Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet vs Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor...

Originally posted by quanchi112
You backed down. You can't produce anything to back up your argument other than weightless statements ie. your opinion.

Thanos manipulates his soul into being his slave. Tell me how he'd defend himself against this tactic. If you can't you concede. 4 battlezones. I think that's more than anyone. You haven't done one. I'm a doer you're just a talker.

Accept my Kubik vs Thanis BZ then I'll consider accepting your Thanis vs DoT AM BZ...

Geez, your spelling is bad, the character is named Thermos

thanus? heh

Originally posted by Sundipped

Funny how you're so enthusiastic to point out Mephistos words
spoken about CCUs but not when he's speaking on behalf of the IB.

The sum total of all the gems is what the Infinity Being and
Nemesis represent. To go along with stating that this was all that
existed throughout infinity, he also said that this force is what
birthed all that exists today.

Now if you were going to designate something as being
omnipotent, then would this not be it? If not, then that's cutting it real close.

The only real difference between the Infinity Being and Nemesis is
the fact that the gems were sentient in Nemesis' case and that was
disrupting the overall focus of it's being.

Despite this, the creative/destructive force would be the same. [/B]

Originally posted by Sundipped

Mr.M addressed this and Nemesis crossed my mind but I wasn't
sure if the Ultraverse was cannon or not.

As he stated, certain combinations of gems were creating universes and Nemesis'

disbursement rewrote the multiverse.

When the gems are together, they are a force of creation as stated by Nemesis.

"A device of Unparalleled Creative Force."
"A creature capable of Building Universes".

As you can see, Nemesis even created a "brief sketch" of a
working universe containing elements of universes it had
experienced and fastfowarded through evolution. It only
took minutes.

As a matter of fact, I retract my statement about Mephisto because he actually said this:

"A omnipotent being that was all there was throughout infinity".

Let's put the uncertainties to rest shall we. 🙂

I had this saved elsewhere, I guess this is good time to repost it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

First: The plot device used was a weakness given to Nemesis.

Nemesis was struggling for control of her being,
because the 6 Infinity Gems that make her up her totality had gained consciousness:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985810_Nem_weak2.jpg]

This no doubt, not only made Nemesis vulnerable, but insane:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985809_Nem_weak1.jpg]

-------------------------------------------------------------

Second: Although weakened due to the reasons above, she was still able to ...

... "Obliterate Two entire UniverseS" {one of which was 616} "In the blink of an eye."

Now, that may not seem like much, but those are the Two Prime Realities of Two separate MultiverseS.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Third: Evidently when Nemesis did this, she also broke down the walls between all realities.

Which lead to ALL Realities merging!

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985851_IG_Nem_merges_Uni3.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]

"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"

"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"

-------------------------------------------------------------

Fourth: Nemesis disintegrated EVERY version of Alternate UltraForce and Avenger there is,
in one swoop.

(This means she erased every Ultra of every Universe of the Multiverse that contains the Ultraverse Reality,
and every Avenger in every Universe in the Prime Multiverse that houses 616)

But with a plot twist ... (well, she's gotta lose after all, hahaha)

Nemesis allows the template versions of the Avengers and UltraForce to survive,
including the Black Knight lol.

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985854_IG_Nem_merges_Uni5.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985855_IG_Nem_merges_Uni6.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985860_IG_Nem_merges_Uni7.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985865_IG_Nem_merges_Uni8.jpg]

"Either this is deliberate, or we got very, very lucky."

-------------------------------------------------------------

So when the Black Knight pulls off the inevitable "hero" move,
Nemesis' power is released and remakes everything.

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985867_IG_Nem_merges_Uni9.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985868_IG_Nem_merges_Uni10.jpg]

I know it states, "Something bigger than us claps its hands, and the Universe blooms"

But what of every other Alternate Reality in existence that was affected here?

Remember Nemesis collapse the Walls between all universeS,
the Realities had merged with what Nemesis built out of the Ultraverse & 616.

