Originally posted by StyleTime
Well, maybe this comes down to the infamous "piercing vs blunt force" durability debate?Frieza got diced by Trunks, but he also survived Namek's explosion. Goku was killed by a similar explosion from Cell.
Maybe Frieza cuts easier, but is harder to "blow up"?
Cell power killed Goku, not the planet explosion. Frieza power killed Vegeta not the destruction of the rocks behind him. Vegeta power killed Nappa, not the destruction of the clouds behind him. Piccolo power killed Raditz, not the mountain being destroyed behind them. I feel pretty got darn safe at saying that Roshi moon busting attack wouldn't even TICKLE Raditz, let alone a Super Saiyan. When you all realize Collateral damage isnt the deciding factor of everything, then that would make you a better debatar. Goku is more durable, plain and simple and whatever Frieza endured, Goku can take it at a better rate.Goku damaged Frieza with kicks and blasts that did nothing to the planet, so I guess that means those attacks are > planetary.
Originally posted by BloodRain
How can "did nothing to the planet" and "those attacks are > planetary" be in the same sentence?
Because its common sense that a planet doesn't have to explode for something to be greater than a planetary blast, punch, etc...common sense. Galactus shot Thanos with everything he had but the ship didn't explode whereas a calm Galactus not even using a fraction of his power laid waste to a planet.
Picollo special beam canon>>>>the casual blast he used to destroy the moon. Trunks blast he turned Frieza to dust with>>>>Nameks explosion. Gohan final blast he used to kill Cell>>>>>>the blast that destroyed snake way and the KI planet.
It's sad that I have to break this down. Collateral damage isn't the deciding factor of everything unless you truly believe Master Roshi and Piccolo (with a power level of 350) is more powerful than Frieza who exerted a lot of energy against Goku but didn't do anything close to moon busting during that fight. Think Bloodrain.
Thats all well and good, probably, but I was actually pondering the reason behind the sentence "The attacks didn't scratch the planet, so they are planetary+" and how you came it, not the collateral stuff.
Was only chiming in on that part 'cause I wasn't really paying much attention to what what you guys were talking about until right now haermm
But I will say this; If a guy uses planetary strength to punch a planet, the planet will be destroyed unless he toned down the attack. Newtons laws or something like that.
And its not like every single attack in their fight is a planetary one.. in fact this has been stated in the manga. Cell vs Goku; Goku mega-charges his Kamehameha and everyone's shocked because this attack is at the level of planet busting. The collateral damage has to be true or this wouldn't have been a problem and no one would bring up how strong it is, especially not Cell seeing as he's apparently been taking stronger throughout the fight... not to mention Cell would have easily brushed off an attack that had just reached Planet busting if he can tank a variety of Planet+ punches.
Several Planet++ attacks = walk it off, no problem. One Planet buster = fear and evaporation?
Lol...the Z fighters have been shocked at Nuke level power (from Frieza). Its notthe destruction behind the blast that excites them, its the power the blast wields.
Of course they would say Goku blast would annihilate the planet because...it could. Let's not pretend like that was the first time they've felt planet destruction power. Hell, Goku felt that during his first fight with Vegeta, so planet busting should be of no surprise to a Z fighter.
Also...lol again. Uuummm, Vegeta during the Saiyan saga, even with his planet busting power wouldn't even TICKLE Frieza and this was proven during the Namek saga. Planet busting is all nice and dandy (to the weakest of Z fighters) but again, its not the be all, end of of DBZ and Collateral damage isn't as well. Like I've stated before, when you get pass this, things will become clearer to you.
*Pretend I'm showing you some scans /effort/*
Yeah, the power. And the power of his attack was charged up to a level where the Earth would be destroyed. Now why would he charge up an attack like that and have people comment on it if his normal punches are at a higher level of power?
Nice dodge, none of that was in any way related to half of my post. Don't go on a tangent about what weaker characters cant do to stronger ones, address the words that are coming out of my text-mouth:
Undeniable facts in the manga;
Fact 1- Cell took dozens of attacks from Goku with little sign of injury.
Fact 2- Goku thought a planet busting attack would work.
Fact 3- Cell and the others pissed themselves at the sight of Goku charging up a planet buster.
Fact 4- Said attack vaporized Cell.
If all of Goku's attacks were planetary, why did he think a simple Earth-level blast would work? Why was everyone reacting to a level of power that they've been seeing since Freeza? Why did that Earth-level blast destroy Cell when stronger punches didn't bother him that much?
*Pretend I'm showing you some scans /effort/*
Doth thou hath no respect for laziness?.... Fine 🙁
It's true that in that instance they never said it was 'only' a planetary attack, but like I said, "Why was everyone reacting to a level of power that they've been seeing since Freeza?" because in your opinion "its the power the blast wields" that shocks them. How can one planet busting attack be shocking when anyones punch packs that power too? Orrr, my new example;
"Would he really use that attack on the surface of the Earth?"
"Do you want to destroy the Earth?"
"At the last second he made his attack smaller"
"GRUNT"
As you can see, Vegeta was about to use an attack that would have destroyed the Earth if he didn't reduce it. By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster.
And it still vaporized a portion of Cell.
Yeah unless he was originally going to make a continental sized blast, the actual size doesn't really matter. When Z fighters say bigger/smaller, they're not talking about the size; Here we have Gohan's attack connecting with Cell's, and even though his is smaller in size, Vegeta still says that his was the bigger one. The size they mean is the power.
In fact Vegeta's attack is not different in size than Gohan and Cell's attack above, their stronger attack in motion or even an earlier one.
So yeah, Trunks is talking about the power, not the physical size.
Originally posted by carver9
Cell power killed Goku, not the planet explosion. Frieza power killed Vegeta not the destruction of the rocks behind him. Vegeta power killed Nappa, not the destruction of the clouds behind him. Piccolo power killed Raditz, not the mountain being destroyed behind them.
Regardless, I wasn't asserting that Frieza is more durable. I wanted to hear everyone's opinions on it. That's why I asked a question rather than making a statement.
Originally posted by carver9
When you all realize Collateral damage isnt the deciding factor of everything, then that would make you a better debatar.Goku is more durable, plain and simple and whatever Frieza endured, Goku can take it at a better rate.Goku damaged Frieza with kicks and blasts that did nothing to the planet, so I guess that means those attacks are > planetary.
Which is why planetary attacks are still killing Goku after the Frieza saga, amirite?
Originally posted by carver9
Are you really arguing the size of the blast determines the power of the blast when it comes to DBZ attacks? REALLY?
Originally posted by BloodRain
the actual size doesn't really matter
Also: "Vegeta was about to use an attack that would have destroyed the Earth if he didn't reduce it. By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster. And it still vaporized a portion of Cell."
Originally posted by BloodRain
In the first sentence.. 😕Also: "Vegeta was about to use an attack that would have destroyed the Earth if he didn't reduce it. By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster. And it still vaporized a portion of Cell."
They didn't say it was weaker AND, Vegeta used the same attack against Frieza that was about to destroy Namek. Are you saying non Super Saiyan Vegeta blast (that he used against Frieza that kicked it like a play toy) is equal to Ascended Saiyan Vegeta blast? Think about it bro. Meditate on it.