Sids, Dooku, Vader vs Malgus, Revan, Bane

Not if his opponent's speed is so far beyond his that his style becomes irrelevant. How can Kenobi defend against strikes that are just too fast for him?

Unless Kenobi's style magically increases his speed (it doesn't), he's not lasting long against Sidious.

Ventress managed to penetrate Fisto's defenses with a kick. She did the same to Obi Wan in their most recent duel against eachother, while he had the help of Anakin.

Obi Wan was more skilled than them at the time. Maul was still walking around in his robotic chicken legs that he likely wasn't fully adjusted to yet, and there's also no reason to assume that his skills were back on point. Savage's only advantage over Obi Wan was his strength, which Obi Wan was a lot more prepared for this time. The area they were fighting in also seemed to give Obi Wan a greater advantage.

After all, Kenobi was unable to defeat Maul 1-on-1 when fighting in an open area.

Regardless, Obi Wan's performance against Maul and Savage does not mean we ignore his consistent showings. If anything that fight was just a very bad showing for Maul and Opress considering CW Maul's previous fights with Kenobi.

Kenobi's style of dueling is a better form for defense. I've admitted this several times. But this does not make him a better duelist than Fisto, it just makes his style more suited for defense.

After all, Grievous' speed was still sufficient to overload Kenobi's defense. If Kenobi was such a superior duelist than Fisto, then he shouldn't consistently struggle against an opponent whom Fisto has tooled quite casually.

1. Fisto started fight by taunting and hiding in mist, until Grievous made foolish move and as result lost one arm straight away. If anything it is demonstration of taking advantage of surroundings, not speed.

2. It is much easier to defend against simultanious attacks from different sides with two lightsabers. Kenobi demonstrated defending against 4 lightsabers with 1. Fisto with 2 lightsabers against 3, nowhere as impressive.

What gets irritating to me is people thinking that Obi Wan is some unbeatable defense god whose defenses are impenetrable. It's just flat out silly. His defenses can be penetrated just like anyone elses, and they have been penetrated multiple times. Ventress has managed to kick him unconscious in the middle of a duel while he was fighting alongside Anakin. Where were his impenetrable defenses then? Grievous has consistently floored Kenobi in the middle of duels. Where were his impenetrable defenses then?

Arhael, the quality of your posts are a lot better than DP's and LeGenD's, and you do seem very knowledgeable on SW, but I think your main problem is that you believe main characters are suppose to be more powerful characters (I believe you made a statement like that before), which isn't so. If I'm wrong then correct me.

For me it is all about skill and anticipation.

Originally posted by Arhael
There is no proof that Sidious is much faster.

LMAO, what?

Kenobi struggles against Grievous's speed. In comparison, Sidious has slaughtered Kit Fisto (who seemingly had no trouble with Grievous' speed) about a second after he had just cut down Tiin and Kolar, through sheer speed (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia). Sidious is much faster than Kenobi.

Originally posted by Arhael
Dooku was fast enough for Yoda, in turn both Kenobi and Anakin were fast enough for Dooku. They are all on relatively the same level.

It was Yoda's superior speed that forced Dooku to retreat on two occasions, even when Dooku had a huge boost from a dark side nexus. Being fast enough to react to Dooku, doesn't mean we apply Dooku's reaction speed to Kenobi, considering that Dooku's attacks are nowhere near as fast as Yoda's or Sidious's.

Originally posted by Arhael
Kenobi didn't lose fight, did he?

Umm..he was knocked unconscious. He was out, and probably would have been killed if Anakin wasn't there.

Originally posted by Arhael
Moreover, when fighting in team, they hold back, they couldn't disarm even Asoka.

If you believe that, then why are you overhyping Kenobi's performance against Maul and Savage?

Originally posted by Arhael
You do nothing more than lowballing here to dismiss the feat.
Surroundings gave Kenobi no advantage whatsoever, it was plane area and brothers with no problem were attacking from opposite sides.

I'm not lowballing, I'm simply considering his other performances against CW Maul. Kenobi's first fight against him ended with Kenobi fleeing because he felt he was unmatched. Their second fight (the one right before the cave fight) him and Maul seemed dead even when in an open area. And I've also admitted that Kenobi was likely just more skilled than them at the time.

If anything, you've been the one lowballing Fisto while wanking Kenobi.

