Sids, Dooku, Vader vs Malgus, Revan, Bane

Started by S_W_LeGenD17 pages

Originally posted by Dolos
Yet Vitiate still slaugthered Revan while he was regenerating from being burned by Force lightning, as Vitiate disintegrated Revan's Droid companion with a Force blast. (source=Revan novels).

But hey, if he wants to use a lightsaber maybe he'll just make a few dozen copies of himself, then it's 30 to 3. Group 1 is outnumbered 10 to 1, and they still win.


Easy for you to say.

Vitiate is so damn powerful that he have handled several powerful adversaries simultaneously and prevailed, in different eras. Check Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia.

He can eliminate the likes of Vader and Dooku himself.

He could imo.

You think he could defeat Vader and Dooku at the same time?!

Originally posted by ares834

Let me guess; you are clueless about Sith Emperor's capabilities.

Here is just ONE example:

YouTube video

Sith Emperor broke the entire Jedi Strike Team easily.

Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia contains detailed information about the Sith Emperor. Buy it and read it. Very informative.

Why thank you for posting a video I have seen several times already. Seeing once again that Vitiate is capable of defeating several relevantly featless Jedi is great evidence that Vader and Dooku are no match for the Emperor. After all, it's not like they haven't done similar things either!

And would you mind giving me a page number for these supposedly informative pages about Vitiate's powers? I've breezed through it before but can't recall anything suggesting he could defeat both Sith Lords in combat.

Originally posted by ares834
You think he could defeat Vader and Dooku at the same time?!

Yes. He has major mind-hax.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yes. He has major mind-hax.

I'll admit, he could potentially mind **** them both. However, I've also seen evidence that his TP powers are due to prep and rituals... So, I dunno.

He seemed fine to attack Revan with it when he attacked him without any prep.

Originally posted by ares834
Why thank you for posting a video I have seen several times already. Seeing once again that Vitiate is capable of defeating several relevantly featless Jedi is great evidence that Vader and Dooku are no match for the Emperor. After all, it's not like they haven't done similar things either!

I was waiting for this. 😈

--------------------

Tol Braga:-

Duel with Hero of Tython and Kira Carsen:

Most notable feat:

His greatest achievement as a Jedi to date was when he dueled Sith Lord Darth Sajar to a draw–and then convinced the enemy to abandon the path of darkness and train as a Jedi. (Codex entry)

Darth Sajar was a DARK COUNCIL member. Yes, you heard this correct. Never in history have any Jedi managed to convert a DARK COUNCIL member to light.

Thanks to this effort of Tol Braga; the Jedi came to know about the Children of the Emperor and prepared against this threat.

--------------------

Hero of Tython needs no introduction. He is being promoted as a Champion of Light.

--------------------

Warren Sedoru was one of the most acclaimed Jedi of his time. Survived several near-death situations.

--------------------

Leeha Narezz is the only individual of this Strike Team whose capabilties are unknown to date or to me. However, logically, Tol Braga would not have chosen an amateur to confront the freaking Sith Emperor.

--------------------

It is possible that the Sith Emperor was in his original body during this encounter. He is wearing a MASK in this encounter.

Overpowering this Jedi Strike Team is just ONE example. Sith Emperor have handled multiple powerful adversaries on other occasions.

A few that I recall are:

- Darth Lokess who led a whole Dark Council against the Sith Emperor. Most of them died in a single blast of power once they reached the Imperial Citadel. The Sith Emperor imprisoned Darth Lokess and tortured her to death.

- Sith Emperor summoned 9 Dark Council members to his place during the time of Revan and none of them left alive, as per information provided by Scourge.

- When the trio of Revan, Meetra and Scourge were facing the Sith Emperor; the latter was confident that he would handle the trio. Scourge realized that all of them could die and therefore betrayed the Jedi.

Wo whatever hints we are getting; they reveal that Sith Emperor had no trouble in handling multiple powerful adversaries simultaneously.

Heck, this guy was killing powerful enemies when he was a child.

Originally posted by ares834
And would you mind giving me a page number for these supposedly informative pages about Vitiate's powers? I've breezed through it before but can't recall anything suggesting he could defeat both Sith Lords in combat.

My copy will arrive next month. I have learned a few details from others in the meantime.

Also, you know how many Sith Lords Sith Emperor broke on Nathema prior to his mega-ritual?

8000 Sith Lords and quickly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
😕

Sorry! I did not get this statement.

