Sids, Dooku, Vader vs Malgus, Revan, Bane

Started by Dolos17 pages

Originally posted by Nephthys
Whaaaaaaat? Bulllspit. When did it do that?

Plus, that would be really inefficient in terms of power. Al the energy would be going to light instead of heat.

Either way, no, Vitiates still no1.

Go to the Palpatine page on Wookieepedia, and read Powers and Abilities - Force Powers.

Vitiate is #3, behind Plagueis at second place. Vitiate vaporized Revan's Droid, Plagueis completely disintegrated everything in his path...Plagueis and Sidious' Grand Experiment (Which resulted in Anakin's conception) was beyond any ritual (including Nathema) that Vitiate ever performed in terms of Sith Alchemy.

Although it may not be certain when Sidious killed his drunken master, by Dark Empire Sidious obviously surpassed his master.

Wookieepedia isn't a credible source. It has the source listed as a video game. That's pretty iffy. It could just be a gamplay power.

I'm not even sure if that game/expansion is canon. A third force arising to fight the Rebels and Empire?

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious wielded the second strongest Force lightning in the Mythos.

No. He is among the highly proficient practitioners of Force Lightning but not second.

Originally posted by Dolos
Stronger than Vitiate's by miles.

Originally posted by Dolos
The only being who wielded superior Force lightning was Son...and Vader with the Kaibuur Crystal.

Any example?

As far as example of Vader is concerned, that crystal allowed him to use Force Lightning. But nothing indicates that it was the most lethal burst of Force Lightning ever.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious' Force lightning lit up the surface of an entire planet.

When?

Sidious rarely used it to it's full lethality. He charred victims instantly, but that use of Force lightning is equaled by Bane - and surpassed by Plagueis. However in Empire's End Palpatine's lightning killed a Jedi instantly, and mortally injured a Jedi master, and Palpatine was dying at that point. This use of Force lightning could easily be compared to Vitiate's use in overpowering a squad of Jedi in the TOR MMORPG.

As far as Son's lethality, he incapacitated Father with it, a God-like being invulnerable to lightsaber attacks when using the Force.

Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption apparently? I tried searching through a walkthrough but it was so boring I gave up. That game barely even has cutscenes. The Emperor only appears in galaxy conquest anyway, which certainly isn't canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption apparently? I tried searching through a walkthrough but it was so boring I gave up. That game barely even has cutscenes. The Emperor only appears in galaxy conquest anyway, which certainly isn't canon.

How is it not canon?

Because it's a video game?

TFU is a video game, TOR is a video game.

And that's another thing, the combustion of his Force lightning killed Galen Marek. Galen Marek's clone demonstrated the most lethal Force lightning in the mythos, which vaporized everything and everyone around him, yet it paled in comparison to the Emperor's.

It isn't a story-mode. You know in strategy games when you create a campaign and pick how many computer teams you're fighting, what race you are etc etc? That. It's basically single-player multiplayer.

Haha, what? No it didn't, Marek committed suicide and blew himself up.

Originally posted by Nephthys
It isn't a story-mode. You know in strategy games when you create a campaign and pick how many computer teams you're fighting, what race you are etc etc? That. It's basically single-player multiplayer.

Haha, what? No it didn't, Marek committed suicide and blew himself up.

How do you know it wasn't in the story mode? How would that scene just be in a random campaign?

He didn't blow himself up, it was a blast of telekinesis, like Force repulse. He couldn't use Force wave like Yoda, which was why he had to get up close to use Force repulse effectively, it still only caused the Emperor's lightning to burst without harming the Emperor who must have shielded himself.

Originally posted by Dolos
Sidious rarely used it to it's full lethality.

I think that he blasted Windu with his full power. After Windu was sent out of the window, he was in relief.

Heck, I think that he also blasted Yoda with his full power which resulted in a blast when Yoda attempted to deflect it.

Originally posted by Dolos
He charred victims instantly, but that use of Force lightning is equaled by Bane - and surpassed by Plagueis.

Nyriss could reduce her victims to smoking husks easily with her Force Lightning. She would have done the same to Scourge and Meetra simultaneously, if Revan had not stopped her.

