X-men Movie series vs Twilight Movie Series

Originally posted by juggerman
Nice one 👆

But even if he has it (or Magneto does. Or Both) what's stopping the vamps from running over and taking it off in the blink of an eye? Edward can read the other mutants' minds so he'll know what it is and what it does. Now a vamp has protection against X and Frost.

1) The debate was about Shaw soloing. This would mean the othet mutants wouldn't need to be there
2) There are a lot of mutant out there and most all of em don't know what the helmet is for and Edward reads surface thoughts only.
3) Even Magneto couldn't remove it without getting close and distracting Shaw first. It seems like Shaw's power works as an aura that protects him and abrorbs energy around him. It's arguable if they'd even manage to grab into it.
4) He'd blow them up before they got close.
5) Edward wouldn't even think of trying to read what the helmet is for unless he's had prior knowledge of it, w/c he doesn't.
6) He could just, y'know, HOLD ONTO IT. With one hand. No twivamp is even in the same continent as strong as he is when he's charged up.
7) There's a 7th reason and possibly an 8th or 9th but I feel like the whole line of argument you presented is silly and feel like we do 't need to go on any further.

So are we in agreement? Shaw soloes?

more dumb shit up in here... Twilight dies, gets obliterated, etc.. etc.. etc..

Originally posted by Mindset
Maybe not, but your scenarios for Edward finding out about Shaws powers and immediately dispatching him are inane.

Not really. If you're going into a fight what do you think about? You make a plan right? What you can and can't do. What you're opponent can and can't do. All thses thoughts will be going thru his head and every one of them will go thru Ed's head at the same time.

And (say he has the helmet) in a team fight you tend to think of your partner's advantages and disadvantages. Out of All the people here you think not one of them would think of Shaw's/Magneto's helmet at all? Espeically if they learn of the mental power's on the vamp squad?

Plus once one of them attacks Shaw and he absorbs it they would know they had to get exotic anyway. Shaw's not fast enough to tag any of them or do much against a BFR anyway

Didn't read; give it up.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) The debate was about Shaw soloing. This would mean the othet mutants wouldn't need to be there
2) There are a lot of mutant out there and most all of em don't know what the helmet is for and Edward reads surface thoughts only.
3) Even Magneto couldn't remove it without getting close and distracting Shaw first. It seems like Shaw's power works as an aura that protects him and abrorbs energy around him. It's arguable if they'd even manage to grab into it.
4) He'd blow them up before they got close.
5) Edward wouldn't even think of trying to read what the helmet is for unless he's had prior knowledge of it, w/c he doesn't.
6) He could just, y'know, HOLD ONTO IT. With one hand. No twivamp is even in the same continent as strong as he is when he's charged up.
7) There's a 7th reason and possibly an 8th or 9th but I feel like the whole line of argument you presented is silly and feel like we do 't need to go on any further.

So are we in agreement? Shaw soloes?

1 Ok
2 Ok
3 Magneto was being an idiot. There was no indication anything was stopping mags from doin exactly what he did later from jump
4 Only if he got some power. If it was just 1 against all of them they probably wouldn't just try punching him to death. One might and get destroyed but the rest would be more cautious
5 He doesn't control his mind reading it's always on so once he couldn't read Shaw's mind he's know something was up with the helmet

Agree to disagree i guess

Originally posted by Mindset
Didn't read; give it up.

🙁

X-men for the win, and not with a whole lot of effort too, the majority of the team (read everyone except Jean) gets teleported to a safe distance by Azreal and settle down to watch the ash cloud.

Originally posted by juggerman
1 Ok
2 Ok
3 Magneto was being an idiot. There was no indication anything was stopping mags from doin exactly what he did later from jump
4 Only if he got some power. If it was just 1 against all of them they probably wouldn't just try punching him to death. One might and get destroyed but the rest would be more cautious
5 He doesn't control his mind reading it's always on so once he couldn't read Shaw's mind he's know something was up with the helmet

Agree to disagree i guess

3) There seems to always be a kinetic aura around Shaw the reason Magneto was able to getbthe helmet off was proximity and distraction.
4) Twiwolves would keep hitting him as they're not exactly the smartest ppl in the world. Good enough source of power for Shaw. And no, they won't figure out how his powers work unless he tells em.
5) He's fighting an entire army of ppl who wears silly costumes if anything, he'd think there was something up with Shaw's suit as it's the only thing that stands out against a sea of costumed weirdoes.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
3) There seems to always be a kinetic aura around Shaw the reason Magneto was able to getbthe helmet off was proximity and distraction.
4) Twiwolves would keep hitting him as they're not exactly the smartest ppl in the world. Good enough source of power for Shaw. And no, they won't figure out how his powers work unless he tells em.
5) He's fighting an entire army of ppl who wears silly costumes if anything, he'd think there was something up with Shaw's suit as it's the only thing that stands out against a sea of costumed weirdoes.

