Who is more durable? Frieza or Super Saiyan 1 Goku?

Originally posted by StyleTime
Those aren't quite the same thing. Vegeta and Raditz were actually pierced by those attacks, and died as a result. As for Nappa, clouds exploding aren't even remotely the same thing as the planet exploding.

Regardless, I wasn't asserting that Frieza is more durable. I wanted to hear everyone's opinions on it. That's why I asked a question rather than making a statement.

That is hilarious coming from you.

Which is why planetary attacks are still killing Goku after the Frieza saga, amirite?

Planetary attacks isnt killing Goku, Cell is killing Goku. That's why Superman died from a punch that took out some windows huh? Thats why Thor died from a blast that didn't even level a mountain huh? These type of arguments are lame. When You realize it was Doomsday power that killed Superman, then you can holla at me. When you realize it was the Serpent power that killed Thor, holla at me...unit then, I'm shaking my head at you.

Originally posted by carver9
They didn't say it was weaker

From what is obviously shown here, when Vegeta mentions that Gohan's attack was bigger he means in power. That goes the same for Trunks about Vegeta's attack, so.. "By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster."

The rest of your post had little to do with mine, that and no one said that attack would destroy Namek, and it still made Freeza freak out when he found out its power, making him forced to deflect it instead of tanking the the explosion. Anyhow, I'd prefer if you'd actually address the point I'm making this time instead of going on about other characters and instances that don't really answer anything. If you can prove Trunks and Vegeta's own statements to be wrong, then do so.

Being cut in half and still surviving.
Floating around in space,in an almost dead form,waiting for regeneration.
My vote goes to Frieza.

Originally posted by carver9
Planetary attacks isnt killing Goku, Cell is killing Goku. That's why Superman died from a punch that took out some windows huh? Thats why Thor died from a blast that didn't even level a mountain huh? These type of arguments are lame. When You realize it was Doomsday power that killed Superman, then you can holla at me. When you realize it was the Serpent power that killed Thor, holla at me...unit then, I'm shaking my head at you.

Also, those characters have feats Goku doesn't. If Goku was running around shrugging off galactic explosions, you might have a point. He wasn't doing stuff like that though, so....

Goku went up against a planetary attack. He died.

PS. Doomsday's punch shook Earth to its core. Those windows shattered all the way from Metropolis to Gotham.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Didnt Goku leave a bite mark on Freeza's tail? :T

Those windows shattered all the way from Metropolis to Gotham.

@Bloodrain...

I'm glad we came to an agreement that Saiyan Saga Goku and Vegeta can kill ascended Saiyan Goku and Cell with their planet destroying power. Makes so much sense.

"Here we have Gohan's attack connecting with Cell's, and even though his is smaller in size, Vegeta still says that his was the bigger one. The size they mean is the power."

From what is obviously shown here, when Vegeta mentions that Gohan's attack was bigger he means in power. That goes the same for Trunks about Vegeta's attack, so.. "By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster."

The rest of your post had little to do with mine, that and no one said that attack would destroy Namek, and it still made Freeza freak out when he found out its power, making him forced to deflect it instead of tanking the the explosion. Anyhow, I'd prefer if you'd actually address the point I'm making this time instead of going on about other characters and instances that don't really answer anything. If you can prove Trunks and Vegeta's own statements to be wrong, then do so.

Posting again because aparently I'm the only person who could see my post above or something, 'cause we all know carver doesn't run and hide from an argument.. especially after "no one said that attack would destroy Namek, and it still made Freeza freak out when he found out its power" and "I'd prefer if you'd actually address the point I'm making this time instead of going on about other characters and instances that don't really answer anything".

So, the main point yet again; "By Trunks and Vegeta's own admittance, Vegeta ended up using an attack that was weaker than a planet buster."
Proof against Trunks and Vegeta's statements admitting that Vegeta did not use a planet busting level of attack to do that to Cell? Answer or concede I guess..

@bloodrain...

I did answer your crazy question. Vegeta making his blast smaller doesn't mean his blast doesn't pack a whollop to damage Cell. A planet doesn't always have to explode for EVERY attack. A planet doesn't have to explode to kill Goku,Cell, Superman, Magneto, hell, Galactus almost died and the planet he was on was still intact.

When I brought up Saiyan Saga Goku and Vegeta, they had planetary power and I feel got darn safe at saying they couldn't even tickle Cell. I feel safe at saying Piccolo with a power level of 350 and Roshi couldn't even tickle Nappa with their moon busting power. Cell was pass planetary durability unless again, you believe Saiyan Saga Vegeta or Goku could kill him.

Vegeta POWER damaged Cell, not the backlash of his blast that is>>>>>>any blast done during the saiyan Saga, namekian saga, Etc etc. Don't get what's so hard to comprehend.

We know that Saiyan saga Vegeta had enough power to destroy a planet, this was stated on panel. A FAR more powerful Vegeta used his most powerful attack against Frieza (which any smart man would know this blast>>any blast before any of Vegeta attacks since this was a more powerful Vegeta) and Frieza kicked it out of the air easily.

Let's not include the fact that Goku during the Saiyan saga used the Kayo Ken times 3 that had enough power to shed Earth and when he fought Frieza, he used the Kayo Ken times 20 and Frieza TANKED the attack.

