Matukai, The 2nd Most Powerful Lightside Force organization

I find it funny you call anything contradicting you either insignificant or a lie.

So how about this: Give me page numbers for whatever you are citing. Do NOT use wookieepedia. If your lies have truth (they do not, which is why they are lies) then I will be the first to support you.

Maybe he is just a SW sock of Quan? Or at least related to him.

Originally posted by Pwned
I find it funny you call anything contradicting you either insignificant or a lie.

So how about this: Give me page numbers for whatever you are citing. Do NOT use wookieepedia. If your lies have truth (they do not, which is why they are lies) then I will be the first to support you.

Maybe he is just a SW sock of Quan? Or at least related to him.

Indeed, SWL seems to not realize that not wanting to count them doesn't make them not count, especially when there are citations and examples that directly contract his made-up conclusions.

I like how his logic is, "The Matukai are called Whirlwinds. The Jedi are called Whirlwinds. The Matukai are clearly better because ????".

Also, one of the Emperor's Hands I talked about? Arden Lyn?

She was attacked by three high-level Inquisitors. She killed one and wounded another, due to her skills in the martial art Teräs Käsi.

Multiple Jedi including Bultar swan know that art, and Arden Lyn's been defeated by Jedi on multiple occasions, both during the First Schism, and she failed an attempt on the not-yet-master Luke.

Pwned
Do NOT use wookieepedia.

Heck, let him use Wookieepedia! He keeps on saying 'look at wookieepedia,' but if you look at it, the quotes do not say what he claims them to say.

Consider how sad it is that he insists that he gets his information from there and yet cannot actually manage to find and cut-and-past quotes from it that don't need to be massively exaggerated in order to get close to his conclusions/

Star Wars Logic

The Matukai who joined Luke Skywalker's jedi praxeum were Matukai Apprentices, Matukai who just begun their training in the Matukai philosophy.

Nope, nothing says that. Baseless assumption 1.

You should've listened to Frozoner while you had the chance and ignore me. But now lets bring the actuality in differentiation between Jedi and Matukai.

The Jedi have never reached the Strength and Body Maneuverability of a whirlwind, the Matukai have.

Nope, directly contradicted. Lie 1.

The Jedi have never developed a technique that immediately refreshes your spirit, giving feats of strength and power exceeding what the body was originally capable of, thus becoming stronger then what the body once was before being fatigued, the Matukai Done this.

Nope, Jedi have shown great feats of strength and power exceeding what the body was originally capable of on many cited occasions. Lie 2.

The Jedi have never developed a physically immunity to all poisons & illnesses, the Matukai have. The Jedi reached the body level to being resistant to poisons, not being immune to them.

Ding-ding! Finally, one thing accurate. Actually I'm not sure if Jedi have never done so, but poison immunity is definitely something they have going for them.

The Jedi have never reached the speed of a helicopter propeller with their Melee weapons, being viewed as a virtual whirlwind of Metal and blades, the Matukai have.

This is just repeating lie 1, which makes it lie 3.

The Jedi had the Lightsaber style known as Jar-kar. That Lightsaber style was known as a brilliant whirlwind. The brilliant lightsaber whirlwind brilliant Jar-Kar has been defined as an almost vertical column of rapidly swung lightsabers, not reaching the speed of a actual whirlwind (Virtual Whirlwind) but something of similarity (Briliant whirlwind)

Number of things that say the Matukai one is faster: Zero. In fact, the only description is the word 'whirlwind' and, like you say, 'virtual whirlwind' is the term used, not actual!

There is precisely squat that differentiates the two.

Lie 4.

To put it simple, the inquisitorius were the organization that assassinated the Matukai adepts.

And Jedi and Arden Lyn, yet Jedi like Kyle Katarn were able to fight them off, and Arden Lyn was able to do well against their best, yet the Matukai were unable to do similarly or escape.

Both Yuuzhan Vong and their supporters killed several Matukai apprentices. Experienced Matukai Adepts were gone at that time, and the lesser experienced adepts were gone at that time.

Nope, the last masters would've had plenty of time to train new Matukai up to full by then. This was decades after the purges ended, and there were Matukai with full training who survived to pass it on.

Lie 5.

I never said the Matukai were the first, but ONE of the first force orders that suffered. the Matukai adepts were largely caught off guard, being assassinated in the process.

So they just large somehow didn't notice the Jedi being attacked before them? The Imperial Inquisition that took them down didn't even *exist* back when the purges started, meaning they had some warning, at least months like I said.

And again, they operated in pairs and trios, and nor were they lacking in finely honed conventional senses to warn them. It beggers belief that in those cases at least one of them wouldn't be able to put up a fight.

Once again the RPG hero's guide was where the Zeison Sha & Matukai were first brought into canon, in Star Wars time thats 4,000 BBY. Using the 1st Generation Matukai Adept prestige tradition in comparison to Imperial inquisitors, is pathetic. Same goes for trying to Base the first generation Zeison Sha in comparison to other orders.