I am talking about Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard. These individuals were capable of going toe-to-toe with EXPERT swordsmen; Jedi and Sith.

ok
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[b]Empty statements will not do
. Provide evidence.[/B]
This is what you exactly do every single time.

Example, quoting sources like
"Mr M jumps in the air, spins his lightsaber with great velocity and has quick reflexes"

And then your argument would be like "SEE the quote says this and that, therefore he is GOD!11!!1"

Our point is, you make extreme assumptions based on a single quote.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

And why do so many of these acolytes and padawans get shot during combat, if their reaction rate is instantaneous? (Sometimes by just a lone fire-arms wielder.)

You're not really that much of an intelligent guy are you? You don't get my point either do you?

Im simply stating that being stated to have "instantaneous reaction" isn't something special, nor should it be used in an argument to uplift one characters status especially when the majority of characters in the mythos has demonstrated the said ability which is not only limited to the powerhouses but even the "lower ranked" characters.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

As I mentioned earlier, some situations show if a Force-wielder have exceptional precognitive abilities or not;
But thats it, what you basically do, is find a quote that states so and so doing so, and then make broad assumptions and pass it off as fact.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, Revan have fought through entire armies; doesn't this tells you anything about his abilities?
No it doesn't, because i actually look at the facts. Yes, Revan is a strong character and an exceptional duelist. But i don't look at exaggerations from a devoted fanboy with raging hormones.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

So Revan's performance against the Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard is also not convincing?
You don't get the point, its your argument, its not about if Revan is imrpessive or not.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I prefer TFU novels over its games for citation purposes. Game-play based interpretations can be subjective; information provided in novels is clear-cut.
Ergo, you ignore canon.

First off, you've never used the novels for "citation purposes" but ignored that entirely as well.

Secondly, you always use the comics, which is far less detailed that both the cutscenes and novels which makes the characters feats look more diminished.

Thirdly, according to the directors, the "Scripted scenes" ARE actually what happens in action AND are canon. Its simply an [/i]interactive cutscene[/i], much like the quick time events in Heavy Rain.

Last but not least, you actually at one point stated how you would ignore the TFU series cut scenes and interactive cut scenes because of how "overpowered" it is, and then claim you want to use the feats in the movies as a "benchmark" because it is more "realistic",and right after that you use TOR trailers which display almost, or in some cases, the same level of "overpowerness" as the ones shown in TFU 1 and 2, to back your already poorly constructed "arguments"

"legend", you are not only a lousy and useless debater, but at the same time, you're an unbelievably annoying hypocrite, you never actually get someones point because you're so incredibly narrow minded, when someone points out a hole in your argument, instead of analyzing it, you actually come up with even more rubbish arguments instead of realizing what the other poster is trying to tell you.

This only proves that you are not a very smart person, someone who only does things methodically without logic, analysis or intelligence and an outright idiot.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

I have no solution for blind PT/OT worshipping.
Calling other people "PT/OT worshippers" does not and will not change the fact that you are KMC's worse debater, nor does it change the fact that you frequently masturbate to your favourite fictional character aka Lord Revan.

Btw is that tiny statue of Revan still trapped between uranus? I suggest to pull it out and then start using whatever is left of your decaying brain matter.

lol bless you, stranger

Originally posted by Nephthys
He seemed fine to attack Revan with it when he attacked him without any prep.

I submit to you that Dooku and especially Vader are powerful enough to interrupt any attempt by Vitiate to subdue them. Once the "mindhax" is out of the equation, he's fvcked.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

[B]Most notable feat:

His greatest achievement as a Jedi to date was when he dueled Sith Lord Darth Sajar to a draw–and then convinced the enemy to abandon the path of darkness and train as a Jedi. (Codex entry)

Darth Sajar was a DARK COUNCIL member. Yes, you heard this correct. Never in history have any Jedi managed to convert a DARK COUNCIL member to light.

[/B]

Big deal, its clear to me you haven't actually played the game.

I have an Imperial Agent character(a SEXY female pureblood sith agent), and guess who was i able to gun down during a fight(a tough fight).

DARTH JADUS. Who is he? A DARK COUNCIL member. Not just any DARK COUNCIL member, but the most powerful DARK COUNCIL member whose powers have been stated to be "Second to none, other than the emperor".

A powerful Sith lord that has been shown to

Spoiler:
Hold a huge part of a sith warship together with his powers after being blown up to keep himself alive
. Shown to be able to bend space and time by teleporting across the room before the IA's companion Kaliyo , could even pull the trigger and choke her at the same time.

