual capabilities (Jedi) due to their mental abilities surpassing what the opposing order were capable of. you dont need to be the most powerful in all areas overall to be more powerful' as demonstrated in the example earlier.

Yeah, no, whatever. I've been staring at this last part of your post for the last 15-20 minutes, and I'm still trying to understand just what on Earth you're trying to say. You don't show any evidence to support your claim that the the mental capabilities of the Zeison Sha surpass the spiritual capabilities of the Jedi, nor do you even explain how they surpass the Jedi.

In any case, please, when you come back with your internet fixed, also come back with some improved grammar, just so I can better understand your arguments.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
The most powerful order of Force Sensitives are the Zeison Sha. The Zeison Sha were a order of Force Sensitives that lived on the planet Yannibar or more commonly known as Zeison Sha stress. at some point in their history they started Developing Telekinetic powers and begin to become force Sensitive as a means of Surviving the harsh conditions and Ecosystem of the planet Yannibar even Becoming more Stronger and Resilient physically compared to most Sentients. the Zeison Sha's beliefs as a order are Independance and Self Sufficency as well as Assisting Those In Need. but the Jedi order looked at them as guardians of the public. and even stated by Jedi Master Vodo Baas, The Zeison Sha's Telekinetic abilitys surpass most of our Jedi Knight's Force abilitys. The Zeison Sha had 2 ranks within their Order. Zeison Sha Initiate (Similar to Jedi Knight) and Zeison Sha Warrior (Similar to Jedi Master)

No, the Jedi order produced far more powerful Force Wielders with more extensive training in all areas based on aptitude.

And the Jedi recruited Force Sensitives from all over the galaxy. Most far more sensitive than you might think, all put together the order had far more Force sensitivity and talent than one single species.

Minus the family on Mortis.

Could Zeison Sha move at least, well, a semi-big starship? Not even talking about Star Destroyers...

Originally posted by Q99
That wasn't in the quote you posted.

If you have information, post the direct quote. That's not in Jedi vs Sith the Essential Guide to the Force or KotoR 2.

The Zeison Sha warrior armor isnt the only thing i read about.

Originally posted by KylarWhite
But the ability to form that shield isn't even unique to the Zeison Sha. Others on the thread provided evidence of other force users performing the technique. Furthermore, although I'm not sure about the validity, when talking about this shield, which is described as "wrapping the Force around his or her body to resist damage", Wookieepdia also provides a link to just a simple force barrier.

Well, yeah. I don't know about you, but I like to see evidence presented in literature or any other medium first, before I start making claims. Shouldn't everyone?

Once again, the quote says "many jedi", and never does it mention "in history." For the Zeison Sha to be superior to many jedi shouldn't really be too much of a surprise. They focus primarily in telekinesis, so it should be expected. In any case, Bodo Baas made the statement some 560 years before the Clone Wars, in which the Jedi Order became much more combat focused. It isn't a stretch to suggest many jedi developed this particular talent during the course of the Clone Wars.

Yes, the Jedi have a much broader focus regarding aspects of the force. Thus, its understandable that the Zeison Sha, focusing primarily in the area of telekinesis, will better perform with the force regarding telekinesis than the Jedi. The Jedi are seen to be strong with nigh all areas of the force, not just one, meaning they are as a result a more powerful order than the Zeison Sha. For you to successfully claim and prove the Zeison Sha are however the strongest order, you need to provide evidence of their capabilities in other aspects of the force, and powerful capabilities at that.

As well, the Jedi do not focus single-mindedly on spiritual aspects, like the Zeison Sha do telekinesis and similar mental capabilities. As I've said, they have a much broader focus.

Yeah, no, whatever. I've been staring at this last part of your post for the last 15-20 minutes, and I'm still trying to understand just what on Earth you're trying to say. You don't show any evidence to support your claim that the the mental capabilities of the Zeison Sha surpass the spiritual capabilities of the Jedi, nor do you even explain how they surpass the Jedi.

In any case, please, when you come back with your internet fixed, also come back with some improved grammar, just so I can better understand your arguments.

Maybe i didnt make myself clear the first time, i said. The Zeison Sha were Masters of Telekinetic force powers, force powers that require the usage of the brain for offensive and defensive purposes. not just for levitating and throwing objects (Telekinesis). The Jedi more commonly channel the spirit for such purposes, which is why it listed all the notable jedi and sith affiliations in the (force barrier) article of wookieepedia and not the Zeison Sha.