Heck, yall KNOW she obliterate BOTH 616 and the Ultraverse,
so just with that it's impossible that only "a" Universe is at play here.

So, while the writer decided to focus on the parent Universe of the UltraForce,
there is no doubt Nemesis' power obliterate Two prime Realities across Two MultiverseS,
she also collapsed the Walls between All UniverseS, meshing all creation,
and finally her power fixed everything by remaking everything anew.

Continues below ....

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, after the splitting of Nemesis,
the Gems now conscious and independent, went off on their own.

4 had Nemesis' evil side (Power-Soul-Mind-Space)
1 was confused (Reality)
1 was sound with logic (Time)

But we also find out, the "remaining energy" from the 6 Gems, like waves
is now crashing on the Continuum creating UniverseS back to back on top of the Ultraverse.

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994541_Gems1.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994560_N_Waves9.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994561_N_Waves10.jpg]

Note* That's a fraction of the IG's power we're talking about here.

As you can see,
not only were these Nemesis Waves (left-over energy of the Gems)
creating one Universe after another on top of each other ...

... but this madness was also going to "destroy All Realities"

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994542_Gems2.jpg]

-------------------------------------------------------------

Proof it was only a fraction of the IG power at work here:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Again ...

It wasn't even the full power of the Gems,
it was only the "remaining energy" of the 6 Gems withIN Nemesis
AFTER they split from Nemesis that performed the feat.

This remaining energy of the Gems was called the Nemesis waves.

(as you can see, the Time Gem removed itself and the Reality Gem,
and only the 4 remained)

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994543_Gems3.jpg]

That's Amber Hunt with Time & Reality Gem about to undo all the madness,
but as you can see, the first wave they could not stop.

More Proof on the Gems splitting up BEFORE the First Wave:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994545_Gems5.jpg]

--------------------------------------------------------------

This was the result of the first wave they could not stop:

That first Wave possibly re-created the Omniverse: (or at the very least Two MultiverseS)

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994544_Gems4.jpg]

"The Universe shall have to stand the first wave. Its repercussions can only be guessed"

Anyway, I say this because notice:

You have Ultraforce in Reality 93060 (separate Multiverse) there,
and a group from an alternate reality in the Utraverse Multiverse as well.

but ALSO ...

Spiderman in Reality 616 ...
Exiles in Reality 1218,
and other cats I don't recognize by name that are from separate universes as well.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I found more evidence to support my stance.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Further arcs had tie-ins to the story of Nemesis.

We see more of what that First Wave did, you know,
the one that its "repercussions could only be guessed" ...

Guess no more.

Juggs was banished to the Crimson Cosmos sometime ago during this time.

The Crimson Cosmos is neither in the Ultraverse Multiverse, nor is it withIN 616,
it's in its own Space between realities.

Heh, That fractionalized IG power crashed right thorough Crimson land, and didn't stop there:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994551_N_Waves1.jpg]

"This World between Worlds ...
a Wave of energy unknown suddenly sweeps across him
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...

... through All That Is or Ever Was ... As Reality ends."

--------------------------------------------------------------

Remember Amber Hunt absorbed and released the remaining Nemesis Waves as harmless energy.

Evidently, she still had a sliver of what she released.

This is what the power withIN her was able to accomplish:

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994552_N_Waves2.jpg]

[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994553_N_Waves3.jpg]

"Across Two Dimensions, shattering the hidden SpaceS between ...
Ultras & mutants buffeted back & forth ,,,
from Universe to near Universe,
Reality to distant Reality...

From long before the beginning of Time to far beyond the End."

--------------------------------------------------------------

Imo, technically speaking, this could mean all the Realities between 616 and the Ultraverse,
which means Two MultiverseS at the very least.

But when you take into account .. what the FIRST Wave did:
(even reaching between realities and more)

"Wave of energy ...
from Everywhere and Nowhere at once ...
... through All That Is or Ever Was ... As Reality ends."