Originally posted by Arhael
If it was bad showing, you need to be able to support it with something, otherwise it is just naked assumption.

I did support it.

Regardless of whether or not it was under normal circumstances, it still doesn't change Kenobi's other consistent showings.

Originally posted by Arhael
With same success I can dismiss Sidious' feat of killing three masters because it was their bad showing.

Nice try, but no you can't. Sidious combat speed has been pretty consistent throughout, and cutting those three masters down does not contradict them, nor does it contradict theirs. On at least two occasions Sidious has moved faster than Maul's eyes could follow, the last one being in their last duel (Shadow conspiracy), in which Sidious was able to speed up his attacks to such an extent that Maul's eye's were no longer able follow (note: Maul's musings in that fight suggest that his dueling-oriented powers were greater than they had ever been). It's not uncommon for Sidious to move faster than other powerful force users can react to.

Originally posted by Arhael
It means that everyone will have much harder time defeating him in saber combat.

No, it does not. If that's the case then all jedi would prefer his style, considering it's one of the most basic forms.

The only way Kenobi's style would be relevent against Sidious, is if his speed equaled or at least approached Sidious's, but it doesn't, so it's not. Kenobi lacks the speed to compete.

Originally posted by Arhael
1. Fisto started fight by taunting and hiding in mist, until Grievous made foolish move and as result lost one arm straight away. If anything it is demonstration of taking advantage of surroundings, not speed.

Grievous did not lose his arm as a result of Fisto hiding in the mist. Watch the fight again. The mist also had nothing to do with how effortlessly Fisto was forcing Grievous on the defensive. That was a result of Fisto's speed.

Originally posted by Arhael
2. It is much easier to defend against simultanious attacks from different sides with two lightsabers. Kenobi demonstrated defending against 4 lightsabers with 1. Fisto with 2 lightsabers against 3, nowhere as impressive.

How come you're not being this nitpicky with Kenobi's performances against Grievous? Are you forgetting the times Grievous gave Kenobi a good fight while only using two sabers? Or the time when Grievous had put Kenobi on his ass and just stands over him taunting him.

Originally posted by Arhael
Impenetrable defence in terms of lightsaber combat. Kicking is not a lightsaber skill.

Then why did you bring up Fisto's defeat at the hands of Ventress as a way to try to support your argument that Kenobi's defenses are better than Fisto's? Fisto was defeated by Ventress the same way Kenobi was, which was by a kick, except Kenobi's defeat was far more embarrassing considering he didn't last as long and he had Anakin fighting alongside him.

I've been over this same debate over and over again, and it's getting boring, so I'm done with it.

You're both right, actually.

On the one hand, Sidious has been consistently shown to be extremely fast among Force users. On the other hand, this is somewhat undermined by the fact that Force users from all eras have been very inconsistently portrayed with respect to their speed.

I'm not going to assume that Kenobi can be a challenge for Sidious in terms of speed based on the inconsistencies of other characters (if that's what you're getting at). Kenobi has never demonstrated the speed it would require for him to compete with Sidious, nor has he shown himself to be considerably superior to any of the victims who were non-factors to Sidious. And like you said, Sidious has never been inconsistent with his speed, and that's basically what matters when referencing his speed feats in a vs. forum. I would possibly be able see your point if Sidious had ever been shown to struggle against an Obi Wan level force user in terms of speed, but he hasn't.

Force sensitives have been portrayed inconsistently with respect to almost all aspects of the force, such as TK, but I'm not going to assume that Sidious would have trouble in casually taking Obi Wan out with TK because of those inconsistencies, so why should I assume that Sidious couldn't easily take him out in a saber duel?

I just see absolutely no reasonable argument that can be formed to support the notion that Kenobi can provide a challenge for Sidious in a lightsaber duel.

Team two takes it for me in all out 7/10

The weak link for i see is doku. Doku is strong but not that strong.

Malgus is how I imagine vader would have been had they had more advance choreography / effects back then, so him vader stale mate, SIDS vs bane/revan stalemate (for a while anyway) doku vs any of the 3 gone in no time, then it's simple 3 on 2. Fights would be volatile though so team one get the odd victory.

LMAO, what?

Kenobi struggles against Grievous's speed. In comparison, Sidious has slaughtered Kit Fisto (who seemingly had no trouble with Grievous' speed) about a second after he had just cut down Tiin and Kolar, through sheer speed (The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia). Sidious is much faster than Kenobi.