Once again the quote "many jedi" was reffering to the force orders in comparison. The jedi viewed the zeison sha's telekinetic abilities superior to those of many jedi. When you put a abilities comparison between orders, a character stating that the opposing order's telekinetic ability is superior to those of many jedi, that counts the Jedi in the Past and in the present. which in other words "Many Jedi" is most Jedi since the Zeison Sha were masters in that skill and later evidenced by the jedi order, also the order looked at them as superior to those of many jedi seen previously and presently (but not directly said). few jedi and sith have mastered telekinesis (the 1st stage of Telekinetics) the notables i can think of at the moment. (Yoda) (Tulak hord) (Trenbrae) there arent many jedi masters that mastered telekinesis to the level of the Zeison Sha. Zeison sha are superior telekineticly to 91% of the jedi and they are telekineticly superior to 87% of the sith.

The jedi are evidenced to be better in channeling the spirit with help of the force and being witnessed in history as very powerful combatants in Lightsaber combat. Versatility is the jedi's key to victory, without it they cannot maintain their order's stability, the stability of the republic and they would ultimately stand no chance against the sith all together. (in other words the jedi are the best balance but not the most powerful Light Side Order)

What is so hard to understand about my previous message that had you stuck on it for 15 minutes? is your mindset based so solely on literacy that you purposely cloud your own mind due to the opposition contradicting your highly opinionated choice, keeping a arguement up while using provocative insults? or are you just an idiot? wait dont answer that.

I have explained why the Zeison Sha surpassed the jedi reasons why? The average Zeison Sha warriors are so powerful in telekinesis that they can use their mind to crush their opposition's body, and pull down assault carriers and assault ships with minimum effort. provided that they can use their mind to make a indestructible telekinetic shield that dosen't deplete no matter how many blaster shots hit it. (Evidenced during the great jedi perge) and since you say otherwise, thats your opinion. We can keep arguing about this untill you lose interest, which you most likely have or will.

And yet the Zeison Sha warrior is unmatched in Telekinetic force powers, Zeison Sha Elite Warrior is unparalleled in Telekinetic force powers. Very similar to a Jal Shey Mentor being unparalleled in intellect.

Originally posted by Arhael
Could Zeison Sha move at least, well, a semi-big starship? Not even talking about Star Destroyers...

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
[B]Of course it wasnt in the quote i posted previously conserning the Zeison sha warrior armor description.

Then post quotes to back your stuff up.

it was on wookieepedia in the accumulated history, and it specifically said, that the Zeison Sha SURVIVED the empire's attempts to stamp them out.

Which in no way means they took no casualties.

You just assumed that based on nothing, Wookiepedia doesn't say zero casualties.

Remember, the Jedi Order has survived multiple purges. Even when the purges take out well over half of all Jedi, the Jedi are said to have survived.

If you disagree, then provide a quote.

(The Zeison Sha all together survived the same attempted massacre that put the Jedi into near extinction) meaning no casualties were suffered for any of the ranks in the Zeison Sha, (Zeison Sha initiate) (Zeison Sha warrior) (Zeison Sha Elite warrior) it can't be anymore clear then that.

It doesn't say zero casualties at any point. The order survived, nothing about no casualties.

Not only is it not a 'can't be any more clear' situation, it doesn't even say that at all.

If you disagree, then provide a quote. If you cannot do so, withdraw your argument.

Maybe i didnt make myself clear the first time, i said. The Zeison Sha were Masters of Telekinetic force powers, force powers that require the usage of the brain for offensive and defensive purposes. not just for levitating and throwing objects (Telekinesis). The Jedi more commonly channel the spirit for such purposes, which is why it listed all the notable jedi and sith affiliations in the (force barrier) article of wookieepedia and not the Zeison Sha.

Note, nothing says the Jedi don't use telekinesis in their barrier.

Provide a quote that they do things differently than the Jedi.
You made yourself very clear that you think they do. You've yet to provide a quote to back this up.

Originally posted by Q99
[b]

Then post quotes to back your stuff up.

Which in no way means they took no casualties.

You just assumed that based on nothing, Wookiepedia doesn't say zero casualties.

Remember, the Jedi Order has survived multiple purges. Even when the purges take out well over half of all Jedi, the Jedi are said to have survived.

If you disagree, then provide a quote.

It doesn't say zero casualties at any point. The order survived, nothing about no casualties.

Not only is it not a 'can't be any more clear' situation, it doesn't even say that at all.

If you disagree, then provide a quote. If you cannot do so, withdraw your argument.

Note, nothing says the Jedi don't use telekinesis in their barrier.

Provide a quote that they do things differently than the Jedi.
You made yourself very clear that you think they do. You've yet to provide a quote to back this up.

Same thing with the jedi. But for the Zeison Sha it was said that they survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. ( To put it in the clearest way, The Zeison sha survived the empire's attampts to STAMP THEM OUT. THEY SURVIVED THE EMPIRE'S ATTEMPTS TO KILL THEM, The empire attempted to kill them like what they did to the matukai and jedi orders but failed) in other words the Zeison Sha order didnt feel the emperor's wrath, which means they that didn't suffer casualties, and most of their initiates left the planet to keep it that way.