3 I don't recall an "aura". Just how Shaw kept Matrix moving when he was hit. Magneto was blinded by rage (and a heaping amount of PIS) so he didn't go for the helmet til him and Shaw had their chat. He never went for it until then and when he did he got it. No reason to think he couldn't have gotten it from jump had he tried

4 It has been shown that they follow directions pretty well and MUST obey the Packmaster. Both PM's (Jacob and the other guy) have no problem following the lead of the vamps and would hold their guys back if asked to.

5 This was about Shaw soloing remember? That means no one else is there. No army. He would notice Shaw's thoughts were blocked right away.

And if it were an army it wouldn't matter. Edward reads everyone's mind he's around and can expand his range few miles. He noticed right away he couldn't read Bella's mind in a school filled with hundreds of people. He'd take notice

Originally posted by juggerman
3 I don't recall an "aura". Just how Shaw kept Matrix moving when he was hit. Magneto was blinded by rage (and a heaping amount of PIS) so he didn't go for the helmet til him and Shaw had their chat. He never went for it until then and when he did he got it. No reason to think he couldn't have gotten it from jump had he tried

4 It has been shown that they follow directions pretty well and MUST obey the Packmaster. Both PM's (Jacob and the other guy) have no problem following the lead of the vamps and would hold their guys back if asked to.

5 This was about Shaw soloing remember? That means no one else is there. No army. He would notice Shaw's thoughts were blocked right away.

And if it were an army it wouldn't matter. Edward reads everyone's mind he's around and can expand his range few miles. He noticed right away he couldn't read Bella's mind in a school filled with hundreds of people. He'd take notice

3. It wasn't him moving. Looks more like the aura responding to kinetic energy and distorting the air/light around him thus distorting how he looks rather than him doing the macarena at superspeed..

4. From the pack leader who is also not gonna stand there, open a comic and realoze "hey! It's kinetic energy absorption!!!!". He would no doubt simply attack in rapid succession, charging and hitting and calling out attack formations at most. If the US military/FBI or whoever was guarding the installatuon couldn't figure it out, neither are the Twifags. Not until it's way too late, anyway.

SERIOUSLY, (no offense) this whole argument that they'd figure out how his powers work is asinine. Half the people watching the movie wouldn't have figured out how Shaws powers worked without him explaining it and I bet there were even some who didn't figure out how it worked even AFTER the movie ended. All he shows are energy blasts and extreme durability. The only thing that would happen is that they'd hit him more often and try and dodge his attacks.

5. When Bella blocked Edward's abilitiies, not once in the movies did he assume it was her headband blocking his powers.

/facepalm

And if it was an group battle, isn't it silly to assume that Edward would just HAPPEN to come by a stray thought of someone describing how Shaw's powers/helmet works? Not to mention that Emma and Prof X CAN detect telepaths and CAN block telepaths using their powers (see First Class).

Seriously, man, stop. This is painful to watch....

Originally posted by Nibedicus
3. It wasn't him moving. Looks more like the aura responding to kinetic energy and distorting the air/light around him thus distorting how he looks rather than him doing the macarena at superspeed..

4. From the pack leader who is also not gonna stand there, open a comic and realoze "hey! It's kinetic energy absorption!!!!". He would no doubt simply attack in rapid succession, charging and hitting and calling out attack formations at most. If the US military/FBI or whoever was guarding the installatuon couldn't figure it out, neither are the Twifags. Not until it's way too late, anyway.

SERIOUSLY, (no offense) this whole argument that they'd figure out how his powers work is asinine. Half the people watching the movie wouldn't have figured out how Shaws powers worked without him explaining it and I bet there were even some who didn't figure out how it worked even AFTER the movie ended. All he shows are energy blasts and extreme durability. The only thing that would happen is that they'd hit him more often and try and dodge his attacks.

