They were dead even in the fight. But Sidious was actually moving faster from Anakin's perspective IIRC.
Mace also "Accepts the furious speed of the Sith Lord," and also describes him as a "Blur of Speed," IIRC.
Will have to re-check when I'm home. But that would suggest Sidious was faster.
Either way, Rockwood you have Zero evidence to say Mace was faster.
Originally posted by Arhael
And he was slower because he partially redirected his effort as novel clearly states.
he turned the shadow's fear into a weapon: he angled the battle to bring them both out onto the window ledge.
- "Redirected his effort" meaning just that he essentially backed Palpatine out onto the ledge.
And out on the ledge, Mace also proved to be faster there.
Originally posted by Arhael
Fact is that they had dead even fight for long time."But there was still only the cycle of power, the endless loop, no wound taken on either side, not even the possibility of fatigue.
Impasse."
"Impasse" as novel states.
And then it continues with: Which might have gone on forever, if Vaapad were Mace's only gift. The fighting was effortless for him now; he let his body handle it without the intervention of his mind. While his blade spun and crackled, while his feet slid and his weight shifted and his shoulders turned in precise curves of their own direction, his mind slid along the circuit of dark power, tracing it back to its limitless source.
and then towards the end,
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced
Palpatine was smart enough to know he was going to eventually lose - whether it was to the younger, more powerful Jedi Master's speed, or the Shatterpoint technique - or both.
And it was both, that did him in.
Mace was faster.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Indeed, Mace is in fact slower, and only through Vaapad is he able to equal Sidious' speed.
Correct. Mace without Vapaad-speed, is indeed slower than Sidious.
But with "Vapaad-speed" as Mace exhibited to Kar Vastor, Mace becomes virtually invisible, etc.
Speed-enhancing Vapaad is what enabled Mace to defeat Sidious.
Originally posted by Rookwood
Correct. Mace without Vapaad-speed, is indeed slower than Sidious.But with "Vapaad-speed" as Mace exhibited to Kar Vastor, Mace becomes virtually invisible, etc.
Speed-enhancing Vapaad is what enabled Mace to defeat Sidious.
That's not what Nephthys meant.
He was suggesting that Mace is only that fast when fighting Sidious. Against anyone else he would be slower than Sidious- referring to that whole stupid and confusing superconducting loop crap.
In any case he was an even match for Sidious. What allowed him to defeat Sidious was Shatterpoint and being more tactically minded in combat.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
They were dead even in the fight. But Sidious was actually moving faster from Anakin's perspective IIRC.Mace also "Accepts the furious speed of the Sith Lord," and also describes him as a "Blur of Speed," IIRC.
Will have to re-check when I'm home. But that would suggest Sidious was faster.
Either way, Rockwood you have Zero evidence to say Mace was faster.
Anyway, the novel points out that Mace's lightsaber moved so fast it was like two dozen blades a second and that it attacked from all directions.
Sidious was a blur because he was trying to keep from being chopped up - and then later realized he was going to lose.
Because Mace was the faster fighter.
Originally posted by Rookwood
How about the fact that he won the fight, Dumbass? 😆
So people only win fights because their faster??
Forget skills, strength, tactics and talents like Shatterpoint. It's always just speed?
Originally posted by Rookwood
Anyway, the novel points out that Mace's lightsaber moved so fast it was like two dozen blades a second and that it attacked from all directions.Sidious was a blur because he was trying to keep from being chopped up - and then later realized he was going to lose.
Because Mace was the faster fighter.
Yeah nice babble. Only problem is it's all made up.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
That's not what Nephthys meant.He was suggesting that Mace is only that fast when fighting Sidious. Against anyone else he would be slower than Sidious- referring to that whole stupid and confusing superconducting loop crap.
Nephthys wouldn't suggest that; he's not a water-head, like you. 😆
Also:
Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade,that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
Vapaad-speed is Vapaad-speed.
Mace can feed off his own darkness, as well as the darkness of others, if need be.
Against other foes, like Kar Vastor, he produced similar speed.
So no, he feeds off energy, but his speed will always be extremely fast.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In any case he was an even match for Sidious. What allowed him to defeat Sidious was Shatterpoint and being more tactically minded in combat.
No - ultimately, it was his speed.
When Mace backed Palpatine out onto the slippery ledge, where they both continued the battle; they had to deliberately slow their footwork to keep a grip on the ledge - and relied on their arm/hand speed to strike and defend.
And there, Mace was faster, and Palpatine, too slow to defend against Mace's slash.
Even within the Office, using Vapaad to soak up Sidious power, and being physically younger and stronger, Mace would have outlasted and out-moved Palpatine, anyway.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
So people only win fights because their faster??Forget skills, strength, tactics and talents like Shatterpoint. It's always just speed?
Speed is the main component.