You just don't want to believe that there are other major force organizations that are high in aspects of power besides the Jedi and Sith, since you probably grew up loving the idea of the Jedi and their order from what you seen in the films made back then. Get over it george lucas dosen't care about Star Wars anymore he finished what vision he wanted to achieve and sold the rights to the series as a result. Since Disney is in charge they are going to take the focus off of the jedi and on to other things and (probably) other force orders, and if J.D wiker and Rodney Thompson have more of a say so in the Star Wars Universe then what they previously had, "your" going to see alot more of Both the Matukai and the Zeison Sha in either the future films TV show or comic books. otherwise you can keep arguing with me. Its a waste of time but good practice for my typing 😎

To make it simple it's not going to literally say everything about what i say conserning the Zeison Sha, if you are looking for that type of simple minded understanding you might as well go somewhere else.

The Jedi Order produced Revan, Satele Shan, Hero of Tython, Yoda, Mace, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Luke Skywalker, Kyle Katarn, and Kyp Durron to name a few.

Who did the Zeison Sha produce?

NJO produced Dorsk 82 who by channeling power from peers and pushing himself far beyond limits to the point that he simply burned out pushed 14 Star Destroyers out of Yavin system. In this case even Marek pales in comparison.

That was Dorsk 81. 82 didn't do shit.

Nat Skywalker and T'ra Saa channeled the entire output of an exploding capital ship reactor into a beam of destruction to pierce through an enemy fleet.

Star Wars Logic

How many times are you going to repeat the same thing? and how many times do i have to repeat the same thing?

Probably until you provide quotes/proof, which you have failed to do.

You're going beyond the text you've provided.

the Matukai, during the great jedi perge it said that the Matukai was another force order to feel the emperor's wrath but ultimately survived, meaning that most of them died (when it was said that they suffered the emperor's wrath)

Yea, and there were only 50-60 Matukai to begin with, smaller than the ZS, and they didn't hide out on a tough planet out in wild space, they were nomads who traveled through Republic/Empire space.

If you say the Zeison Sha are stronger than the Matukai, sure. But the Matukai are much smaller and weaker than the Jedi order to begin with.

Same thing with the jedi. But for the Zeison Sha it was said that they survived the empire's attempts to stamp them out. ( To put it in the clearest way, The Zeison sha survived the empire's attampts to STAMP THEM OUT. THEY SURVIVED THE EMPIRE'S ATTEMPTS TO KILL THEM, The empire attempted to kill them like what they did to the matukai and jedi orders but failed) in other words the Zeison Sha order didnt feel the emperor's wrath, which means they that didn't suffer casualties, and most of their initiates left the planet to keep it that way.

It never said they didn't suffer casualties. You are taking a massive, unsupported leap from "they survived" to "every last one of them survived."

Nothing said their casualties were light or none. The Matukai had a few survive, out of 50-60, so, what, 95%+ casualties? That's really heavy. It's a miracle they survived despite that.

The Zeison Sha are more numerous to begin with. They could've had dozens of casualties, say, 10-30% casualties. That'd do far better than the Matukai, hence the difference in description, but still, nothing said no casualties. If there was no casualties, it'd probably be mentioned, but it didn't.

There's a reason their survival is described as 'enduring' the Imperial occupation and 'surviving' it, rather than 'fighting off with no casualties.

Wookiepedia also said they survived in large part because they avoided Vader and his Jedi Hunters:

"They survived attempts during the Great Jedi Purge to stamp them out, avoiding Darth Vader and other Jedi hunters. "

I.e. they didn't face the big guns in the purge like the Jedi did, or the entire Clone Army. They weren't the priority targets.

Also of note, despite actively resisting, they didn't force the Empire off their sole planet. They survived and outlasted, they didn't beat all comers.

"Those Zeison Sha who left Yanibar after it gained access to interstellar travel did so incognito for fear of the Jedi, and later Imperial Jedi hunters. The port and outpost remained intact as late as the Galactic Civil War, and the Empire positioned troops on Yanibar, including speeder bikes and scout troopers. This Imperial presence was resisted by the Zeison Sha. The colonists on Yanibar and their Zeison Sha protectors endured the Galactic Civil War." -Article on Yanibar

You just don't want to believe that there are other major force organizations that are high in aspects of power besides the Jedi and Sith, since you probably grew up loving the idea of the Jedi and their order from what you seen in the films made back then.

Incorrect. I want proof. A lot of the stuff you're saying about their abilities being better or different than Jedi with the same abilities doesn't seem to come from anywhere.

Note I've also never said they aren't very strong in telekinesis. I'm just noting that they aren't said to work any different than other force user's TK, just that they focus on training it more.

And nothing said their specialization in TK makes them overall more powerful either, that's also coming from you, and not any quote.