Dooku vs. Zannah

So now I'm wondering where exactly the idea that Luke is the best lightsaber duelist in the mythos comes from.

Is it purely based on Dark Empire I wonder?

\/ Cuz she kinda sucks?

So back on topic: any credible arguments as to why Dooku should be able to survive Bane's successor?

Because he's better? stoned

Nephthys
So now I'm wondering where exactly the idea that Luke is the best lightsaber duelist in the mythos comes from.

Is it purely based on Dark Empire I wonder?

Here's a starting point.

I told you 2 pages ago that I was reading through it. There's nothing there that makes him stand out imo. I'm pretty sure Silver didn't put in any speed feats beyond the DE-era though. Hell, most of them are from before RotJ.

It's not complete. I'd check his posting history.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So now I'm wondering where exactly the idea that Luke is the best lightsaber duelist in the mythos comes from.

Is it purely based on Dark Empire I wonder?

\/ Cuz she kinda sucks?

I know, it's kind of interesting - in the Revenge of the Sith novel, Mace's speed is said to be that of two dozen lightsabers at once.

In The Unifying Force - the height of the NJO novels, Luke's speed is said to be that of twenty lightsabers at once.

So going off visual speed, it would seem that Mace Windu was still faster than NJO Luke.

If Mace was only "four lightsaber swings" faster than Luke, though, that means Sidious was likely somewhere just beneath Mace's speed.

Luke beat Sidious earlier on, meaning his speed would have had to have been comparable to Mace's, which would seemingly mean that his speed in between DE and NJO didn't increase by that much.

Interesting thoughts to think about.

But progressively, Luke has probably gotten faster since NJO and likely has surpassed Mace's speed by a significant margin; I'm sure there's probably a speed feat in the FotJ series that points to that.

As far as being the greatest duelist ever, that is interesting to think about..

The three fastest, indicated by Canon, are Mace, Bane and Luke.

It would be intriguing to have someone calc how many swings Bane would have to quickly and continuously make, per second, to make it so every incoming raindrop, in a violent downpour, would never touch him.

It's likely he'd be up there with Mace's speed.

It could be that Luke is the greatest - but only marginally, over the others.

Thus explaining why Luke still had a very rough time against Caedus, Lumiya, etc.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
With the direction they're going in with Maul, yes. Apparently the new line of thought endorsed by Lucas and espoused by Filoni and Witwer is that Maul was trained by Sidious to be his successor.

As far as Tahiri and Jacen go, they're not members of Bane's Sith order so I can't say.

I'm not sure what u mean by they werent part of banes sith order. Lumiya was an apprentice of Vader that he was going to use to overthrow the emperor, she was a firm believer in the rule of two and trained jacen under the rule of two philosophy then jacen chose tahiri as his apprentice. it might not be the strongest link but they're still connected.

Originally posted by Raptor22
it must be new because even in the link u provided in the first paragraph under powers it has a quote from lucas saying this. "From then on, he wasn't as strong as the Emperor—he was like Darth Maul or Count Dooku. He wasn't what he was supposed to become. But the son could become that."

Machine Vader and Count Dooku are proof that an apprentice may not have the potential of the Master. The Master will of course be on the look out for someone with more potential but it's just not always possible.

Maul however was trained to be Sidious's successor (at least that's the route the CW series is taking) so whether or not his potential equaled Sidous's own, you can pretty much bet he at least had some damn high potential.

Sidious didn't put all that time and effort to train him just so he can appear to the Jedi and kill Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Rookwood
I know, it's kind of interesting - in the Revenge of the Sith novel, Mace's speed is said to be that of two dozen lightsabers at once.

In The Unifying Force - the height of the NJO novels, Luke's speed is said to be that of twenty lightsabers at once.

So going off visual speed, it would seem that Mace Windu was still faster than NJO Luke.

If Mace was only "four lightsaber swings" faster than Luke, though, that means Sidious was likely somewhere just beneath Mace's speed.

Luke beat Sidious earlier on, meaning his speed would have had to have been comparable to Mace's, which would seemingly mean that his speed in between DE and NJO didn't increase by that much.

Sidious was faster than Mace. Mace seemed like he was vanishing in and out of existence, but he was still at a speed where Skywalker could see him and recognize him. Wheres Sidious is just described as a "Blur of Speed" by both Skywalker and Windu.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Sidious was faster than Mace. Mace seemed like he was vanishing in and out of existence, but he was still at a speed where Skywalker could see him and recognize him. Wheres Sidious is just described as a "Blur of Speed" by both Skywalker and Windu.

Mace was faster than Sidious.

Fast enough to keep up with him; defend against all his attacks - and fast enough to slice his lightsaber in two/kick him down.

Mace's weapon was so fast, it seemed as if it were coming from all directions at once - multi-directional combat, very useful; very dominating.

Mace was faster than Sidious, but only by a little bit. Hence Sidious being somewhere below Mace's two dozen swings.

Originally posted by Rookwood
Mace was faster than Sidious.

"Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.

Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half."

Originally posted by Arhael
Bullshit. Sidious feared to fall out of window and Windu took advantage of that fear. It was circumstantial victory.

"Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate. Out where the shadow's fear turned some of its Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete.

Out where Mace could flick his blade in one precise arc and slash the shadow's lightsaber in half."

Yah - I noticed that part beforehand.

If Sidious had been faster than Mace - he would have blocked that slash, and returned in kind.

But Mace was quicker than him, and Sidious lost.

No one argued that Sidious is faster than Windu. The fought at equal speed in prolonged fight right until Sidious became slower as result of partially redirecting his effort.

Originally posted by Arhael
No one argued that Sidious is faster than Windu. The fought at equal speed in prolonged fight right until Sidious became slower as result of partially redirecting his effort.

Wrong.

Also: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge. Out in the wind. Out with the lightning. Out on a rain-slicked ledge above a half-kilometer drop.

They both had to fight at a reduced speed, to stay on the ledge.

And with Mace forced to slow himself down as well, he was still quicker.

Mace was still faster than Sidious.

And Sidious, lost.

Originally posted by Rookwood

They both had to fight at a reduced speed, to stay on the ledge.

Originally posted by Arhael
No

😆

You're somethin' special. 😉

he angled the battle to bring them both out

Mace was still faster. 😎

Although, then again, seeing as how he was victorious anyway, I'd think that even the most mentally-challenged of people, would already understand this.

But there is always one mentally-challenged person I underestimate: Ahrael. 😛

Emotions is the reason of outcome of the fight, not the speed.

"in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge."

Originally posted by Arhael
Emotions is the reason of outcome of the fight, not the speed.

"in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear. Easily, almost effortlessly, he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge."

Yeah, he angled the battle to bring them out onto a place where their footwork would be slowed, to compensate for the slippery surface.

But aside from foot-speed - there is striking-speed. (Speed with arms/hands)

While inside the Office, Sidious still couldn't strike Mace, and had to move around, while Mace defended against everything.

Then, out in the rain, with the footwork of both fighters slowed, deliberately - it came down to striking/defense speed of both.

And Sidious was slower.

And he was slower because he partially redirected his effort as novel clearly states.

Fact is that they had dead even fight for long time.

"But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.

Impasse."

"Impasse" as novel states.

Gonna agree with Arhael here. The two are perfect equals in the fight due to Vaapad but when Sidious reduced his speed slightly Mace was able to capitalize on that. Just because Mace was also fighting on the ledge doesn't mean that he similarly redirected some of his efforts in Force Speed.