The Hero's Guide covers a variety of time, from 4,000 BBY to the Clone Wars, and primarily the Clone Wars at that. The early stuff is mostly mentioned as history, and presents the Matukai as they were during the Clone Wars. The idea that it's only ancient stuff is unfounded like you've been told, and that's lie 6.

And they were also in the Jedi Training Manual, which goes all the way up to 30-40ABY.

So you'd still be wrong.

Common Sense would have told you the Zeison Sha are the most powerful Light Side order. Since they are stronger then most, or even all when it comes to Mind Prowers & Prowess. The Mind is what controls it all. It controls The Physical and spiritual manifestation.

Common sense says nothing says they're the most powerful, and it also says that the book specifically notes they avoided the Empire's hunter as protection rather than hunting.

Also, they were not noted as being the strongest in the mind, or even using mind powers at all. They were strong in TK, but a group like the Baran Do Sages puts much more focus on the mind, as do the Jedi. Baseless Assumption 2.

Common Sense would have told you the Matukai are the 2nd most powerful Light Side Order.

The ones wiped out by a group the Jedi wiped out? And with nothing saying they're all that powerful either, and specifically noted to recruit from people with lowish force connections? Lie 7 and baseless assumption 3.

Do you need the Copy & pasted quotes on the Matukai's physical superiority, and Zeison Sha's unmatched telekinetic Might to Destroy even more of your arguments then what has already been trashed ?

Considering you've failed to post any and your arguments have been packs of lies and assumptions that get continuously get shot down, yes, that'd be nice.

I'll pre-emptively note that quotes only say the Matukai have high physical training and the Zeison Sha are very powerful in TK, and do not, of course, say they are overall better in any way, shape, or form. It means they're good in their respective areas, that's it, and it doesn't mean others can't also be good in those same areas.

Using the description 'whirlwind' does not mean that their whirlwinds are better than the Jedi ability with the description 'whirlwind,' and so on.

As, btw, I have specifically noted that the Jedi Path book says the Matukai are only among the best martial artists, and the ZS's telekinetics are only mentioned as being better than many Jedi but not Jedi who themselves specialize in TK.

That's pre-emptive baseless assumptions 4 and 5.

Originally posted by Q99
Indeed, SWL seems to not realize that not wanting to count them doesn't make them not count, especially when there are citations and examples that directly contract his made-up conclusions.

I like how his logic is, "The Matukai are called Whirlwinds. The Jedi are called Whirlwinds. The Matukai are clearly better because ????".

Also, one of the Emperor's Hands I talked about? Arden Lyn?

She was attacked by three high-level Inquisitors. She killed one and wounded another, due to her skills in the martial art Teräs Käsi.

Multiple Jedi including Bultar swan know that art, and Arden Lyn's been defeated by Jedi on multiple occasions, both during the First Schism, and she failed an attempt on the not-yet-master Luke.

Heck, let him use Wookieepedia! He keeps on saying 'look at wookieepedia,' but if you look at it, the quotes do not say what he claims them to say.

Nope, nothing says that. Baseless assumption 1.

Nope, directly contradicted. Lie 1.

Nope, Jedi have shown great feats of strength and power exceeding what the body was originally capable of on many cited occasions. Lie 2.

Ding-ding! Finally, one thing accurate. Actually I'm not sure if Jedi have never done so, but poison immunity is definitely something they have going for them.

This is just repeating lie 1, which makes it lie 3.

Number of things that say the Matukai one is faster: Zero. In fact, the only description is the word 'whirlwind' and, like you say, 'virtual whirlwind' is the term used, not actual!

There is precisely squat that differentiates the two.

Lie 4.

And Jedi and Arden Lyn, yet Jedi like Kyle Katarn were able to fight them off, and Arden Lyn was able to do well against their best, yet the Matukai were unable to do similarly or escape.

Nope, the last masters would've had plenty of time to train new Matukai up to full by then. This was decades after the purges ended, and there were Matukai with full training who survived to pass it on.

Lie 5.

So they just large somehow didn't notice the Jedi being attacked before them? The Imperial Inquisition that took them down didn't even *exist* back when the purges started, meaning they had some warning.

And again, they operated in pairs and trios, and nor were they lacking in finely honed conventional senses to warn them. It beggers belief that in those cases at least one of them wouldn't be able to put up a fight.

The Hero's Guide covers a variety of time, from 4,000 BBY to the Clone Wars. It covers the Clone Wars era most heavily and the early stuff is only mentioned as history, and presents the Matukai as they were during the Clone Wars. The idea that it's only ancient stuff is unfounded like you've been told, and that's lie 6.

And they were also in the Jedi Training Manual, which goes all the way up to 30-40ABY.

So you'd still be wrong.

Common sense says nothing says they're the most powerful, and it also says that the book specifically notes they avoided the Empire's hunter as protection rather than hunting.

Also, they were not noted as being the strongest in the mind, or even using mind powers at all. They were strong in TK, but a group like the Baran Do Sages puts much more focus on the mind, as do the Jedi. Baseless Assumption 2.