You may be strong; you may have much technique, but it's all meaningless if you can't touch your opponent.
If Sidious had been fast enough with his arms/hands on the ledge, he would have blocked Mace's slash and countered.
But Mace was too fast, and Sidious was too slow.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah nice babble. Only problem is it's all made up.
Mace's blade was, an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.
Originally posted by Rookwood
Nephthys wouldn't suggest that; he's not a water-head, like you. 😆
I've debated Nephthys long before you were on these boards (unless your a Sock).
So I know exactly what he meant. You don't.
Originally posted by Rookwood
No - ultimately, it was his speed.When Mace backed Palpatine out onto the slippery ledge, where they both continued the battle; they had to deliberately slow their footwork to keep a grip on the ledge - and relied on their arm/hand speed to strike and defend.
And there, Mace was faster, and Palpatine, too slow to defend against Mace's slash.
Even if this is true, he wasn't able to beat Sidious (due to speed or anything else) anywhere else. Only out on the ledge. So it was all due to tactics and possibly shatterpoint.
Originally posted by Rookwood
Mace's blade was, an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.
None of this proves Mace was faster. The fact Mace is referring to him as a "Blur" actually suggests the opposite.
Originally posted by Rookwood
It would be intriguing to have someone calc how many swings Bane would have to quickly and continuously make, per second, to make it so every incoming raindrop, in a violent downpour, would never touch him.It's likely he'd be up there with Mace's speed.
Just to keep things to canon, it states that he moved so quickly that those drops that his saber did not take, he dodged. That said, that makes it all the more impressive as he wasn't simply standing still whirling his saber over his head like a fan blade.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I've debated Nephthys long before you were on these boards (unless your a Sock).So I know exactly what he meant. You don't.
As long as there is betrayal, there will always be a Darth Traya.
In one form or another. 😮💨
And there always has been, Young One.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Even if this is true, he wasn't able to beat Sidious (due to speed or anything else) anywhere else. Only out on the ledge. So it was all due to tactics and possibly shatterpoint.
That's actually a stupid assertion.
Their skirmish out on the ledge, where the footwork was restricted, and the duel became a race of arm/hand movements, demonstrated that if the fight had been pressed into a corner of the Office, Mace still would have beaten the decidedly-slower Sidious.
Also, no possibly about it - Mace's perception of Sidious' Shatterpoint also deserves mention here as well - it was Mace's superior speed and his finding and striking of Sidious' Shatterpoint that won him the day.
But even back in the office, a Mace who struck with visual speed, faster than NJO Luke's and striking in all directions at once, was defending against all of Palpatine's attacks and causing him noticeable fear.
In time, the younger, stronger Mace would have outlasted and out-moved Palpatine, anyway.
But the practical Mace sought to end the fight quickly.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
None of this proves Mace was faster. The fact Mace is referring to him as a "Blur" actually suggests the opposite.
Actually, Mace referring to Sidious as a "blur" - when Mace himself is attacking with greater visual speed than NJO Luke (a more powerful version of the same Luke that out-sped an evolved-Palpatine) conveys that Sidious was moving with great speed - trying desperately not to get cut to pieces by Mace's impressive attacks.
This "blur" could not even touch Mace, and was broadcasting it's fear through the Force after a time, realizing Mace would win.
In other words, through the brutal fight, Palpatine was on the defensive and then realized he would lose.
Being fast enough to dissolve all of Palpatine's strikes and put him on the constant defensive, implies at least a slight advantage in speed.
And then the moving of the fight to the ledge, where only sword/strikes could be utilized with full speed - Palpatine could no longer retreat, and when forced into close-quarters match with Mace - Sidious was too slow to defend against the assault - and Mace was once again, too fast.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Just to keep things to canon, it states that he moved so quickly that those drops that his saber did not take, he dodged. That said, that makes it all the more impressive as he wasn't simply standing still whirling his saber over his head like a fan blade.
Very true.
But I'm very sure a calc would produce data, that demonstrates he's up there with Mace's speed. Definitely.
Originally posted by Arhael
I am sure Grievous could easily replicate that feat.
Makes me wonder if Grievous could kill NJO Luke in a sword-duel, then.
Seriously.
26 swings per second, versus the speed of 20? That's some interesting shit.
I'd like to note though, that there seems to be a common misconception that Obi-wan was able to overcome the speed of Grievous with his own speed.
He didn't and couldn't - I really like the movie, because it makes it clear what Obi-wan did.
He stuck his blade out, and stopped Grievous' attack, in the same fashion that you would shove a stick into a moving bicycle-wheel.
He simply halted Grievous' attack - and then dragged his own blade up the length of Grievous' until it reached his opponent's hilt - and exploded it.
- No speed utilized.
Obi-wan could not defeat Grievous' speed with speed - so he did what Anakin did to defeat Dooku - he out-techniqued him.