And what happens? He gets shot down by the Imperial Agent, not easily but he was beaten by a non force user.

Jadus, unlike "darth sajar", isn't some feat less wonder.

So yes, you yet again prove my point about how you make broad assumptions based on a few "empty quotes"(your very own words).

😂

Nicely done. After thoroughly reaming him, I suggest you ignore him henceforth. That is the most fitting and deliciously cruel punishment of all: having his arguments ignored as if they weren't even there....

Originally posted by The_Tempest
😂

Nicely done. After thoroughly reaming him, I suggest you ignore him henceforth. That is the most fitting and deliciously cruel punishment of all: having his arguments ignored as if they weren't even there....

Probably true mate, you can't argue with a butthole farting out stink gas, thats basically what this doodoo head is.

He's just an ass crack farting everytime he tries to argue. All i can "hear" is "poot poot poot, proat proat proat ", and when he gets really enraged and tries to bring out more bs "arguments", he actually sprays his poo all over the place.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
This is what you exactly do every single time.

You expect me to prove the claims that you made? 😕

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Example, quoting sources like
"Mr M jumps in the air, spins his lightsaber with great velocity and has quick reflexes"

And then your argument would be like "SEE the quote says this and that, therefore he is GOD!11!!1"

Our point is, you make extreme assumptions based on a single quote.


You are probably not getting the whole picture.

Revan, Scourge and Meetra planned to assassinate the Sith Emperor. Once inside the Citadel, their cover was blown and the Sith Emperor's Imperial Guard engaged them in combat. According to all accounts, the Imperial Guard individuals were highly skilled warriors, capable of matching Jedi and Sith in combat. The Imperial Guard individuals gave tough time to both Meetra and Scourge as an example. Both of these individuals were EXPERT duelists. However, Revan cut-down an Imperial Guard individual in just a couple of steps (only a few seconds) due to his exceptional precognitive abilities and I cited his performance here.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You're not really that much of an intelligent guy are you? You don't get my point either do you?

Please refrain from these kinds of statements, if you want a mature discussion. Clarify better like you did below:

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Im simply stating that being stated to have "instantaneous reaction" isn't something special, nor should it be used in an argument to uplift one characters status especially when the majority of characters in the mythos has demonstrated the said ability which is not only limited to the powerhouses but even the "lower ranked" characters.

Nicely put this time.

However, what about the comparison that I made:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Instant reaction time becomes relevant in certain situations. For example; when the enemy fires from close distance and the Jedi has to switch from non-combat state to combat-ready state to save himself/herself. It is the situations like these where exceptional precognition and reaction rate comes in to play and makes difference.

As an example; Coleman Trebor came to fight Count Dooku in Geonosis and his reaction rate wasn't good enough to counter close-range blaster fire from a skilled arms wielder even when he was in combat-ready state. In contrast, Darth Malak (in Leviathan) went from non-combat state to combat-ready state instantaneously when Carth Onasi suddenly opened fire on him from close distance. And skills wise, Carth Onasi was a celebrated Republic officer.

How you perceive this?

Originally posted by shinkoryu
But thats it, what you basically do, is find a quote that states so and so doing so, and then make broad assumptions and pass it off as fact.

See the comparison of Darth Malak and Coleman Trebor above as an example.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
No it doesn't, because i actually look at the facts. Yes, Revan is a strong character and an exceptional duelist. But i don't look at exaggerations from a devoted fanboy with raging hormones.

Here;

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As per Drew's revelation; only 2 companions accompanied Revan on Star Forge. Still Revan did major work as noted by Sith commander stationed on the Star Forge and even Darth Malak himself who eventually acknowledged that Revan had exceeded his expectations.

Bastilla also remarked: "If it weren't for you, Darth Malak would have destroyed the Republic, eliminated the Council, and all but wiped out the Jedi. They owe you everything!"

Also, Revan have fought through armies of even Mandalorians and single-handedly dealt with heavy odds.

A major hint:

Revan had fought plenty of Basilisks during his campaign against the Mandalorians.

This proves that Revan was not just commanding during the Mandalorian Wars but was also fighting in the battles. Heck, Revan killed the Mandalore himself.

&

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sith Commander particularly reported to Malak that Revan destroyed a whole army of Star Forge's battle droids. After this, Malak ordered the Sith Commander to send a huge chunk of Sith forces towards Revan.

Now tell me; how can I have a decent debate with member (Nephthys) and not you guys?

