The better Dark Knight villain: Bane or Joker?

Originally posted by Robtard
Batman had been basically inactive and out of commission for years and years by the time we get to TDK Rises. This was due to Joker's meddling in Returns.

Batman's symbolic appeal as a hero was crap after the Joker. He became a villain, a murderer of Gotham's "white knight" no less in the eyes of the public

The fact is Batman tried to use everything he built himself up to be in the Bane encounter and it got totally taken from him.

His striking from the shadows, his armory, his body, his desire to save people. Bane took it and broke it all.

Also Bane plunged Gotham into far more Chaos than the Joker did.

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not talking about him being a hero I'm talking about everything Bruce built Batman up to be. A creature of the night to strike fear into villains. Bane totally tore that apart. Not even the Joker did that.

The fact is Batman tried to use everything he built himself up to be in the Bane encounter and it got totally taken from him.

His striking from the shadows, his armory, his body, his desire to save people. Bane took it and broke it all.

Also Bane plunged Gotham into far more Chaos than the Joker did.

All that was already 'torn apart' before Bane showed his face and spoke with his silly voice. ie Batman was gone/retired and a murderer. By the opening scene of Rises, Gotham's criminals no longer feared him; Gotham's citizens no longer looked up to him as a hero. All courtesy of the Joker.

Batman was less than half the man he was in their first encounter.

There wasn't much to take, he was washed up already.

Bane also had a lot more help and it wasn't Bane. Talia was the mastermind, Bane was the muscle/grunt. Joker was #1 in his schemes.

Originally posted by Robtard
All that was already 'torn apart' before Bane showed his face and spoke with his silly voice. ie Batman was gone/retired and a murderer. Gotham's criminals no longer feared him by the opening scene of Returns.

Batman was less than half the man he was in their first encounter.

There wasn't much to take, he was washed up already.

Bane also had a lot more help and it wasn't Bane. Talia was the mastermind, Bane was the muscle/grunt.

Bane was the one doing all the calculations and planning. Talia was just the pretty face was all. As he told the doctor by my calculations. He was more than a grunt/thug.

Originally posted by Newjak
He wasn't torn apart, criminals still feared him except they were mostly in jail. And Batman had some of his better feats leading up to the Bane fight so he obviously wasn't half the man he was.

Bane was the one doing all the calculations and planning. Talia was just the pretty face was all. As he told the doctor by my calculations. He was more than a grunt/thug.

Batman was torn, shredded and broken by the start of Rises. He had been retired for years (possibly presumed dead) and Gordon had cleaned up the streets using Dent's death and faulty hero-status as the push to galvanize all of Gotham against crime(key element of the end of Returns). Criminals didn't fear Batman any longer and he wasn't a symbol for good. Cos of the Joker. Why Gordon wanted to tell the truth during his speech in Rises.

No, it was evident at the end that Talia was pulling the strings all along. From Wayne losing his fortune and so forth.

What Bane says regarding the operation is largely irrelevent pre-Tali reveal, since he was trying keep her role hidden in it all a secret.

Bane: By Talia's calculations...ohhhh crap.
Batman: Who the hell is Talia?
Bane: Umm, no one. Shut up. Good going Bane, you really screwed the pooch on that one.

Originally posted by Newjak
He wasn't torn apart, criminals still feared him except they were mostly in jail. And Batman had some of his better feats leading up to the Bane fight so he obviously wasn't half the man he was.

Bane specifically says that 'victory has defeated you.' Batman was clearly wrecked and out of practice by Rises.

...And yet could still put his leg through a brick pillar without flinching. I wish Nolan would have made his mind up. uhuh

More interestingly, how did the big but not gargantuan Bane have the strength to pick up a fairly large brah in what is presumably heavy-ass armor by the neck with one hand and carry him aloft like a declawed feline?

The anesthetic pain didn't convey superhuman strength in the film, did it?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...And yet could still put his leg through a brick pillar without flinching. I wish Nolan would have made his mind up. uhuh

With the help of cybernetics.

Which explains the power, but not the lack of shattered foot. I'm pretty sure it was a brace and not a full-blown cast.

Pretty sure it supported him from just below the hip down to a brace around his foot.

I'd have to check though.

Get back to me on that, woodja? Should it be a mere brace, then Bane must be declared the winner by default.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...And yet could still put his leg through a brick pillar without flinching. I wish Nolan would have made his mind up. uhuh

More interestingly, how did the big but not gargantuan Bane have the strength to pick up a fairly large brah in what is presumably heavy-ass armor by the neck with one hand and carry him aloft like a declawed feline?

The anesthetic pain didn't convey superhuman strength in the film, did it?

Indicating that such a feat is below him when he was at his peak. Plus he just smashed it a bit, he didn't put his foot through it and they were old bricks.

The fact is that a doctor spelled out for us just how badly Bruces body was damaged, and it was basically a lot. Besides which is the decline in his fighting prowess.

Bane is borderline superhumanly strong. He shatters a side of a pillar with his punches and cracks Batmans cowl.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Get back to me on that, woodja? Should it be a mere brace, then Bane must be declared the winner by default.

Winner of what?

Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not talking about him being a hero I'm talking about everything Bruce built Batman up to be. A creature of the night to strike fear into villains. Bane totally tore that apart. Not even the Joker did that.

Joker completely abolished the notion of Batman being the boogieman of the underworld... By replacing him as a far more terrifying one.

Look back at Marcone's conversation with him.

"You have rules. The clown? He don't have rules." Or some shit like that.

Criminals no longer feared Batman. They feared the Joker.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
...And yet could still put his leg through a brick pillar without flinching. I wish Nolan would have made his mind up. uhuh

More interestingly, how did the big but not gargantuan Bane have the strength to pick up a fairly large brah in what is presumably heavy-ass armor by the neck with one hand and carry him aloft like a declawed feline?

The anesthetic pain didn't convey superhuman strength in the film, did it?

Bane honestly has a build that is not far off from Olympic strongmen.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Bane honestly has a build that is not far off from Olympic strongmen.

We must have watched different movies... or different Olympics.

Originally posted by Robtard
Winner of what?

This thread. It all comes down to the foot.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Indicating that such a feat is below him when he was at his peak. Plus he just smashed it a bit, he didn't put his foot through it and they were old bricks.

The fact is that a doctor spelled out for us just how badly Bruces body was damaged, and it was basically a lot. Besides which is the decline in his fighting prowess.

Bane is borderline superhumanly strong. He shatters a side of a pillar with his punches and cracks Batmans cowl.

Yeah I know, I just wondered if there was an explanation for his strength that I missed.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Which explains the power, but not the lack of shattered foot. I'm pretty sure it was a brace and not a full-blown cast.

Yes it was a brace.
A magical one that "repaired" the damage on his other knee as well as his arms & shoulders.

Kinda makes you wonder why Bruce spent 8 years hobbling with a walking stick & not use/make the brace straight after TDK....