Force users can use the Force to confuse precognision of others:

"This allowed him to keep his mind focused so he could use the Force to anticipate his opponent's moves, while at the same time obscuring and confusing his enemy's own precognitive senses."

Sheer speed of Palpatine or any Force user is nothing comparing to blaster bolt. Yet, any Jedi is fast enough to deflect them.

The fact that first two masters did not react to Sidious attack is proof that their danger sence didn't trigger. Remember that Jedi puts lightsaber to block a blaster bolt before it's been shot at him. No matter how fast Palpatine is, they would put lightsaber into blocking position even before the attack. Didn't happen, they didn't even react in any way, which means that something was wrong with their precognision.

It was Yoda's superior speed that forced Dooku to retreat on two occasions, even when Dooku had a huge boost from a dark side nexus. Being fast enough to react to Dooku, doesn't mean we apply Dooku's reaction speed to Kenobi, considering that Dooku's attacks are nowhere near as fast as Yoda's or Sidious's.

Umm..he was knocked unconscious. He was out, and probably would have been killed if Anakin wasn't there.

Also, Sidious is not known to utilize strong kicks in combat, so how exactly this feat proves that Kenobi's speed is no match for Sidious???????

If you believe that, then why are you overhyping Kenobi's performance against Maul and Savage?

Fact:
Opress was already crouching on the floor, when Maul started Force choking Kenobi.

Fact:
Sidious couldn't do a thing to brothers until he Force blasted Maul, so he could engage Opress alone.

Kenobi's combination of saber attacks and kicks was more effective, than Sidious' sabers. But unlike Kenobi Sidious had advantage of Force attacks.

I'm not lowballing, I'm simply considering his other performances against CW Maul. Kenobi's first fight against him ended with Kenobi fleeing because he felt he was unmatched.

Their second fight (the one right before the cave fight) him and Maul seemed dead even when in an open area. And I've also admitted that Kenobi was likely just more skilled than them at the time.

Regardless of whether or not it was under normal circumstances, it still doesn't change Kenobi's other consistent showings.

the last one being in their last duel (Shadow conspiracy)

No, it does not. If that's the case then all jedi would prefer his style, considering it's one of the most basic forms.

The only way Kenobi's style would be relevent against Sidious, is if his speed equaled or at least approached Sidious's, but it doesn't, so it's not. Kenobi lacks the speed to compete.

Grievous did not lose his arm as a result of Fisto hiding in the mist.

Are you forgetting the times Grievous gave Kenobi a good fight while only using two sabers? Or the time when Grievous had put Kenobi on his ass and just stands over him taunting him.

Then why did you bring up Fisto's defeat at the hands of Ventress as a way to try to support your argument that Kenobi's defenses are better than Fisto's?

By the way. You used passage saying that Kenobi's defense was overloaded. Yet, according to the same book even Windu believed that Kenobi is the only one able to defeat him. It, also, mentions that Grievous learned Vaapad pattern, which means Grievous learns moves of opponents and improves.

It implies that Kenobi fought more dangerous Grievous.

Also, Fisto used Jarkai - a style that noone ever utilized against Grievous, no knowledge and no experience, hence why he was losing. Like in fight between Bane and Kasim.

Originally posted by Arhael

Fact:
Opress was already crouching on the floor, when Maul started Force choking Kenobi.

Yep. Awesome scene. Awesome fight.

Originally posted by Arhael
Fact:
Sidious couldn't do a thing to brothers until he Force blasted Maul, so he could engage Opress alone.

Yep:

"It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it- and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap."

Not only did Sidious use the Force to seperate Maul from the fight, but the description shows he was clearly looking for that Opportunity through the fight. Since he attacks the instant Maul is even slightly off balance.

Also the "Snarling" suggests Sidious puts considerable effort into that Force Push.

From the description in the novel and the scenes from the trailer it's clear the 2 on 1 will definitely be a good fight with probably an edge to Sidious which he eventually uses to seperate them and tool them 1 on 1.

Similar to how the Dooku vs Opress and Ventress fight was and probably would have ended had Opress not gone into an Uber enhanced Raging state.

Originally posted by Arhael
Sidious was speeding up, yet, Maul was still fast enough but Sidous Force handled him instead. Correct me, if I am wrong.

