I glimpsed over Legends argument and just want to address one thing. Malgus moving faster than a non-force user can see is in no way shape or form nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto moving so fast Obi-Wan (shortly after AOTC) had trouble following his movements. This same Kit Fisto got blitzed by Palpatine in seconds with Master Windu's help. So yes I think Sidious has the speed and power required to overwhelm Malgus in a few seconds.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Nothing he has posted proves Revan or Malgus has the speed to compete with Sidious. Hell, he hasn't even proved that their speed is beyond any of the masters Sidious did blitz. But at least he can't say no one gave him a chance to make his case.
Malgus finally spotted Master Zallow ten paces away, whirling, spinning, his green blade a blur of precision and speed.
Check the skill of this Jedi Master?
Heck, look at how skilled Jedi Master Kao was in lightsaber combat arts. I have never seen a Jedi who could duel with both single and double-bladed lightsabers simultaneously with extreme proficiency.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You do realize that in order to deflect blasters bolts, it requires precognition and instant reaction, right?
Instant reaction time becomes relevant in certain situations. For example; when the enemy fires from close distance and the Jedi has to switch from non-combat state to combat-ready state to save himself/herself. It is the situations like these where exceptional precognition and reaction rate comes in to play and makes difference.
As an example; Coleman Trebor came to fight Count Dooku in Geonosis and his reaction rate wasn't good enough to counter close-range blaster fire from a skilled arms wielder even when he was in combat-ready state. In contrast, Darth Malak (in Leviathan) went from non-combat state to combat-ready state instantaneously when Carth Onasi suddenly opened fire on him from close distance. And skills wise, Carth Onasi was a celebrated Republic officer.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Each of these Jedi can deflect numerous blaster bolts with ease.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Not only was Fisto able to react to Grievous's (who has better speed feats than Revan) lightsaber blows,
Veela and two of the others—reacting slightly faster than the rest—fired their blasters, the green blade transformed into a spinning, twirling blur as he used it to deflect their bolts back in the direction of the shooters.
Can you determine Revan's SPS rate from this? No, but blur word seems to indicate that it would be substantial.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
but his own lightsaber strikes were also fast enough to force Grievous on the defensive.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So how is it that Revan has greater reaction speed than these three jedi masters? See again, you make another claim about Revan superiority despite him having no superior feats to prove it.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I glimpsed over Legends argument and just want to address one thing. Malgus moving faster than a non-force user can see is in no way shape or form nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto moving so fast Obi-Wan (shortly after AOTC) had trouble following his movements. This same Kit Fisto got blitzed by Palpatine in seconds with Master Windu's help. So yes I think Sidious has the speed and power required to overwhelm Malgus in a few seconds.
Forget that statement about Malgus and concentrate on this revelation.
Malgus finally spotted Master Zallow ten paces away, whirling, spinning, his green blade a blur of precision and speed.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another wannabe judge here.Revan outsmarted a foe in just a couple of steps who was formidable enough to go toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen in combat. This is more then enough evidence of Revan's exceptional precognitive abilities.
Heck, Revan's reaction rate is instantaneous, as per revelation in his novel.
You guys are feeling insecure and nothing else.
THIS is what Mr tempest is talking about, you just spout a bunch of bullshit.
Which jedi/sith in 25 000 years of sw lore/history has not gone toe to toe with an expert swordsman whether it be an enemy, their sparring partner or their master?
Instantaneous? That someone makes Revan godlike and ubar? Did you know even weakling acolytes and padawans have the same precognitive abilities to deflect blaster bolts as well which also requires instaneous action?
What? You going to argue that these neophytes are amazing swordsman with godlike precognitive abilities?
Only the crappiest and worst sith/jedi can't do a simple blaster bolt deflect, Revan, having these "instantaneous precognitive abilities" doesn't make him more special than other guys, its his actual accomplishments that do.
So yes, your argument is a steaming pile uh shiet like what everyone says it is.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYes and you know what? I still think your argument is crap and full of assumptions based on what you want to see and believe.
Recheck my response to member SIDIOUS 66. I provided numerous data to support my point. Heck, I have summed-up the situation in this post in easiest possible manner for you.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDYou damn right do, like ignoring the scripted scenes in the TFU series which show both starkiller and vader having incredible displays of force feats as well as ignoring plenty of canon from the CW series too claiming its :
I don't ignore any sources. Vastly superior feats arguments sounds laughable since Revan have some of his own as well.
"oh me gosh, its so overpowered, lets use teh movies as a basis for realistic powers" and then you proceed to use the TOR trailers which displays the same level as powers as the TFU videos.
Thats why alot of people here don't take you seriously, especially considering your obsession with Revan and co.
Legend, 'blur' is one of the most commonly used words to describe a Jedi. Practically every one has that under their belt. It isn't going to win you any awards here.
