X-men Movie series vs Twilight Movie Series

Started by Nibedicus21 pages
Originally posted by juggerman
No i think you misunderstood my meaning. At first yeah i said Ed would read his mind until someone brought up the helmet. Which i replied Ed would realise then he was being blocked and suspect the helmet. You argued he wouldn't look to the helmet. After some back and forth i said Jane would also try her power and fail due to the helmet and no you have more ppl looking for the reason they are being blocked. You said they still wouldn't suspect the helmet so i dropped that and looked to Alice for a reason Shaw would lose.

You "dropped" the argument but refuse to concede it?

mmm

You DO know that once you concede the whole "Ed will figure out Shaw's powers/helmet" argument, we can proceed to your new one right away?

As you seem to be unable/unwilling to defend that argument, what exactly is your reason to refuse concession other than just being a poor sport?

Is there any reason to it other than that?

Because it doesn't make sense to me to continue an argument point when a whole new and better one popped into my head.

But ok since i think dragged out long enough i hereby agree that none of the Twilight team will find anything weird at all about Shaw's helmet and would never ever suspect it of blocking their mental powers. Hell if Shaw just stood there screaming "The helmet is protecting my mind from you chumps!!!" they still wouldn't be able to figure it out.

I feel a whole lot beter now.

Originally posted by juggerman
Because it doesn't make sense to me to continue an argument point when a whole new and better one popped into my head.

But ok since i think dragged out long enough i hereby agree that none of the Twilight team will find anything weird at all about Shaw's helmet and would never ever suspect it of blocking their mental powers. Hell if Shaw just stood there screaming "The helmet is protecting my mind from you chumps!!!" they still wouldn't be able to figure it out.

I feel a whole lot beter now.

I was gonna congratulate you on your graciousness in accepting the flaw in your argument up until you inserted: "Hell if Shaw just stood there screaming "The helmet is protecting my mind from you chumps!!!" they still wouldn't be able to figure it out." That makes it seem more of a backhanded admission than anything.

If you simply said: "I am unwilling to proceed with this line of thought and therefore, I shall concede it." you woulda won tons of respect from me (and other ppl reading IMO), but I guess this is the best you can do.

Just to be clear, before I go forward, you're not going to suddenly claim that you were "joking" or "being sarcastic" when you admitted concession right? Yes or no to this would be acceptable.

The consession will stand.

I will hold you to that.

Very well, as promised, here is my argument regarding why Alice will not be such an issue with Shaw soloing:

As per forum rules, each combatant fights at full capacity. Which means that they will fight in character and fight how they are shown to fight a real threat/enemy. As per forum rules:

Full Capacity

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

For the same reason Thor would not hesitate in a fight vs Captain America in a forum fight (even tho this is highly unlikely in a comic), we assume that Twiwolves will not "hang back" and hesitate in a fight vs a human.

The Twiwolves will attack. They will not hang back. And sadly this would mean that they will strike Shaw many times. Why Alice's power not help them you ask? Well this is because Alice's powers DO NOT WORK ON ANYTHING INVOLVING QUILEUTE SHAPESHIFTERS. Even if it is someone else's decisions she is tracking (that is why she can't see Bella's future while she was with Jacob IIRC).

Blew your mind yet? 😮

Actually i figured that's where you would go. Well played my friend

EDIT: You asked "Blew your mind yet?" like if it didn't you have more. Do you indeed have more or was that it?

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Juggernaut slams into a group of Twivamps at full speed. Result?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
I will hold you to that.

Very well, as promised, here is my argument regarding why Alice will not be such an issue with Shaw soloing:

As per forum rules, each combatant fights at full capacity. Which means that they will fight in character and fight how they are shown to fight a real threat/enemy. As per forum rules:

Full Capacity

It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.

It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.

For the same reason Thor would not hesitate in a fight vs Captain America in a forum fight (even tho this is highly unlikely in a comic), we assume that Twiwolves will not "hang back" and hesitate in a fight vs a human.