5. When Bella blocked Edward's abilitiies, not once in the movies did he assume it was her headband blocking his powers.

/facepalm

And if it was an group battle, isn't it silly to assume that Edward would just HAPPEN to come by a stray thought of someone describing how Shaw's powers/helmet works? Not to mention that Emma and Prof X CAN detect telepaths and CAN block telepaths using their powers (see First Class).

Seriously, man, stop. This is painful to watch....

3 When he absorbs energy his body appears to be moving at extreme speeds. Once he's absorbed it that stops. No "aura" appears. There's nothing protecting the helmet from being taken off

4 Have you even seen or read Twilight? These guys don't just attack mindlessly. They find themselves against a normal looking guy with a helmet and you think that everybody would just run over and trying to hit him to death? Anytime they were in a fight they worked together and followed orders very well. They also took time to asses the situation before barreling in as you seem to believe they would.

If they believed him to be simply a human then why would it be needed to jump him? Or even use more than a fraction of their strength in just one hit? Once that didn't work and (big maybe here) Shaw killed whoever attacked him the rest would be uber careful. And besides it took Shaw absorbing a F*** LOAD of energy to blow everybody up like that. A single hit would not give him that much power.

Plus Alice CAN TELL THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!! She would see that attacking him like crazed lunitics would be STUPID!!!!!!!!!

5 Now that was just stupid. Bella doesn't wear headbands. 😄

But seriously Edward tried to figure out why he couldn't read Bella's mind. So you mean to tell me that if you could read anyone's mind and then this guy with a funky helmet came around and you couldn't read his you would NEVER think the helmet could be the reason? REALLY? And keep in mind that Ed wouldn't be the only one pondering this once he says "Hey i can't read this dude's head."

Shaw. Can. Not. Solo.

EDIT: And again im not arguing that the entire team couldn't take out the vamps and wolves. Just arguing that Shaw can't alone. Which he can't

Originally posted by juggerman
3 When he absorbs energy his body appears to be moving at extreme speeds. Once he's absorbed it that stops. No "aura" appears. There's nothing protecting the helmet from being taken off

4 Have you even seen or read Twilight? These guys don't just attack mindlessly. They find themselves against a normal looking guy with a helmet and you think that everybody would just run over and trying to hit him to death? Anytime they were in a fight they worked together and followed orders very well. They also took time to asses the situation before barreling in as you seem to believe they would.

If they believed him to be simply a human then why would it be needed to jump him? Or even use more than a fraction of their strength in just one hit? Once that didn't work and (big maybe here) Shaw killed whoever attacked him the rest would be uber careful. And besides it took Shaw absorbing a F*** LOAD of energy to blow everybody up like that. A single hit would not give him that much power.

Plus Alice CAN TELL THE FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!! She would see that attacking him like crazed lunitics would be STUPID!!!!!!!!!

5 Now that was just stupid. Bella doesn't wear headbands. 😄

But seriously Edward tried to figure out why he couldn't read Bella's mind. So you mean to tell me that if you could read anyone's mind and then this guy with a funky helmet came around and you couldn't read his you would NEVER think the helmet could be the reason? REALLY? And keep in mind that Ed wouldn't be the only one pondering this once he says "Hey i can't read this dude's head."

Shaw. Can. Not. Solo.

EDIT: And again im not arguing that the entire team couldn't take out the vamps and wolves. Just arguing that Shaw can't alone. Which he can't

3) When someone shoots him, blasts him with a grenade and shoots a rocket at him, do you notice any of his clothes get burned/torn/shredded? It is easier to believe that an aura protects him and his clothes rather than his clothes being woven from indesctructible thread.

4) They were coordinated, yes. At running towards their enemies and punching, dodging, biting, clawing. There were times they used their powers against their opponents and were tactical,yes. But nothing suggests that they'd figure out what Shaw's extremely obscure powers are. Nothing, dude. How exactly are they suddenly gonna "asses" how his powers work?

Alice can tell the future, but all that's gonna show her is ppl getting blown up or punched/blown up to death when they attack him. The most it'll tell her to do is "run away!". NOT figure out how his power works.

SHEESH. Come on, man!

5) That black thing on her head is actually called a headband. Look at her pictures.