Reason is that he has decent knowledge of TOR lore and he also knows how to debate. And he is more of a fan of PT/OT lore then TOR lore, if I am not wrong about his preferences.

So try to remedy your own debate related shortcomings as well.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
You don't get the point, its your argument, its not about if Revan is imrpessive or not.

I explained in detail above now.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Ergo, you ignore canon.

No.

You want me to use game-play mechanics for citation purposes now? 🙄

The benefit of TFU novels is to eliminate ambiguities (in TFU games) and canonify the exploits of Gallen. So it makes perfect sense to use TFU novels for citation purposes.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
First off, you've never used the novels for "citation purposes" but ignored that entirely as well.

Bullshit. Ask (Nephthys) or any other member with whom I had lengthy debates.

In fact, the information that I am providing in italic is from canonical sources.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Secondly, you always use the comics, which is far less detailed that both the cutscenes and novels which makes the characters feats look more diminished.

I do use cutscenes and footage for citation purposes. Also, TFU novel contains detailed explanations of events in TFU game.

However, as Drew once pointed out in one of his newsletters;

Let's set the record straight right now: games and books are NOT the same thing. In a game, we have to constantly progress the power level of a character to keep things interesting. In a book, any character progression is slow and arduous – it often makes up the character arc, which is the whole point of the book. The two mediums are meant to convey different experiences and the two representations of the character cannot simply be laid overtop of each other.

Regardless of this, I do not ignore important canonical depictions in games such as cutscenes and footage. Heck, it makes sense to cite all "statements" made in the games because they too provide solid interpretations of events and the means to evaluate the actions of characters and their abilities.

Now, if their are continuity errors/conflicts between sources; then this is not my fault. I try to work with all sources, though I also prefer to identify RETCONS.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Thirdly, according to the directors, the "Scripted scenes" ARE actually what happens in action AND are canon. Its simply an [/i]interactive cutscene[/i], much like the quick time events in Heavy Rain.

I know.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Last but not least, you actually at one point stated how you would ignore the TFU series cut scenes and interactive cut scenes because of how "overpowered" it is, and then claim you want to use the feats in the movies as a "benchmark" because it is more "realistic",and right after that you use TOR trailers which display almost, or in some cases, the same level of "overpowerness" as the ones shown in TFU 1 and 2, to back your already poorly constructed "arguments"

I don't recall making such a statement. I may have stated that I would avoid using game-play mechanics for references; not the cutscenes, statements and footage materials.

If I ever have made such a statement; it would have been a typo error since I often edit my responses several times after I have posted them to eliminate any mistakes/errors. unfortunately, edit time is very short in this forum.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
"legend", you are not only a lousy and useless debater, but at the same time, you're an unbelievably annoying hypocrite, you never actually get someones point because you're so incredibly narrow minded, when someone points out a hole in your argument, instead of analyzing it, you actually come up with even more rubbish arguments instead of realizing what the other poster is trying to tell you.

No. Some members misunderstand me and are probably not 'used to' my debating style.

Point is that many PT/OT fans are unwilling to work with me to reach a middle-ground. They will do anything to put down the elites of TOR era lore without doing sufficient homework themselves. This is a sign of bias and it is evident from their responses.

I do like PT/OT lore and you will be surprised that Yoda, Anakin, Maul, Sidious and Dooku are one of my favorite characters in Star Wars. However, I am not in to needless hype either.

Fact is that EU have changed a lot about how many Star Wars fans may interpret character rankings. EU have overpowered Force-wielders and all the aforementioned PT/OT characters compete with other EU characters in terms of feats and accomplishments on the basis of EU materials and not movies. Unfortunately, some characters are much more well-defined then others. Due to missing bits; debaters are forced to rely on shortest possible hints to make a portrayal of a not so well-defined character.

Also, I can judge the intentions of a debater early on. If he/she is simply going to put down all of the information that I provided without appreciating the beauty of it or attempt to learn about it or work with me; then he/she is not worthy of being appreciated by me or I wouldn't bother to explain things to her in the level of detail that I may otherwise would want to.

Just consider your case; your responding to my posts so this gives me motive to explain my points better then I would early on. This is how we can reach a middle-ground in debates. I hope that we do reach on something. Otherwise, tough.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
This only proves that you are not a very smart person, someone who only does things methodically without logic, analysis or intelligence and an outright idiot.

I disgree. I debate Star Wars for fun and not for writing thesis. You don't know about my intellect in the subjects where I really do specialize in.