And Vitiate was stated to be far more proficient in this power then even Nyriss.

Originally posted by Dolos
As far as Son's lethality, he incapacitated Father with it, a God-like being invulnerable to lightsaber attacks when using the Force.

I will watch the Mortis episode to ascertain this. But let us not discuss these so-called immortals here. So-called because these immortals were not truly immortals as Abeloth was just like them and yet she wasn't invincible.

Originally posted by Dolos
How do you know it wasn't in the story mode? How would that scene just be in a random campaign?

He didn't blow himself up, it was a blast of telekinesis, like Force repulse. He couldn't use Force wave like Yoda, which was why he had to get up close to use Force repulse effectively, it still only cause the Emperor's lightning to burst without harming the Emperor who must have shielded himself.

Maybe it isn't. Maybe its complete bullshit that someone wrote on Wookieepedia. Which is why Wookieepedia isn't a credible source of information.

He suicided. And yes, without using force lightning. Galens lightning wasn't all that great. Vitiates was way more powerful.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Maybe it isn't. Maybe its complete bullshit that someone wrote on Wookieepedia. Which is why Wookieepedia isn't a credible source of information.

I highly doubt they pulled that out of their ass and gave a random video game as a source. Why the hell would the writer of the article do that. Chances are it's a part of the game. I have yet to find something made up on a page. They add feats from video games, and even state when it's from an alternate ending as being non-canon.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He suicided. And yes, without using force lightning. Galens lightning wasn't all that great. Vitiates was way more powerful.

Exactly, the damage Galen Marek's clone did with it vaporized enemies - vaporizing>charring.

And of course one would assume that Sidious, a Sith Lord far more powerful than Galen Marek, canonically stated at least 3 times to be the most powerful Sith in the mythos, has more lethal Force lightning...just like with Nyriss and Vitiate.

I highly doubt that you can prove its true.

Challenge extended.

Originally posted by Dolos
Exactly, the damage Galen Marek's clone did with it vaporized enemies - vaporizing>charring.

And of course one would assume that Sidious, a Sith Lord far more powerful than Galen Marek, canonically stated at least 3 times to be the most powerful Sith in the mythos, has more lethal Force lightning...just like with Nyriss and Vitiate.

Thats cool. Except that Galens clone only vaporised enemies in a non-canon trailer. But still, cool.

Being the most powerful, even if we accept that as true which I don't, doesn't mean he's the best in all areas. Vitiate surpasses him in telepathy at least. And he also does so in Force Lightning. Nyriss' lightning turned herself into ash upon being turned back on her, even after tearing through her Force shields. Thats more powerful than Marek and Sidious'. Vitiates is infinitely more powerful than that. Do the math.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Thats cool. Except that Galens clone only vaporised enemies in a non-canon trailer. But still, cool.

Being the most powerful, even if we accept that as true which I don't, doesn't mean he's the best in all areas. Vitiate surpasses him in telepathy at least. And he also does so in Force Lightning. Nyriss' lightning turned herself into ash upon being turned back on her, even after tearing through her Force shields. Thats more powerful than Marek and Sidious'. Vitiates is infinitely more powerful than that. Do the math.

It vaporized enemies in the novel.

Top Sith

#1: Darth Sidious
#2: Darth Plagueis
#3: Darth Vitiate
#4: Darth Nihilus

Vitiate being stronger than all but the last two masters produced by the most powerful Sith Order in history is the result of his skills in Sith Alchemy and his prodigious connection with the Dark Side before having any training in the Sith ways...which was very similar to Palpatine's though more extreme.

The strongest of Sith follow The Way of the Dark (ergo Sorcerers of Rhand), the Dark Side gives the power through the destruction they cause. The Dark Side gives them what the want, for Nihilus it was satiety, for Vitiate it was immortality, for Plagueis it was immortality, for Sidious it was UNLIIIIMITED POOWWAA!!

Originally posted by Dolos
It vaporized enemies in the novel.

No it didn't.

Originally posted by Dolos
Top Sith

#1: Darth Sidious
#2: Darth Plagueis
#3: Darth Vitiate
#4: Darth Nihilus

Vitiate being stronger than all but the last two masters produced by the most powerful Sith Order in history is the result of his skills in Sith Alchemy and his prodigious connection with the Dark Side...which was very similar to Palpatine's though more extreme.