And yes, when Bella blocked his powers he didn't go: "that headband must be blocking my powers! Maybe she's wearing something in her clothing that is blocking my telepathy somehow!!1!!" He just assumed it was her. And seriously, how difficult is it to assume that a man who deflects yoir strongest blows, dances the macarena at superspeeds and blasts people with bolts of energy would have some other powers once they see him do it?

Without prior insider knowledge (that you have) it is extremely doubtful that Edward would figure out what the helmet is for OTHER than thinking he's wearing a silly looking helmet for the same reason normal ppl do.

And in order for them to win, you're making a TON of assumptions and The only one I'm making is that they'd behave in the same way they did in the movies.

Ok try looking at it this way:

Shaw is standing in a field ready to fight The Cullens The Wolves and the Volturi. Right away Edward will realise he can't read guy's mind. Dakota Fanning (forgot her character's name), who always attacks first, would try to cause him pain which wouldn't work. Right away they would put everyone on alert that this guy is different somehow. (Alec might try but eh) Now "insert name here" will want to finish this guy quickly via punch/kick/bite/fart.

Alice would see right away that any attack they try would fail and cause their demise. Now since the future is constantly shifting she will see multible futures but they will have one thing in common. THEY ATTACK FIRST! She'll see that without them outright hitting him he can't/won't do spit. She'll relay this and boom goes the dynamite.

Also the wolves don't harm humans and only kill vampires so they would be the least likely to attack

That's very in character for everybody including Shaw to just sit there waiting to be hit. He might also try to goad them but all in all Alice would see the results and stop them from playing his game

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok try looking at it this way:

Shaw is standing in a field ready to fight The Cullens The Wolves and the Volturi. Right away Edward will realise he can't read guy's mind. Dakota Fanning (forgot her character's name), who always attacks first, would try to cause him pain which wouldn't work. Right away they would put everyone on alert that this guy is different somehow. (Alec might try but eh) Now "insert name here" will want to finish this guy quickly via punch/kick/bite/fart.

Alice would see right away that any attack they try would fail and cause their demise. Now since the future is constantly shifting she will see multible futures but they will have one thing in common. THEY ATTACK FIRST! She'll see that without them outright hitting him he can't/won't do spit. She'll relay this and boomi goes the dynamite.

Also the wolves don't harm humans and only kill vampires so they would be the least likely to attack

That's very in character for everybody including Shaw to just sit there waiting to be hit. He might also try to goad them but all in all Alice would see the results and stop them from playing his game

So now you're saying that they'll just stare at each other?

Have you abandoned your "they'll figure out what his powers/helmet is for?" argument? Admit concession on this end and I'll adress your new argument. Otherwise, I refuse to engage in a circular debate until you address the points I made individually.

Also, sux that you used the word "stupid" only to be proven wrong (regarding the headband) yet again, eh? 😛

Ok the headband was a joke. Did you miss the " 😄 "?

And im saying they find themselves looking at their opponent. Isn't that how fights usually start right?

I didn't abandon it im just now thinking Alice is a better option to debate from. Whether they figure out his powers and/or helmet or not Alice would still see what would happen. Makes more sense since you seem to believe that these guy would never ever ever ever notice his helmet

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok the headband was a joke. Did you miss the " 😄 "?

And im saying they find themselves looking at their opponent. Isn't that how fights usually start right?

I didn't abandon it im just now thinking Alice is a better option to debate from. Whether they figure out his powers and/or helmet or not Alice would still see what would happen. Makes more sense since you seem to believe that these guy would never ever ever ever notice his helmet

Many ways to interprett "😄" online, dude. Don't make incorrect comments (especially if it's somehow related to your argument) w/o taking it back after as sarcasm/jokinh don't translate well in the interwebs.

You need to concede your previous argument before segueing to another argument. I'm unwilling to engage ina circular debate with you returning to your old argument and making me repeat myself once I prove your new argument wrong in another set of arguments.

Ok well i figured you'd realise i was kidding.

And i will not concede my point. You seem to be of a mind that it is totally impossible that these ancient highly intelligent beings would ever think to look at the ridiculous helmet as a source blocking their mental powers. And even if they did Shaw would never think of him using his power in a fight even tho they are in a fight and his power is all he can use.

Seems like we are at an impasse so i decided to move on to another angle the vamps have working in their favor. If you do not wish to argue this point then don't. If you do in fact want to yet are being held back due to lack of a concension plz feel free to pretend i conceded so we may continue.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok well i figured you'd realise i was kidding.