All of this is common sense bro. A planet doesn't have to explode for us to know how powerful a blast is. Vegeta being able to damage Cell let's me know Vegeta blast is more powerful than anything before it. Doomsday window shattering punch that killed Superman let's me know how powerful Doomsday is.

You need to concede since your entire argument is based on the width (lol...WTF) of a blast.

Not going to bother following the course of the discussion but yeah the size of the explosion alone doesn't determine the power. It can simply be super concentrated.

Nappa's two finger multi-city wiping blast and Vegeta's sacrificial blast against Majin Buu were of comparable size, but not in power. Nappa survived being within the center of his own blast, a several thousands of times stronger Vegeta did not.

Yeah let's be honest here: Saiyan saga Vegeta (PL=18,000) was a planet buster. I wouldn't even consider it a possibility for him to harm base form Frieza (PL=530,000) with that same Galick Gun attack... Let alone Cell (PL=4,000,000,000).

Clearly the potency of DBZ blasts cannot always be measured by collateral damage.

Originally posted by carver9
I did answer your crazy question. Vegeta making his blast smaller doesn't mean his blast doesn't pack a whollop to damage Cell. A planet doesn't always have to explode for EVERY attack.

/etc/

You need to concede since your entire argument is based on the width (lol...WTF) of a blast.

😐

Originally posted by BloodRain
[quote=BloodRain]the actual size doesn't really matter

"Yeah unless he was originally going to make a continental sized blast, the actual size doesn't really matter. When Z fighters say bigger/smaller, they're not talking about the size; Here we have Gohan's attack connecting with Cell's, and even though his is smaller in size, Vegeta still says that his was the bigger one. The size they mean is the power.

In fact Vegeta's attack is not different in size than Gohan and Cell's attack above, their stronger attack in motion or even an earlier one.

So yeah, Trunks is talking about the power, not the physical size. "

Ive said this a few times now, its not the size thats the issue, its the power. The same blast that both Krillin and Trunks outright say /would/ have destroyed Earth had he not, as seen above the size wasnt the topic, weakened it.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah let's be honest here: Saiyan saga Vegeta (PL=18,000) was a planet buster. I wouldn't even consider it a possibility for him to harm base form Frieza (PL=530,000) with that same Galick Gun attack... Let alone Cell (PL=4,000,000,000).

Clearly the potency of DBZ blasts cannot always be measured by collateral damage.

This is EXACTLY what I am telling bloodrain. Pretty freaking common sense...this includes your post as well Cosmic. It takes more than planetary attacks to hurt Cell, Frieza, ETC. Just because the planet didn't explode doesnt mean Cell durability isn't above Planetary. Just because a large portion of the planet wasn't destroyed when Piccolo hit Raditz with a blast that drained him doesn't mean that Raditz durability isn't above moon busting. Enjoy debating against yourself Bloodrain.

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah let's be honest here: Saiyan saga Vegeta (PL=18,000) was a planet buster.

Him stating he would "turn the planet to ash" means exactly dick without the feat to back up legitimate planet busting.

And why do people think that "planet busters" are equal?

It takes about a thousand times the energy it takes to destroy our moon, as it does to destroy Earth.

Imagine how much energy it would take to reach star busting.

Goku being capable of reading power levels is enough proof that Vegeta would have destroyed earth, especially since Goku had to counter that blast with a planet buster of his own. And if Piccolo with a freaking power level of 350 can destroy a moon with a casual blast and Roshi with a PL of 150 can destroy a moon, I see no reason on why its even debatable if Vegeta, Nappa, or Goku could annihilate a planet. Get your hate out of here Nemebro.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku being capable of reading power levels is enough proof that Vegeta would have destroyed earth, especially since Goku had to counter that blast with a planet buster of his own. And if Piccolo with a freaking power level of 350 can destroy a moon with a casual blast and Roshi with a PL of 150 can destroy a moon, I see no reason on why its even debatable if Vegeta, Nappa, or Goku could annihilate a planet. Get your hate out of here Nemebro.

Hey real quick, what is 150 times a thousand?

150,000.

Even according to your biased, anally raped form of power scaling, we have no reason beyond a claim made by a character in a frenzied stupor to suspect he could bust a planet.

Also, prove Goku knows how much power it takes to bust a planet, lol.

Also, prove Goku at any time thought or said "Wow that blast really can destroy the planet".

Also, clench your rectum when I push myself inside you. If we're really going to continue doing this, we might as well make it feel good for the both of us.

The writer gave us an indication of how powerful the blast was through Goku...that's all we need. Just like the writer let us know that Goku knew he was incapable of stopping Kid Buu blast because it was too powerful. That's like asking "how did Piccolo know the amount of force to use to destroy the moon...he knew because of power reading...same with Roshi, same with Nappa city destroying blast. DBZ characters knows the amount of force it takes to destroy something...this has been proven through the manga. Don't know why you are even disputing this.

Not even Final Form Freeza could bust an Earth-like planet outright let alone Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

Frieza held back for fear for his life

Yet that was his only planet buster shown on panel, we can't really say if he would've been able to destroy it instantly even if he wanted to.