I advice you to debate for fun as well but do take points of others seriously. You can do this and you will be a better debater then many in this manner. The real quality of a great debater is that he can work with any kind of debater. Unfortunately, many simply start flaming others before a debate even reaches this point. This not just spoils the debating scene but paves way for resentments and useless rivalries.

I cannot work with (The_Tempest) with the kind of attitude he shows towards me.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Calling other people "PT/OT worshippers" does not and will not change the fact that you are KMC's worse debater, nor does it change the fact that you frequently masturbate to your favourite fictional character aka Lord Revan.

And you qualify to make this assumption in what manner?

You won't examples of debaters with whom you cannot even have a debate?

One is in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=562952&pagenumber=1

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Btw is that tiny statue of Revan still trapped between uranus? I suggest to pull it out and then start using whatever is left of your decaying brain matter.

Sorry. I strongly advice you to refrain from these kinds of remarks. I have no beef with you and I want to keep it this way. However, my tolerance have limits.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
lol bless you, stranger

I submit to you that Dooku and especially Vader are powerful enough to interrupt any attempt by Vitiate to subdue them. Once the "mindhax" is out of the equation, he's fvcked.

Not really. He could still overwhelm them with Force Lightning. Plus he could buy himself time to use his mental domination by using shadow clone no jutsu to distract them.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]Most notable feat:

His greatest achievement as a Jedi to date was when he dueled Sith Lord Darth Sajar to a draw–and then convinced the enemy to abandon the path of darkness and train as a Jedi. (Codex entry)

Darth Sajar was a DARK COUNCIL member. Yes, you heard this correct. Never in history have any Jedi managed to convert a DARK COUNCIL member to light.

Thanks to this effort of Tol Braga; the Jedi came to know about the Children of the Emperor and prepared against this threat. [/B]

You should probably mention that he converted Sajar after several days of constant fighting.

Nephthys
Not really. He could still overwhelm them with Force Lightning.

lolno

They have their lightsabers, which was more than sufficient to keep Revan from harm until the fool tried to take it on barehanded.

Nephthys
Plus he could buy himself time to use his mental domination by using shadow clone no jutsu to distract them.

With preparation and on a dark side nexus? Perhaps. But as we saw from the confrontation with the Jedi Knight, those clones are woefully inadequate. Vader and Dooku are far too powerful for Vitiate to take on, especially together, without preparation and a favorable setting.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Not really. He could still overwhelm them with Force Lightning. Plus he could buy himself time to use his mental domination by using shadow clone no jutsu to distract them.

Absolutely. Thank you.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
Big deal, its clear to me you haven't actually played the game.

I have an Imperial Agent character(a SEXY female pureblood sith agent), and guess who was i able to gun down during a fight(a tough fight).

DARTH JADUS. Who is he? A DARK COUNCIL member. Not just any DARK COUNCIL member, but the most powerful DARK COUNCIL member whose powers have been stated to be "Second to none, other than the emperor".

A powerful Sith lord that has been shown to

Spoiler:
Hold a huge part of a sith warship together with his powers after being blown up to keep himself alive
. Shown to be able to bend space and time by teleporting across the room before the IA's companion Kaliyo , could even pull the trigger and choke her at the same time.

And what happens? He gets shot down by the Imperial Agent, not easily but he was beaten by a non force user.

Jadus, unlike "darth sajar", isn't some feat less wonder.

So yes, you yet again prove my point about how you make broad assumptions based on a few "empty quotes"(your very own words).


Thanks for sharing this information.

Well, it reveals that how dangerous even (non) Force-sensitives can be.

As an example;

Mandalore the Ultimate once knocked out Malak with a single blow; shocking. Malak was young and not so experienced during this time but still he was no slouch as he easily defeated another notable Mandalorian of his time, Demagol, later on (a Force-sensitive Mandalorian; not trained in the ways of Force but very skilled combatant nonetheless) and would have killed Demagol, if his friends had not stopped him. This is why I consider Revan's victory over Mandalore the Ultimate in single combat as a big thing.

Also,

Mandalore the Preserver (Canderous Ordo) helped Meetra against Darth Nihilus.

So it is possible for highly skilled (non) Force-sensitives to change the game sometimes.

In addition,

I recall that Sidious died at the hands of Han Solo and a not so popular Jedi.

In the nutshell shit happens.

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Your most recent post about me is very insulting. Sorry. I cannot tolerate this. Reported