The strongest of Sith follow The Way Dark (ergo Sorceror's of Rhand), the Dark Side gives the power through the destruction they cause. The Dark Side gives them what the want, for Nihilus it was satiety, for Vitiate it was immortality, for Plagueis it was immortality, for Sidious it was UNLIIIIMITED POOWWAA!!

Interesting tales, sibling. I don't really know what else to say.....

Originally posted by Nephthys
No it didn't.

Not in the first novel. His Force wave and Lightning was described as vaporizing Storm Troopers in the Force unleashed II novel. Which I read but don't currently own, so finding the page would be difficult.

Although I might be confusing TFU II and Darth Plagueis.

Nephthys
Ah. I was starting to think that Legend was grinding you down a bit. I can see now how silly it was of me to think you could sink any lower, intellectually.

You sound inordinately butthurt, bro. Why so serious? 😂

Nephthys
Again, Revan being able to do something does not mean that Dooku and Vader can. Revan has demonstrated exemplary skill at Tutaminis in that he dealt with Nyriss' Lightning with his bare hands. Nyriss' lightning is comparable and arguably superior to Sidious' own lightning. Do you think that Dooku and Vader would block Sidious' lightning when Windu struggled even with the advantage of Vaapad?

Again, we aren't talking about barehanded deflection of lightning, but deflection via lightsaber. There is nothing to suggest Revan is more talented in deflecting energy with his lightsaber than Vader or Dooku.

Nephthys
I don't need to prove an absence of knowledge. 🙂 [b/]

So, absence of proof constitutes proof of absence? I'll remember that in our future debates. 😄

Nephthys
[B]I doubt that. Revan also showed us that Vitiate grants his followers great ragdoll resistance innately. Logically Vitiate would also possess this resistance, in greater quantities since he is not being granted it by proxy and he is not having to waste energy granting it to his guards who would not be present in a duel.

Not when his energies are, per the text, expended trying to dominate the minds of his victims. Try to keep up, bro.

Nephthys
Yes, from behind. As he was running past it. And Dooku would still need to waste time destroying it with FLightning, so nyeh.

Yes, a process that would "logically" take infinitely longer by Dooku than by an astromech droid. 😂

Nephthys
Lol. Yes, and Revan and Malak certainly weren't powerful and trained Force Users. It wasn't like they were taught by a telepathic Sith Lord or anything. Twice.

Oh, yes, I forgot: Dooku and Vader will only replicate Revan's actions when it suits your argument but not otherwise. 😂

There's no evidence to suggest either Revan or Malak are on par with Vader and Dooku, bro.

'

Nephthys
You've learned that the Emperor is on Dromund Kaas, temporarily weakened by your efforts thwarting his plan for galactic annihilation. Striking at him now is your best chance to defeat him once and for all.'

Who's to say he's weakened by the time of the confrontation?

Nephthys
And he was tsill weakened. Dude stumbled while walking down the stairs, its obvious he wasn't 100%

Where did he stumble?

Nephthys
T7 stunned it for ****s sake. He didn't curbstomp anything. It took the Knight several seconds to take out 3 clones, it would take Vader and Dooku a few seconds to take them out as well. Enough time to mindfvck them.

It took the Knight "several seconds" to kill them, one-on-one, with his lightsaber. Here, the combatants will be twice in number and, as Sith Lords, have access and predisposition to offensive Force powers.

But that was a majestic false equivalency there. 👆

Nephthys
And as I said, battle-hardened astromechs are not that weak. Even an early model HK unit was able to put up a challenging fight to Jareal, who was easily Jedi level and sparred evenly with Malak. T3-M4 beat 3 of the most advanced kinds.

😂

Which does nothing but indicate Malak and Jareal are not on the level of Vader and Dooku. But keep it up with T3's badassery, LeGenD, just make sure you give Neph his account back when you're done.

Not nice The Tempest. Legend is at least smart and can at least debate well unlike this utter toolbox.

You, young lady, are a curmudgeon and a slubberdegullion. Also, your brother is a prostitute.