There's no doubt, the Omniverse was done and re-done.

Ah, the proverbial 'universe=multiverse=omniverse' argument. Didn't make sense years ago, and it makes even less sense now. If a writer wants you to know the scale in which an event is operating, they TELL YOU explicitly. They don't use the word "universe"(or in this case: "two universes"😉 and assume you'll equate that to an infinite amount of universes, based on what you've perceived as truth in other stories. Sorry, but that's just not how things work in ANY literary medium. Singular is singular, and plural is plural. Singular=/=plural. Universe=/=multiverse=/=omniverse.

Regardless, what the gems have done in anyones hands but Thanos' is entirely irrelevant to this thread.

Her methods are inscrutible, the proof is irrifutible, ooooooo, she's something something kissable, our lives are indivisible, she's a craze you'd indorse she's a powerful force, your oblised to conform when there's no other course. She use to look good to me now i find her... SIMPLY IRRESISTABLE.

😂

Originally posted by Galan007

Ah, the proverbial 'universe=multiverse=omniverse' argument.
Didn't make sense years ago, and it makes even less sense now. If a
writer wants you to know the scale in which an event is operating,
they TELL YOU explicitly. They don't use the word "universe"(or in
this case: "two universes"😉 and assume you'll equate that to an
infinite amount of universes, based on what you've perceived as truth
in other stories. Sorry, but that's just not how things work in ANY
literary medium. Singular is singular, and plural is plural.
Singular=/=plural. Universe=/=multiverse=/=omniverse.

Nemesis collapsed and merged All Realities!
We SAW every Alternate pop up in the story, even from the Ultraverse Multiverse!
Nemesis's power also remade everything anew.

My friend, we should pay attention before cyber scolding. 😛

Originally posted by Galan007

Regardless, what the gems have done in anyones hands but
Thanos' is entirely irrelevant to this thread.

In the end,
it's also significant because it was a FRACTION of the 616 IG's power.

Gives us a good idea about what Thanos could've/would've accomplished
had he wanted too,
if a fraction of the IG did that.
(But as we know Thanos only wanted to replace Eternity,
but his power reached the Beyond Realm) which is unheard of.

Just sayin ... although I don't think I ever said IG wins anyway,

I don't even care actually.

I was more involved with the IB Nem IG discussion.

... daaammm G ... let a brother live! 🙁

Originally posted by Galan007

If a writer wants you to know the scale in which an event is operating,
they TELL YOU explicitly.

They don't use the word "universe"(or in this case: "two universes"😉
and assume you'll equate that to an infinite amount of universes,

based on what you've perceived as truth in other stories.

Sorry, but that's just not how things work in ANY literary medium.
Singular is singular, and plural is plural. Singular=/=plural.
Universe=/=multiverse=/=omniverse.

Do you still consider Lucifer creating a Multiverse since it's
"based on what you've perceived as truth in other stories?"

If I'm not mistaken Luficer created A Universe artistically no?

And THEN via Another Arc, a statement turns that into a "Multiverse."

Unlike in the Nemesis case where we all saw the Infinite Alternates
of the Ultraverse Multiverse and the Infinite Alternates of the
Prime Multiverse due to Nemesis collapsing All the Walls.
That aside, the "Other Stories" you referred to is actually the
same Nemesis Wave still traveling, depicted in an
Ultraverse/Avengers post tie-in. So your reproach doesn't even
apply to what the Wave did when it hit the Crimson Cosmos.

Grant it, I did actually add that this may be the Two infinite MultiverseS only.

Anyway, at the end, it was Nemesis' power that re-created everything anew.

I'd appreciate your opinion concerning Lucifer's feat though. 🙂

Originally posted by Mr Master
😂

Nice speech. But it's totally unrelated to what I posted, so ...

Nemesis collapsed and merged All Realities!
We SAW every Alternate pop up in the story, even from the Ultraverse Multiverse!
Nemesis's power also remade everything anew.