No this is in the last fight when Sidious tools Maul 1 on 1. He jumps straight at Maul and viciously attacks him. He seems to be speeding up in that fight until Maul is disarmed.

But consider how fast Sidious's 2 Sabers would be going all out attacking one opponent.

And also consider Obi-Wan has a faster defense than Maul so would be better equipped to deal with that scenario.

Originally posted by Arhael
Also, Fisto used Jarkai - a style that noone ever utilized against Grievous, no knowledge and no experience, hence why he was losing. Like in fight between Bane and Kasim.

Ventress also gave Grievous a battering with 2 Sabers. And Kenobi is clearly superior to Ventress in Lightsaber combat.

And we've seen how awesome Obi-Wan is utilizing Jar Kai. He's in another league.

Arhael, I would advise you to read the passage of Maul and Savage vs. Sidious, if you haven't already. DP's description of the fight is very misleading, so you shouldn't go by his word. Nowhere in the entire passage does it suggest that Sidious was looking for an opportunity to separate them with the force in order to engage them individually. Compared to his fight with Mace & company, Sidious wasn't nearly as relentless. Maul and Savage actually launch the most attacks, and Maul's musings suggest that Sidious was deflecting them quite casually. It wasn't a close fight, with Sidious only having an edge. It was, however, a very one sided fight.

I've actually posted the part where it's made clear Sidious was taking advantage of any small opportunity:

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

"It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it- and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap."

S66 has posted nothing from the fight.

I'll post the whole 2 on 1 fight tonight. It's clearly a good fight that goes on for a while, and not the stomp that S66 and Tempest make it out to be. It's definitely a challenge.

The stomp only comes into play when Sidious manages to seperate Maul from the fight.

Yes there's Maul's musings about how perfect Sidious's sword play is. And yet still the fight is going on (the description is that all 3 combatants are leaping and spinning through different rooms) until Sidious manages to seperate Maul.

And frankly I don't see how it could be any other way. Would be pretty s*** entertainment if Sidious just came in and pulled off a Fisto, Tiin, Kolar thrashing on them.

I'll say no more until you post the entire passage, and then we can break it down from there.

BTW, The_Tempest has actually posted a screen shot of the entire passage, which I've also reposted, so I've actually provided more than you have.

As per the norm, the conversation begins to teeter over the precipice of stupidity.

Shadow Conspiracy only ever depicts strain or struggle on Sidious once: when he's in simultaneous bladelock with Maul and Savage. The rest of the passage is spent glorifying him from Maul's perspective. Arguing that Sidious needed to exploit Maul's momentary weakness is all well and good, but not when you also disregard the fact that the text also notes his glee at the beginning of the duel and the fact that he allows Maul to comfort Savage in his dying moments rather than press his advantage.

If Sidious struggles with the Zabraks beyond their initial test of strength, the text doesn't note it. (I'm not ruling it out, either: the text doesn't make mention of the ferocious side kick Sidious deals Maul that we see in the Celebration VI trailer; Shadow Conspiracy is disinterested in giving us an entire play-by-play).

All I'll say is this: Dave Filoni gave a long post on his Facebook page a few days back, a progress report of sorts. He concludes with this:

Dave Filoni
The Darth Maul Arc was the final work on the Clone Wars by my friend Ian Abercrombie, who passed away last January, almost one year ago. This final performance is his best. I can’t wait for you to see it. I think it’s a performance many of you have been waiting for. Remember, in The Phantom Menace, Darth Maul was but an apprentice; now you will see why Darth Sidious is the Master.

This arc is meant to be a tribute to Sidious's mastery, not a demonstration of parity.

I'll post the whole passage soon(up to the point where he seperates Maul) for people to make up their own minds.

Sidious smiling doesn't automatically say instant stomp. He was laughing through a large portion of his fight against Yoda.

Allowing Maul to comfort Savage also doesn't mean anything really. It's not like he shows him mercy after that. And Maul alone is not capable of competing against Sidious anyway.

My argument is only that both of them together were able to put up a challenge. And that part alone seems like it will be a good fight until Sidious manages to seperate Maul.

Alone they stand no chance as they are inferior in both Sabers and the Force to Sidious.

Dave Filoni's comments only mean Sidious will be shown to be considerably more powerful than Maul. That doesn't mean Maul and Opress together won't put up a challenge until Sidious eventually bests them.