Likewise reacting in 'just an instant' or performing 'instantaneous precision adjustments' is hardly impressive. Instant is already an extremely vague term, but the way it was used suggests that it was merely a stock descriptive phrase. Its a very common one.
Finally 'lightning-fast reactions' is obvious hyperbole.
Originally posted by Jedi Mom
btw, does anyone know if the darth vader and the lost command comic series is canon? because my friend says Vader brings down a scysraper with the force.
It is canon but I don't recall the skyscraper part. He does, however, destroy a temple from the inside with the Force.
Legend, you have not proved Revan and Malgus are faster than the three jedi who accompanied Mace. The only thing you have provided are quotes and feats indicating that they are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists.
The_Tempest has also given you quotes and feats regarding Tiin, Fist and Kolar, indicating that they too are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists. The only difference is: the feats Tempest provided for the three jedi masters are superior to the ones you provided for Revan and Malgus.
Revan may have been one of the greatest fighters of his time, but had he been in the PT era, he might not have stood out as much.
I'm not going to waste my time debating with you, because I honestly do believe you realize that Revan is completely outmatched here.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I glimpsed over Legends argument and just want to address one thing. Malgus moving faster than a non-force user can see is in no way shape or form nearly as impressive as Kit Fisto moving so fast Obi-Wan (shortly after AOTC) had trouble following his movements. This same Kit Fisto got blitzed by Palpatine in seconds with Master Windu's help. So yes I think Sidious has the speed and power required to overwhelm Malgus in a few seconds.
lol
Sidious would be a phantom in front of Malgus, and that's an understatement.
Only one being can match Sidious in his use of Force Speed, and that's Plagueis. Mace Windu could fight hundreds of times faster than a regular Jedi as stated by Ian in the Making of Star Wars EP III documentary...he demonstrates this use of Force Speed against the Army of Super Droids in the cartoon. Mace Windu, Luke Skywalker (appeared as though wielding 20 lightsabers), Yoda, Sidious, and Plagueis were in a league of their own in regards to Force Speed. But Sidious and Plagueis were at the top.
Sidious was stated by Darth Maul to be moving so fast that a slight twitch of the wrist would kill him...and Maul wielded the versatile double-bladed lightsaber, only surpassed in versatility by dual wielding two single-bladed lightsabers.
Originally posted by Dolos
To make this even slightly fair it should be:Sidious
Dooku
VaderAgainst
Vitiate
Revan
BaneAnd team one still totally decimates.
Vitiate is not an excetional duelist.
lol, I just now noticed I forgot the P in exceptional twice in a row in my previous post.
Really though, there's not much Vitiate can do here. He'd probably just walk into a lightsaber or something.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Vitiate is not an excetional duelist.lol, I just now noticed I forgot the P in exceptional twice in a row in my previous post.
Really though, there's not much Vitiate can do here. He'd probably just walk into a lightsaber or something.
Yet Vitiate still slaugthered Revan while he was regenerating from being burned by Force lightning, as Vitiate disintegrated Revan's Droid companion with a Force blast. (source=Revan novels).
But hey, if he wants to use a lightsaber maybe he'll just make a few dozen copies of himself, then it's 30 to 3. Group 1 is outnumbered 10 to 1, and they still win.
Originally posted by shinkoryu
THIS is what Mr tempest is talking about, you just spout a bunch of bullshit.Which jedi/sith in 25 000 years of sw lore/history has not gone toe to toe with an expert swordsman whether it be an enemy, their sparring partner or their master?
Sorry! I did not get this statement.
I am talking about Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard. These individuals were capable of going toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen; Jedi and Sith.
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Instantaneous? That someone makes Revan godlike and ubar? Did you know even weakling acolytes and padawans have the same precognitive abilities to deflect blaster bolts as well which also requires instaneous action?
And why do so many of these acolytes and padawans get shot during combat, if their reaction rate is instantaneous? (Sometimes by just a lone fire-arms wielder.)
Originally posted by shinkoryu
What? You going to argue that these neophytes are amazing swordsman with godlike precognitive abilities?
Originally posted by shinkoryu
Only the crappiest and worst sith/jedi can't do a simple blaster bolt deflect, Revan, having these "instantaneous precognitive abilities" doesn't make him more special than other guys, its his actual accomplishments that do.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
For example; when the enemy fires from close distance and the Jedi has to switch from non-combat state to combat-ready state to save himself/herself. It is the situations like these where exceptional precognition and reaction rate comes in to play and makes difference.As an example; Coleman Trebor came to fight Count Dooku in Geonosis and his reaction rate wasn't good enough to counter close-range blaster fire from a skilled arms wielder even when he was in combat-ready state. In contrast, Darth Malak (in Leviathan) went from non-combat state to combat-ready state instantaneously when Carth Onasi suddenly opened fire on him from close distance. And skills wise, Carth Onasi was a celebrated Republic officer.
