Originally posted by TheGodKiller
If you read the Lucifer series, then you'll realize how true my words are.
I've read it, obviously.
Him correcting someone and specifically stating that it is a multiverse doesn't not collide with his other mentions of it being a universe.
Nor is there ever given any reason to assume that it's not a multiverse.
Originally posted by curryman
Him correcting someone and specifically stating that it is a multiverse doesn't not collide with his other mentions of it being a universe.Nor is there ever given any reason to assume that it's not a multiverse.
There is no reason given to assume it's not a universe either, especially when it is both portrayed and referred to as such throughout the series.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerMulti-universal? Sure. The statements made support such. But multiversal as in: an infinite amount of universes? Nothing supports that, imo.
Nemesis' feat was definitely multiversal at the very least.
You're welcome to your opinion, but I completely disagree. Regardless, I don't see a need to indulge this side of this discussion any further, as it is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
...And it's not like anyone is going to change their opinion. /shrug
Originally posted by Galan007Meh, even this scan you posted says "two dimensions":
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994553/N_Waves3.jpg.html
The part you're overlooking is "Shattering the Hidden Spaces Between"
"from Universe to near Universe,
Reality to distant Reality...
From long before the beginning of Time to far beyond the End."
-------------------------------------------------
What's between 616 and the Ultraverse? (Two MultiverseS)
An infinite amount of UniverseS since they're located in separate MultiverseS!
The rest of the narration tells us she affected the whole shebang:
"Long Before the Beginning of Time to Far beyond the End" 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007So no, I still don't believe universe=multiverse, or w/e. Never have, never will.
You're welcome to your own opinions, but sorry, I simply cannot agree with you.
Originally posted by Galan007Lucifer is a completely different case. In a tie-in issue released before the series
came to a conclusion, Lucifer himself flat-out stated that his creation was NOT just a
universe, but rather, a multiverse. Since the word "multiverse" was explicitly used, I
have no problem assuming that he preformed a multiversal feat. Had any of the
Nemesis scans you posted also utilized the word "multiverse", I'd have no problem
crediting Nemesis with a multiversal++ feat. However, unless you've got such a
scan in your back pocket, I doubt I'll be seeing that word used to represent the
scale of Nemesis' feat... Hence the reason I cannot agree with you.
Anyway ... Nemesis' power Merged All Realities!
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]
"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"
"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
If this isn't the Omniverse ... it is with out doubt, the entire Infinite Multiverse that houses 616,
and the entire Infinite Ultra Multiverse that houses the Ultraverse.
=======================================
Also Galan, in this scan you can clearly see Nemesis' power created anew
More than just 616 and the Ultraverse:
The Artist wasn't going to illustrate an infinite # of realities obviously,
but he added separate UniverseS to make the point.
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994544_Gems4.jpg]
See, the narration doesn't fit with the art if the writer is suggesting only A Universe is being affected here.
Spiderman in Reality 616 ...
Exiles in Reality 1218 ...
Ultraforce in Reality 93060 ...
and so on ...
This is why I came to the conclusion that the writer is talking about The Universe as All,
or, he's concentrating on the aftermath concerning the Ultraverse only,
which doesn't make sense cause why would he have the artist include Other UniverseS?
You feel me?
Look, I understand where you're coming from, but I still believe you're making the scans out as more than they were intended. If the writer wanted a multiverse, and/or multiverseS to be affected, he would have plainly STATED such on panel. There is not a single literary medium in which writers purposefully leave out major plot-points, and hope the readers will still be able to decipher their work. This is comics, not the Da Vinci Code (and lets be honest: comics are geared for kids, not scholars.) 😛
Anywho, as I mentioned before: had it been stated on panel that Nemesis' feat was multiversal+, I would embrace it with open arms. However, since nothing of the sort was stated, my natural skepticism forbids me from accepting your proposal. Regardless, you're still more than welcome to your opinions... Doesn't mean I have to agree though. 😉
Originally posted by Galan007
Anywho, as I mentioned before: had it been stated on panel that
Nemesis' feat was multiversal+, I would embrace it with open arms.However, since nothing of the sort was stated, my natural skepticism
forbids me from accepting your proposal. Regardless, you're still more
than welcome to your opinions... Doesn't mean I have to agree
though.
Cause on panel:
[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]
"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"
"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"
........................................................
That right there is a Multi-Multiversal Feat! ... And it can't be denied.