And yes the details will be different in the final episode. In the novel for example there's no mention of Kenobi kicking Opress on the knee to weaken him or Kenobi getting into a Saber lock with Maul and Opress together. Or Maul force choking Obi-Wan, or his Force Blast knocking him senseless.

So it could be Sidious Kicks Maul to seperate him, or that he uses the Force to defeat him in the 1 on 1. Who knows. We'll find out for sure in 2 weeks.

Sidious vs Maul & Opress. The 2 on 1 fight only:

”Sidious retrieved a pair of elegant-looking lightsabers from within the depths of his robes and ignited them. The blades turned his pale face a hellish red.
Maul and Savage didn’t waste time seeking an advantageous position. They simply charged, blades humming, trying to overpower Sidious with the animal ferocity of their attack. Sidious caught their sabers on his, the weapons howling and crackling where they touched. Maul saw that Savage was startled by the seemingly frail man’s enormous strength.
Maul stared at his Master’s face. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. But there was something else there, too- a terrible pleasure. Sidious began to grin.
The three-pronged duel between Sidious, and Maul and Savage had moved, like some deadly ballet, from the throne room to the steps of the palace. Sidious’s lightsabers twirled swiftly and elegantly, turning aside the furious blows Maul and Savage rained down upon him as the three Sith leapt ans spun.”

Then Maul remembers his past with Sidious and how he got to this point. Included in that is how he’s more powerful in the dark side now than he was at the time of TPM.
The fight continues:

”But strong as he had become, Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimetre out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul or Savage made before it developed.
Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it- and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.”

That’s the whole 2 on 1 Saber fight up to the point where Sidious seperates Maul from the fight. I’ve underlined the parts which I think show that:

1. It is a challenge for Sidious.
2. It’s a fight of significant length. Don’t expect a 5-10 second blitz like Kolar, Tiin and Fisto got.
3. Sidious is trying to overpower them.

I personally don’t get how anyone can see the 2 on 1 as a completely one sided stomp from that. Of course everyone will emphasize the parts they take a liking to and turn a blind eye to the parts they don’t.

It will be the same when the episode airs. Everyone will see it their own way. It’s like the Dooku vs Opress and Ventress. Some see that fight as a significant challenge to Dooku others see it as Dooku stomping them.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

BTW, The_Tempest has actually posted a screen shot of the entire passage, which I've also reposted, so I've actually provided more than you have.

I meant now and that your not posting the specific parts that prove your point like I am.

As for Dave Filoni's facebook page, he also said this:

"Maul’s quest for power will not go unnoticed by the other villains in the series, the best lightsaber fights we have ever filmed are in the episodes ahead, you will have to decide which one is your favorite."

So again don't expect some 10 second stomp from the most anticipated Lightsaber battle of the season.

This arc is meant to be a tribute to Sidious's mastery, not a demonstration of parity.

"It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it- and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap."

"His instant's distraction cost him: a dark surge of the Force nearly blew him right out of the gap he had just cut. Only a desperate Force-push of his own altered his path enough that he slammed into a stanchion instead of plunging half a kilometer from the ledge outimside."

Sidious waits for the right moment, when opponent is least likely to put up any Force defense.

^ To be fair I don't think it's just a Sidious thing. It seems to me like it's part of the sword play to find opportunities for a Force push or a lethal kick.

But of course a Force Push will be much more deadly when the attacker is more powerful than his opponent in the Force. And a kick deadlier when the attacker is much stronger and than his opponent.

It is part of overall all-out combat. The fact that Sidious needed an opportunity implies that he couldn't simply overpower them. It is demonstration of superior TK skill.

And Sidious taught Dooku well in this regard. That's why Kenobi got handled so casually.

Shadow Conspiracy

”Sidious retrieved a pair of elegant-looking lightsabers from within the depths of his robes and ignited them. The blades turned his pale face a hellish red.
Maul and Savage didn’t waste time seeking an advantageous position.

This is right after Sidious force hurls them across the room, and waits for them to get back on their feet, anticipating their attacks.