Also, Revan have fought through entire armies; doesn't this tells you anything about his abilities?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So yes, your argument is a steaming pile uh shiet like what everyone says it is.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes and you know what? I still think your argument is crap and full of assumptions based on what you want to see and believe.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You damn right do, like ignoring the scripted scenes in the TFU series which show both starkiller and vader having incredible displays of force feats as well as ignoring plenty of canon from the CW series too claiming its :"oh me gosh, its so overpowered, lets use teh movies as a basis for realistic powers" and then you proceed to use the TOR trailers which displays the same level as powers as the TFU videos.
TOR Trailers are also not game-play.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thats why alot of people here don't take you seriously, especially considering your obsession with Revan and co.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Legend, you have not proved Revan and Malgus are faster than the three jedi who accompanied Mace. The only thing you have provided are quotes and feats indicating that they are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists.
About those 3 Jedi Masters;
Kolar: Sparring matches prove nothing. Jedi don't kill in sparring matches; they simply test their abilities in safest possible manner in them. Also, Mace got better, didn't he?
Yes, Kolar handled Vos. Good. However, I don't recall Vos as being among the Elites of the Jedi Order. Any other person of note whom Kolar handled?
Kolar sounds like PT equivalent of Kavar from TOR at best.
Fisto: He handled Grievous because of his proficiency with Form I of lightsaber combat. However, he sucked in one-on-one confrontation against a skilled duelist such as Assaj. His failure against Sidious doesn't surprises me.
Tin: Apart from verbal fellatos; I don't see any major accomplishments of this Jedi in combat either.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
The_Tempest has also given you quotes and feats regarding Tiin, Fist and Kolar, indicating that they too are powerful, fast, and excetional duelists. The only difference is: the feats Tempest provided for the three jedi masters are superior to the ones you provided for Revan and Malgus.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Revan may have been one of the greatest fighters of his time, but had he been in the PT era, he might not have stood out as much.
I don't know about PT but it was hinted in SWTOR Campaign Guide that had Revan been born in Kun's era; he would have been a role model Jedi for that time. And Kun's era includes names like Nomi and Ulic.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not going to waste my time debating with you, because I honestly do believe you realize that Revan is completely outmatched here.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan did have his crew with him when he fought through the Star Forge. It isn't even as impressive as the Exile fighting through Trayas Academy.
Bastilla also remarked: "If it weren't for you, Darth Malak would have destroyed the Republic, eliminated the Council, and all but wiped out the Jedi. They owe you everything!"
Also, Revan have fought through armies of even Mandalorians and single-handedly dealt with heavy odds.
A major hint:
Revan had fought plenty of Basilisks during his campaign against the Mandalorians.
This proves that Revan was not just commanding during the Mandalorian Wars but was also fighting in the battles. Heck, Revan killed the Mandalore himself.
We don't even know how many enemies Revan and friends had to fight through. There weren't that many in the game. The fact is that there were also other Jedi fighting through the SF, and who made it to Malak. To say that Revan fought through an entire army by himself is ludicrous. He had plenty of help.
Because Revan beat Malak and stopped the Star Forge, not because he fought through armies.
Where do you get single-handed from that? Revan commanded huge armies, theres nothing indicating that he ever fought by himself outside of specific duels as you mentioned.
Originally posted by Nephthys
We don't even know how many enemies Revan and friends had to fight through. There weren't that many in the game. The fact is that there were also other Jedi fighting through the SF, and who made it to Malak. To say that Revan fought through an entire army by himself is ludicrous. He had plenty of help.
Sith Commander particularly reported to Malak that Revan destroyed a whole army of Star Forge's battle droids. After this, Malak ordered the Sith Commander to send a huge chunk of Sith forces towards Revan.
Of-course, Star Forge was a huge structure and it would have been impossible for a single person to clear all of it in such a limited span of time. So it makes sense that other Jedi were sent.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Because Revan beat Malak and stopped the Star Forge, not because he fought through armies.
Revan's struggle against the Sith Empire began from the events of Endar Spire and the whole journey was filled with tough challenges.
As once hinted in the official data bank:
The quest for the Star Forge, which spanned worlds, kept Revan and Bastila working side-by-side, and thrust Bastila into difficult and challenging roles as a Jedi.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Where do you get single-handed from that? Revan commanded huge armies, theres nothing indicating that he ever fought by himself outside of specific duels as you mentioned.
Revan had fought plenty of Basilisks during his campaign against the Mandalorians.
The whole statement in the novel suggests fighting on the ground and no role of commanding.
In addition, their are canonical images of Revan engaged in combat during Mandalorian Wars. This makes sense since he was visiting and exploring planets during this time.