The Twiwolves will attack. They will not hang back. And sadly this would mean that they will strike Shaw many times. Why Alice's power not help them you ask? Well this is because Alice's powers DO NOT WORK ON ANYTHING INVOLVING QUILEUTE SHAPESHIFTERS. Even if it is someone else's decisions she is tracking (that is why she can't see Bella's future while she was with Jacob IIRC).

Blew your mind yet? 😮

Ok here's my retort. Numbered of course.

1. The wolves have shown that it is in character to follow the lead of the vampires in battles shown in Eclipse and again in Breaking Dawn. They would not attack 1st. Just because they would use all their might does not mean they go against their character. They would wait for the vamps to move 1st like they always have

2. Just went thru the Movie Vs Forum Rules and could not find a "Full Capacity" rule at all. Maybe you could show me where you saw it

3. Movie Alice (the character we are actually debating here) had no trouble seeing the wolves during the vision she had in BD2. Now i know what you'll say. Something along the lines of "well in the book she couldn't see them so she can't here" right? Close? Well after reading the Movie Vs Forum rules maybe you'll change your mind

"The MVF Golden Rule:
What is seen on screen is canon in these forums. If your character you wish to use has feats/actions/handicaps that contradict what that character did on screen (movie canon), then it is a violation and is illegal. MOVIE FEATS ONLY!"

Notice what's in BOLD?

Alice's handicap is NOT valid here since this was a "handicap that contradicts what the character did on screen and is ILLEGAL"

MOVIE FEATS ONLY

So seeing as how Movie canon is what is used here Alice sees ALL!!!!

4. Me thinks you're trying to bring other rules from other forums over here and sadly that is not allowed 🙁

5. Even if they did attack Shaw and powered him up (which they wouldn't for reasons mentioned above) Alice and Edward(who would be reading Alice's mind and therefore also seeing the future) would be able to see when and how Shaw was going to release the stored energy and would avoid any attack with their extreme speed. Everyone else may die(unlikely) but Shaw has no way to put them down. He will soon run out of energy and be harmless again and then they could easily do away with him. How you ask? BFR is the most likely route i think. Also one of them could just carry him to a shallow pond and hold him underwater until the bubbles stop.

6. 😱

Just a quick FYI im really only on here while im at work. Im leaving work in about 40 mins then i dont work again until Monday. Maybe Sunday. So if you reply and feel like you've smashed my point and then don't hear from me for a few days i wouldn't want you think i ran off butthurt. 👆

See? This is proper debating. You toss points, I toss points. If one makes a point, we acknowledge it and toss me a courtesy and I will five you the same.

Anyway, understood. Won't expect a reply til next week then.

Will have my reply put together by tonight. Still going thru the Twi movie scripts before I finalize.

Don't have much time today, either. Gf is off today and she wants to go out on a run. Be back tonite.

Good stuff

1. They don't "follow the lead of vampires", they listen to their alpha who, in turn, had a battle plan set with the vampires.The wolves followed a coordinated attack plan when they engaged the in their fights with the vampires (prep). That is why they attacked in a sequenced (vampires at front, them from behind).

They do not have that luxury here. This is a no prep here and thus, no reason for them to execute any such battle plan. In order for your logic to work, they'd nearly have to behave in a forum controlled way, w/c is unlikely (tho, admittedly, remotely possible).

2. The "full capacity" rule would make sense in any fictional VS forum that allows allies/friends to fight each other, otherwise, it would be impossible to put theads that allow such matchups. But to be sure, I've msgd a mod about it and we should just wait for a ruling here.

3. The end of BD2 was very controversial from fans and critics alike (several articles out there that criticized it) due to it breaking a basic rule that was set in both the books and movies (Alice not being able to see the wolves due to their nature and the nature of her powers). And before you go around saying this isn't the case, New Moon mentioned this limitation of her power when Bella jumped off the cliff and she could no longer see what occured as soon as Jacob rescued her. That is why she thought Bella died. Forums/articles also mention another instance in Eclipse (but I can't for the life of me find it in the script) as well as in BD1 where she was unable to see Bella's future due to her hybrid daughter being involved.