Shadow Conspiracy
They simply charged, blades humming, trying to overpower Sidious with the animal ferocity of their attack. Sidious caught their sabers on his, the weapons howling and crackling where they touched. Maul saw that Savage was startled by the seemingly frail man’s enormous strength.
Maul stared at his Master’s face. He saw the strain as Sidious called upon the Force to keep the brothers at bay. But there was something else there, too- a terrible pleasure. Sidious began to grin.
The three-pronged duel between Sidious, and Maul and Savage had moved, like some deadly ballet, from the throne room to the steps of the palace. Sidious’s lightsabers twirled swiftly and elegantly, turning aside the furious blows Maul and Savage rained down upon him as the three Sith leapt and spun.
Maul found himself in awe of Sidious. The Sith Lord was astonishingly fast and efficient, and the Force flowed through him effortlessly. His sabers stabbed and slashed through the smallest hole in an opponent’s guard, his movements never carried him a millimetre out of position, and he could sense every attack Maul or Savage made before it developed.
Maul tried to slash past Sidious’s guard, only to find his Master had given ground, causing Maul to extend his arms too far and leave himself slightly unbalanced. It was the smallest stumble, easily corrected, but Sidious saw it- and pounced before Maul could draw himself back. Snarling, he reached out with the Force and slammed Maul against the wall, leaving him lying stunned in a heap.....”

...and then Savage tries to rush Sidious while Sidious attention was still on Maul. Sidious then side-steps and blitzes Savage, stops his attack and allows Maul to comfort his mortally injured brother.

The bolded parts suggest that the brothers were launching most of the attacks, while Sidious was casually deflecting them, and only attacking when he found a hole in their defenses. When we compare this fight to Sidious fight with Mace & company, it seems pretty obvious that Sidious was not as relentless, and that he was fighting more defensively than he was against Mace & company.

One can argue that the brothers attacks forced Sidious on the defensive - which is very unlikely. The text shows that Sidious was not having any trouble at all reacting to their attacks, and even had enough time to dish out his own counter-attacks. And again, when we compare this fight to Sidious' fight with Mace & company, we see how Sidious speed was such that he blitzed two jedi masters before Mace and Kit were able to do a thing to him; he then proceeded to attack Mace and Kit, cutting Kit down in no time, and forcing Windu on the defensive. Sidious was far more relentles with Mace and the jedi masters - possibly drawing far more heavily on the force to amp up his speed - than he was with Maul and Savage.

DARTH POWER
So again don't expect some 10 second stomp from the most anticipated Lightsaber battle of the season.

I love how you put words in my mouth. I never said the fight will be a 10 second stomp. Furthermore, why are you even putting so much emphasis on the length of a duel, when you were against it in the first place (Yoda vs. Dooku?)?

You also need to stop with this "that's how I seen it, therefore that's how it happened." SM once lectured you on why that type of argument should not be used in a vs forum debate. For instance, Sidious was attacking ROTJ Luke with FL for a prolonged period of time, blast after blast. Would you argue that Sidious was struggling to kill Luke, or that he was unable to? No. However, if Sidious had no other showings with FL, then you can possibly argue that. But when we see how Sidious was able to KO Yoda with one single blast, we can conclude that Sidious was not putting nearly as much effort in his lightning despite his intention to kill Luke. Likewise, when we compare Sidious vs. Maul&Savage to his fight against a superior strike force, we see what Sidious is capable of when he let's loose with his speed.

You implied that Sidious was looking for an opportunity to separate the brothers throughout the entire duel, because he was unable to defeat them 1-on-2. Nothing suggests that. Savage was actually the one who pressed the attack while Sidious's attention was still on Maul. After Sidious fatally wounds Savage, he stops his attack. If anything, the entire passage suggests that Sidious was fighting quite comfortably with them (between his pauses to the way he casually deflects their attacks).

Also, while we are on the subject, can you show me the part that suggests Maul's performance was hindered due to him being reluctant to fight Sidious?

The bolded parts suggest that the brothers were launching most of the attacks, while Sidious was casually deflecting them, and only attacking when he found a hole in their defenses.

When we compare this fight to Sidious fight with Mace & company, it seems pretty obvious that Sidious was not as relentless, and that he was fighting more defensively than he was against Mace & company.

One can argue that the brothers attacks forced Sidious on the defensive - which is very unlikely.

The text shows that Sidious was not having any trouble at all reacting to their attacks, and even had enough time to dish out his own counter-attacks.

And again, when we compare this fight to Sidious' fight with Mace & company, we see how Sidious speed was such that he blitzed two jedi masters before Mace and Kit were able to do a thing to him; he then proceeded to attack Mace and Kit, cutting Kit down in no time, and forcing Windu on the defensive.