My friend, we should pay attention before cyber scolding. 😛

hmm ... It was completely relevant regarding a discussion we were having as to the Infinity Being's power.

In the end,
it's also significant because it was a FRACTION of the 616 IG's power.

Gives us a good idea about what Thanos could've/would've accomplished
had he wanted too,
if a fraction of the IG did that.
(But as we know Thanos only wanted to replace Eternity,
but his power reached the Beyond Realm) which is unheard of.

Just sayin ... although I don't think I ever said IG wins anyway,

I don't even care actually.

I was more involved with the IB Nem IG discussion.

... daaammm G ... let a brother live! 🙁

So no, I still don't believe universe=multiverse, or w/e. Never have, never will. You're welcome to your own opinions, but sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Hey there, this got me thinking though since you feel so strongly about this.

Do you still consider Lucifer creating a Multiverse since it's
"based on what you've perceived as truth in other stories?"

If I'm not mistaken Luficer created A Universe artistically no?

And THEN via Another Arc, a statement turns that into a "Multiverse."

Unlike in the Nemesis case where we all saw the Infinite Alternates
of the Ultraverse Multiverse and the Infinite Alternates of the
Prime Multiverse due to Nemesis collapsing All the Walls.
That aside, the "Other Stories" you referred to is actually the
same Nemesis Wave still traveling, depicted in an
Ultraverse/Avengers post tie-in. So your reproach doesn't even
apply to what the Wave did when it hit the Crimson Cosmos.

Grant it, I did actually add that this may be the Two infinite MultiverseS only.

Anyway, at the end, it was Nemesis' power that re-created everything anew.

I'd appreciate your opinion concerning Lucifer's feat though. 🙂

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Accept my Kubik vs Thanis BZ then I'll consider accepting your Thanis vs DoT AM BZ...

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have never heard of Thanis. If you won't accept my Thanos ig vs. Am then you will be forever branded scared of me.

You have branded yourself as scared of me along time ago; back when I challenged you to Kubik vs Thanis...

Your fear is palpable...

Originally posted by leonidas
thanus? heh

That one is good, I must use it 😛

Originally posted by Galan007
Lucifer is a completely different case. In a tie-in issue released before the series came to a conclusion, Lucifer himself flat-out stated that his creation was NOT just a universe, but rather, a multiverse. Since the word "multiverse" was explicitly used, I have no problem assuming that he preformed a multiversal feat. Had any of the Nemesis scans you posted also utilized the word "multiverse", I'd have no problem crediting Nemesis with a multiversal++ feat. However, unless you've got such a scan in your back pocket, I doubt I'll be seeing that word used to represent the scale of Nemesis' feat... Hence the reason I cannot agree with you.

Plus there are almost a dozen statements(some made by other characters, some by the narrative, and some made by Lucifer himself) that refer his creation as a universe in the main series themselves. How do you account for that?

Nemesis' feat was definitely multiversal at the very least.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Lucifer refuted the reference of his creation as a "realm" by Mazikeen(similar to his original Hell or Izanami's realm), not a universe.

Plus there are almost a dozen statements(some made by other characters, some by the narrative, and some made by Lucifer himself) that refer his creation as a universe in the main series themselves. How do you account for that?

Nemesis' feat was definitely multiversal at the very least.

The one-shot had him specifically rectify mazikeen's statement...

Originally posted by curryman
The one-shot had him specifically rectify mazikeen's statement...

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
And how exactly does that refute what I mentioned in my post? She referred it as a "realm"(analogous to the likes of Hell) and he corrected her by saying that it was a multiversal totality. None of that even accounts for the times he himself referred to his creation as a universe in the main series.

But it's the same writer..

Originally posted by curryman
But it's the same writer..

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
😑 I still don't see how that disproves anything that I wrote.

You make it seem as if he slipped, as if there's some discontinuity.

Originally posted by curryman
You make it seem as if he slipped, as if there's some discontinuity.