And i will not concede my point. You seem to be of a mind that it is totally impossible that these ancient highly intelligent beings would ever think to look at the ridiculous helmet as a source blocking their mental powers.

Do you see what the Twivamps wear throughout the whole movie?? These ppl live with ridiculous clothing all the time.

On-screen we've seen Edward's powers get blocked. On screen, we've seen how he reacted to it and what assumptions he made. Most likely reaction is how he actually reacted on screen. You can't suddenly fabricate new reactions for them because you want them to win a battleboard especially because you have prior knowledge of how Shaw's powers/gear work.

This is fiction. Nothing is impossible. But in battleboards we deal with probables (w/c is why we use a 1-10/10 win-lose system) and use ACTUAL onscreen/panel evidence to support them.

Originally posted by juggerman
And even if they did Shaw would never think of him using his power in a fight even tho they are in a fight and his power is all he can use.

What is this supposed to mean? Pls elaborate.

Originally posted by juggerman
Seems like we are at an impasse so i decided to move on to another angle the vamps have working in their favor. If you do not wish to argue this point then don't. If you do in fact want to yet are being held back due to lack of a concension plz feel free to pretend i conceded so we may continue.

No. I made several arguments (numbered for your convenience) that you've yet to refute while I've refuted you time and again. You need to give up the whole "they'll figure shit out" argument so that we can proceed with your new line of thought because I'm not about to re-argue this same point with you again 5 pages from now. This line of logic of yours failed. I know it. And evidently, due to your sudden change of approach, you know it as well.

I'll not "pretend" crap. If you can't defend your old stance then you need to concede it before going into a completely different direction. I'll not debate with someone who's wasted my time for almost 5 pages of back and forths just for him to hide behind a "pretend I conceded" BS repsonse when he's finally gotten cornered with his faled logic.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Do you see what the Twivamps wear throughout the whole movie?? These ppl live with ridiculous clothing all the time.

On-screen we've seen Edward's powers get blocked. On screen, we've seen how he reacted to it and what assumptions he made. Most likely reaction is how he actually reacted on screen. You can't suddenly fabricate new reactions for them because you want them to win a battleboard especially because you have prior knowledge of how Shaw's powers/gear work.

This is fiction. Nothing is impossible. But in battleboards we deal with probables (w/c is why we use a 1-10/10 win-lose system) and use ACTUAL onscreen/panel evidence to support them.

Have we seen any wearing crazy ass helmets? And we see how Ed reacted to Bella and what he thought but Bella was not wearing a massive HELMET!

It is probable that Edward would look for reasons he could read this guy wearing a very strange helmet. Now Ed has been around for about 100 yeaers and is about as smart as a person could be. He would be able to tell that wasn't a normal (motorcycle, football) helmet. Now he might think it was battle armor but since it's unlikely he has encountered anyone in a suit of armor before it's logical for his thought process to go "Hmm i can't read his mind. Could the helmet somehow be blocking me?" If Bella had been wearing a similar helmet (that didn't block her thoughts) it's natural for his thoughts to have gone there 1st as well only to be proved wrong.

What is this supposed to mean? Pls elaborate.

You said something earlier about how "Shaw wouldn't think about exactly how is powers worked" or some such similar. Im saying that of course he would be thinking about it. That's all he has to offer. If you've ever been in a fight try to recall your thought process. You try to think of everything that could possibily happen. Everything you can do. The desired results of every action and reaction. Shaw would indeed think about his powers and how they worked even in the most basic sense and as the thoughts passed thru his head they would pass thru Ed's head at the same time (with no helmet)

No. I made several arguments (numbered for your convenience) that you've yet to refute while I've refuted you time and again. You need to give up the whole "they'll figure shit out" argument so that we can proceed with your new line of thought because I'm not about to re-argue this same point with you again 5 pages from now. This line of logic of yours failed. I know it. And evidently, due to your sudden change of approach, you know it as well.

I'll not "pretend" crap. If you can't defend your old stance then you need to concede it before going into a completely different direction. I'll not debate with someone who's wasted my time for almost 5 pages of back and forths just for him to hide behind a "pretend I conceded" BS repsonse when he's finally gotten cornered with his faled logic.

I've given you my answer. Sorry you don't like it. Again if you wish to move on then let's do so. If you wish to stop feel free

Pretty sure Shaw solos.