Sidious was far more relentles with Mace and the jedi masters - possibly drawing far more heavily on the force to amp up his speed - than he was with Maul and Savage.

You also need to stop with this "that's how I seen it, therefore that's how it happened."

SM once lectured you on why that type of argument should not be used in a vs forum debate.

For instance, Sidious was attacking ROTJ Luke with FL for a prolonged period of time, blast after blast. Would you argue that Sidious was struggling to kill Luke, or that he was unable to? No. However, if Sidious had no other showings with FL, then you can possibly argue that. But when we see how Sidious was able to KO Yoda with one single blast, we can conclude that Sidious was not putting nearly as much effort in his lightning despite his intention to kill Luke.

Likewise, when we compare Sidious vs. Maul&Savage to his fight against a superior strike force, we see what Sidious is capable of when he let's loose with his speed.

You implied that Sidious was looking for an opportunity to separate the brothers throughout the entire duel, because he was unable to defeat them 1-on-2. Nothing suggests that.

Savage was actually the one who pressed the attack while Sidious's attention was still on Maul. After Sidious fatally wounds Savage, he stops his attack. If anything, the entire passage suggests that Sidious was fighting quite comfortably with them (between his pauses to the way he casually deflects their attacks).

Now that SIDIOUS_66 has clarified his position—that this isn’t a “10 second stomp,” but that Sidious is superior to the Zabraks separately and combined—I’m in agreement with him.

First, a comparison between Obi-Wan and Sidious in their respective clashes with the brothers cannot be favorable to the former. Kenobi’s display, while impressive, was entirely inconsistent with his previous brawls with Maul and Opress. As was introduced months ago on another thread, both Filoni and the official website make it clear that the battle was circumstantial; Shadow Conspiracy even goes so far as to indicate that the Zabraks were constrained by the limited space: having to coordinate so as to avoid wounding one another, depriving Savage of his primary advantages (his strength, size, and berserker-rage). There is no reason to believe Obi-Wan is, ultimately, equal to or superior than either of the brothers individually—let alone combined. In contrast, Sidious lacks Obi-Wan’s favorable environment: the duel begins inside an expansive throne room and concludes outside on the palace steps, enabling the brothers to unleash themselves utterly. Despite this, Sidious is able to withstand their most powerful attacks despite the inherent disadvantage of Jar’Kai against outright aggressive maneuvers. Moreover, Shadow Conspiracy conveys each of the Zabraks’ sense of awe at Sidious, whom the text notes is “terrifying to behold.” Maul spends practically the entirety of the match glorifying his former Master, all but pausing the clash to furiously masturbate. If the text is reliable, Sidious is faster, more powerful, more skilled, and able to resist their combined strength.

Second, whether or not Sidious was “forced on the defensive” is not illustrated by the text. All that’s said is that “the three-pronged duel between Sidious, and Maul and Savage had moved, like some deadly ballet, from the throne room to the steps of the palace.” We don’t know the direction; if he led them out of the throne room or if they retreated. That Sidious turned aside blows from Maul and Savage doesn’t indicate nor require that he was forced to assume a defensive posture anymore than Dooku was forced to defend against Obi-Wan’s aggression in Attack of the Clones. The fact of the matter is that SIDIOUS_66 is quite right: when there is a lull in the fighting, it is because Sidious has elected not to press an advantage—he begins the duel by ragdolling the Zabraks with the Force but allows them to return to their feet; he “steps back” after killing Savage and allows the brothers a parting moment. When the fight resumes, the text indicates that Maul is “desperate” and is disarmed in quick succession. Even then, Sidious does not kill Maul outright but then uses the Force to literally wipe the floor and walls with him before giving him the same treatment he gives Luke in Return of the Jedi. Once and only once is Sidious noted to strain or struggle or exude effort—and that’s when he’s in simultaneous blade lock. In the next sentence? Maul observes his Master’s “terrible pleasure” and “grin.”

At this point, I’m not sure what’s really being argued here. There is no parity between Sidious and the Zabraks and Obi-Wan; Sidious is better than all of them and not by a negligible margin. There’s a chasm of epic proportions between “lulz Sidious pwned this guys in a 10 second stomp!!1!” which didn't happen and the equally silly notion “OMG SIDIOUS was crying, sweating n shitting blood until he separated them!!1!”