Now the book will coroborate this rule as well (even tho we are not allowed to use it as evidence), if the book were allowed, under the normal circumatances, we could just chalk the end scene as blatant PIS. Hell, if the book description of how her power works is allowed, she should not be able to see Shaw at all as he is of a breed she never encountered before (mutant).

But, as it is, all we have are conflicting evidences about how her powers work. To proceed, I propose We debate on what we can find "acceptable" interpretations for both sides to use in creating debatable scenarious using on screen evidences.

However, if we simply used your method in determining how things work and what things are allowed then answer this: when exactly in the movie was it shown that Alice ACTIVELY used her powers in combat in a "constantly shifting" fashion?

Remember: movie "feats" only.

4) Already sent the msg to a mod for a ruling.

5) In every one of his showings in the movie. Shaw was never shown to NEED outside energy to charge up. He just used outside energy to get an added boost. So it's arguable if his base stats is even human-level in the movie. Case in point:

YouTube video

Even prior to him being shot, he was already stong enough to toss someone as if he was no lighter than a baseball.

Also, from what we saw in the movies, Shaw is a patient man. Also, very methodical and prone to gloat and monologue. He will no doubt kill a few but he's smart enough not to kill the wolves first if they're the ones whaling on him. And any warning from Alice or Edward won't placate the wolves once a few of them drop, they'll keep whaling on him til they die of exhaistion. He'll then target the ones "hanging back" (as you put it).

And movie Twivamps aren't that fast. Even Edward and Alice. You're giving them too much credit. And Shaw isn't stupid, he isn't gonna swing and miss all day long til his energy is depleted. I have serious doubts that they'd be avoiding Shaw's stomp. Did you see how fast that explosion travelled?? AND it's an AoE!

Drowning won't work, Magneto couldn't budge Shaw, neither are the Twivamps._

Originally posted by Nibedicus

YouTube video

Some of the movie is missing, the guy that Shaw lifts shot at him before the lift.

http://www.putlocker.com/file/AF792513692F8948#

Go to 1:02:49

Originally posted by Robtard
lol.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Some of the movie is missing, the guy that Shaw lifts shot at him before the lift.

http://www.putlocker.com/file/AF792513692F8948#

Go to 1:02:49

Guess that's what happens when one posts at 1am while uber sleepy. Sloppy of me not to remember that scene right. Admittedly, it seemed shorter than how I remember it but I just assumed it was due to me being sleepy.

Disregard my "Shaw comes in charged argument" then.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Guess that's what happens when one posts at 1am while uber sleepy. Sloppy of me not to remember that scene right. Admittedly, it seemed shorter than how I remember it but I just assumed it was due to me being sleepy.

Disregard my "Shaw comes in charged argument" then.

Np, just wanted to point it out, that the movie wasn't complete, which can hardly be your fault 🙂

It doesn't matter however what form Shaw arrives in, he still wins.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Np, just wanted to point it out, that the movie wasn't complete, which can hardly be your fault 🙂

It doesn't matter however what form Shaw arrives in, he still wins.

Yeah, my fault for committing to post "by tonight" of that day.

Was too cold to run so gf enrolled us at the gym instead. 2 months from the last time I was at the gym, suffice it to say, it kicked my butt and left me with a "ahhhh f- it!!" mindset last night leading to a rather sloppy argument (admittedly).

Okay, so Nibedicus sent me a PM requesting that I make a ruling for an argument in this thread.

From what I've read, is the disagreement about the "seen on screen" golden rule?

Can both parties post a brief reply about how I can help solve this?

If it was shown onscreen, it's valid here.

If it was not shown onscreen, it's not valid here.

Originally posted by Nibedicus

Disregard my "Shaw comes in charged argument" then.

Shaw would be charging himself every time he takes a step. So he's likely never without some added power.