This is aside, from all the other feats I really don't think you're closely looking at,
all the madness that originated in that Other Multiverse was fixed via Nemesis' power.
But fine, if you believe that's anything less, peace and love. stoned
Originally posted by Galan007
Multi-universal? Sure. The statements made support such. But multiversal as in: an infinite amount of universes? Nothing supports that, imo.You're welcome to your opinion, but I completely disagree. Regardless, I don't see a need to indulge this side of this discussion any further, as it is entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand.
...And it's not like anyone is going to change their opinion. /shrug
In conjunction with the fact that multiple realities were SHOWN getting destroyed or (re)created on-panel, this amounts as far greater proof of a multiversal feat instead of a single statement from a one-shot which is contradicted by multiple sources from the main series itself.
Originally posted by Mr MasterCool beans. Like I said: when an author writes a piece of fiction(especially when said fiction is oriented toward teenagers) they don't create an encrypted message and cross their fingers that the readers/teenagers will still be able to crack the code. They use plain english-- and the lack of such is why I can't agree with you. Either way, I think this dead horse has been beaten to death. No need to reply to me with a scan barrage, believe me, I've read them all.
But fine, if you believe that's anything less, peace and love. stoned
And thanks for keeping it civil. 😉
Originally posted by TheGodKillerAnd the words "two universes" were used here:
The term "all realities will be destroyed" is used in this scan. What that means is anyone's guess.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994542/Gems2.jpg.html
And the words "two dimensions" were used here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994553/N_Waves3.jpg.html
I'm sure if I bothered to look hard enough, I could find even more verbiage to support me-- but I don't care that much about this topic, tbh. You may not like and/or agree with my opinion, but please don't act like my line of logic is completely baseless.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerAt least in Lucifer's case the word "multiverse" was explicitly used. I didn't have to decipher an encrypted message to discern that much... And that's the difference.
In conjunction with the fact that multiple realities were SHOWN getting destroyed or (re)created on-panel, this amounts as far greater proof of a multiversal feat instead of a single statement from a one-shot which is contradicted by multiple sources from the main series itself.
Originally posted by Galan007
And the words "two universes" were used here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13985834/IG_Nem_is_all2.jpg.htmlAnd the words "two dimensions" were used here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994553/N_Waves3.jpg.htmlI'm sure if I bothered to look hard enough, I could find even more verbiage to support me-- but I don't care that much about this topic, tbh. You may not like and/or agree with my opinion, but please don't act like my line of logic is completely baseless.
At least in Lucifer's case the word "multiverse" was explicitly used. I didn't have to decipher an encrypted message to discern that much... And that's the difference.
I still fail to see how Lucifer's case, despite being limited to a single statement in a one-shot comic and involving around a dozen contradictions in the main series, becomes a better proof of a multiversal feat than one where we are shown more than one reality being involved in the cosmic ruckus, with nothing(apart from Hickman's retcon that comes much later) explicitly refuting it.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerThat's the thing, though: you perceive it as 'blatantly obvious', while I do not. Differing opinions-- they happen all the time here. 🙂
And how exactly does this verbiage NOT support me? Multiple realities collapsed, multiple realities were recreated. Labeling it as some mysterious encrypted message, when the writer intent is blatantly obvious in those comics is quite silly imo.
From my point of view: if I see a few universes illustrated on panel, without the word(s) "multiverse", and/or "infinite universes", and/or "all realities" also used, why would I assume that more than just those realities were meant to be affected? 2+2 does not equal infinity to me. Again, this is just my point of view.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerOnce more: I was merely pointing out the difference in verbiage. In one instance Lucifer actually used the word "multiverse" to describe his creation. The same cannot be said about the Nemesis ordeal. That's all. 🙂
I still fail to see how Lucifer's case, despite being limited to a single statement in a one-shot comic and involving around a dozen contradictions in the main series
Originally posted by Galan007
That's the thing, though: you perceive it as 'blatantly obvious', while I do not. Differing opinions-- they happen all the time here. 🙂From my point of view: if I see a few universes illustrated on panel, without the word(s) "multiverse", and/or "infinite universes", and/or "all realities" also used, why would I assume that more than just those realities were meant to be affected? 2+2 does not equal infinity to me. Again, this is just my point of view.
Originally posted by Galan007
Once more: I was merely pointing out the difference in verbiage. Lucifer used the word "multiverse" to describe his creation-- while the same cannot be said about the Nemesis ordeal. That's all. 🙂
Originally posted by TheGodKillerYeah, that scan still mentions "two dimensions" then goes on with the statements you quoted. To me, the implication is that those actions were happening across the two realitieS initially cited.
But the term "all realities" is indeed used in that incident. From one of the scans which mentions "2 dimensions", here's additional terminology("from universe to near universe, reality to distant reality"😉 of multiple realities being affected by the Gems' power:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994553/N_Waves3.jpg.html
You're so fixated upon the usage of "two universes/dimensions" that you seem to ignore the other scan(which you've obviously seen before) that I showed in my previous posts, and essentially label it as a biversal feat of creative/destructive power.
Differing opinions... This really shouldn't be as big of a deal as you're making it. Who cares? 🙂
Originally posted by TheGodKillerIn your opinion.
Once more: I am merely pointing out that out of these 2 incidences , the one which can be presented as a greater proof of a multiversal feat is the one in which more than one reality is included and shown on-panel, and doesn't have several other sources from associated comics contradicting it. Lucifer's feat doesn't fulfill such criteria, while Nemesis' feat does, so that's that.
So yes. That is that. 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, that scan still mentions "two dimensions" then goes on with the statements you quoted. To me, the implication is that those actions were happening across the two realitieS initially cited.
Multiple realities. Destroyed/recreated multiple times. The threat of the destruction of all realities if that girl(Amber Hunt or whatever her name was) didn't succeed in her quest. Therefore a multiversal feat.
Originally posted by Galan007
Differing opinions... This really shouldn't be as big of a deal as you're making it. Who cares? 🙂
Originally posted by Galan007
In your opinion.So yes. That is that. 🙂
Originally posted by TheGodKillerThat's how you perceive said statements, and that's fine. Differing opinions. Not a big deal. 🙂
And then the action moved on from those 2 realities to other universes till the very end of time....Multiple realities. Destroyed/recreated multiple times. The threat of the destruction of all realities if that girl(Amber Hunt or whatever her name was) didn't succeed in her quest. Therefore a multiversal feat.
I do. And you do, judging by the fact that you're taking your time to reply to me on this thread when you could post on others, or just ignore this discussion altogether.
Not really, but w/e.
👆
Originally posted by Galan007Cool beans. Like I said: when an author writes a piece of
fiction (especially when said fiction is oriented toward teenagers)
they don't create an encrypted message and cross their fingers that
the readers/teenagers will still be able to crack the code.They use plain english--
Well anyway ... "Plain English" ... down below. 🙂
Originally posted by Mr Master[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]
"Nemesis is still tinkering with Reality, and All the Walls have fallen down"
"Whatever -- Alternate versions of UltraForce & Avengers are coming from everywhere"
........................................................
That right there is a Multi-Multiversal Feat! ... And it can't be denied.
This is aside, from all the other feats I really don't think you're closely looking at,
all the madness that originated in that Other Multiverse was fixed via Nemesis' power.
Originally posted by Galan007And the words "two universes" were used here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13985834/IG_Nem_is_all2.jpg.htmlAnd the words "two dimensions" were used here:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994553/N_Waves3.jpg.htmlI'm sure if I bothered to look hard enough, I could find even more verbiage to
support me--
The First scan is of Nemesis' First Feat of many:
(obliterating 616 & the Ultraverse)
The Second scan is of a sliver of Nemesis energy left in Amber Hunt:
(She Shattered the Spaces between Two Infinite MultiverseS and then fixed it in one swoop)
The Writer tells us:
"From long before the beginning of Time to far beyond the End."
Wow! ... I'm being technical when I say Two MultiverseS, this shit sounds like Everything!
Like the first Nemesis Wave (some left over energy of the Gems)
which affected accoding to the Writer: "through All That Is or Ever Was"
Originally posted by Galan007
No I didn't. I read every word you typed, and I still completely disagree for reasons I've mentioned several times to you and TGK. It's really not that big of a deal for me to have a different opinion than yous twos.🙂
But no need to take any issues with this post. Afterall, it's really not a big deal for us to have a different opinion than yours.
![[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13985853_IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13985853/IG_Nem_merges_Uni4.jpg.html){kind=link}
![[img=http://s3d4.turboimagehost.com/t/13994544_Gems4.jpg]](http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/13994544/Gems4.jpg.html){kind=link}