The ones wiped out by a group the Jedi wiped out? And with nothing saying they're all that powerful either, and specifically noted to recruit from people with lowish force connections? Lie 7 and baseless assumption 3.

Considering you've failed to post any and your arguments have been packs of lies and assumptions that get continuously get shot down, yes, that'd be nice.

I'll pre-emptively note that quotes only say the Matukai have high physical training and the Zeison Sha are very powerful in TK, and do not, of course, say they are overall better in any way, shape, or form. It means they're good in their respective areas, that's it, and it doesn't mean others can't also be good in those same areas.

As, btw, I have specifically noted that the Jedi Path book says the Matukai are only among the best martial artists, and the ZS's telekinetics are only mentioned as being better than many Jedi but not Jedi who themselves specialize in TK.

That's pre-emptive baseless assumptions 4 and 5.

Distinguished as among the best martial artists in the galaxy, the Matukai made their own bodies the focus of their abilities, and were capable of using physical exercise and discipline as a form of meditation. Keeping their focus inward, Matukai philosophy differed from that of the Jedi Order in that the Jedi saw physical exercise and meditation as separate; however, this inward focus allowed Matukai adherents such a degree of control over their bodies as to develop an otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]

Considered to be masters of their physical bodies, the Matukai were capable of drawing on the force to strengthen and augment their bodies to unnatural limits. In doing this, they could refresh their spirits with a tireless energy that allowed them to exert their bodies far past their unaided physical limits for hours at a time without tiring. Because of this stamina, Matukai were capable of executing physical feats such as tumbling, running, leaping, and complex martial sequences with an astonishing speed described as a "whirlwind" blur of limbs and movement, additionally, this refreshing of spirit augmented the strength and resolve of a Matukai's blows, allowing them feats of strength and power exceeding what their bodies were capable of. In addition to this outward physical mastery, Matukai were known for their inward mastery and self-awareness of their own bodies, and were able to discern wounds, injuries, and sickness with ease. The Matukai learned to purge illness and poison from their bodies, and even become immune to them altogether, to the point where a fully-trained Matukai could shrug off the effects of a normally-fatal sting from a poisonous kouhun. Trained Matukai could also raise or lower their body temperature to survive in hot or cold environments, or even cause their skin to become so hot as to burn anything they touched. More experienced Matukai adepts could also give normally soft parts of their body unnatural rigidity to help drastically reduce physical damage.[3][5]

The signature weapon of the Matukai was a polearm weapon called the wan-shen, which was tipped on one end with a short-singled edged blade. Each wan-shen was unique and bore patterns etched into the blade to symbolize things important to its creator. Most wan-shens could be broken down into easily-stored pieces, and trained users could whirl it around their bodies in combat, using themselves as a central axis of rotation. Due to their own physical control, Matukai were capable of wielding the blade with a speed that sometimes astonished onlookers, which was described as a virtual whirlwind of metal and blades. As such, they were considered excellent combatants with weapons in addition to hand-to-hand combat. Matukai saw the weapon as an external focus for the Force, as well as a means of self-defense. The Matukai were agile to the point of being able to dodge or deflect a sizable portion of incoming strikes or shots aimed at them, and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force. They were also known for their adaptability to any situation.[3]

A Virtual Whirlwind is a visibly replicated man made whirlwind. In order to achieve a Virtual Whirlwind (Which is a Miniature Tornado). One must have the physical Speed, Strength, and Stamina to maintain the Whirlwind. Which is what the Matukai Adepts had the most. 😆

The Jedi's "great feats of strength" relies mainly on force augmentation, they can't do any of their feats while their connection to the force is cut. But The Matukai Adepts can 🙂.

Nothing i said was a lie, but rather you just don't want to accept it.

You keep on saying stuff that other sources indicate is wrong, and even your own sources don't even say many of your claims.

That's called a lie.

Well here's the compilation of all the sources concerning the Matukai.

I have more sources than that, like I've said. The Hero's Guide and the Jedi Training Manual both have large sections on them.

You know, if you were really interested in them instead of just trying to make your own version of them, upon hearing that someone has more sources you could've asked more about their powers and abilities instead of just running on your own assumptions.

Distinguished as among the best martial artists in the galaxy,

Key word, AMONG. They aren't the only ones at that level, just some of the ones at that level.

A Virtual Whirlwind is a visibly replicated man made whirlwind. In order to achieve a Virtual Whirlwind (Which is a Miniature Tornado). One must have the physical Speed, Strength, and Stamina to maintain the Whirlwind. Which is what the Matukai Adepts had the most.

Among the most, and which some Jedi also had.

See, this is you just assuming "Because they have a power, that must mean the Jedi don't!", when other sources indicate the Jedi do too.

They have the ability, but the idea that it makes them better, that the Jedi don't have that or other, different, equally powerful abilities is just baseless assumptions.

The Jedi's "great feats of strength" relies mainly on force augmentation, they can't do any of their feats while their connection to the force is cut. But The Matukai Adepts can .

Actually, 1 Nothing says that the Matukai can do so without the force. They even say, in the paragraphs you posted right above, "and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force" and "Because of this stamina, Matukai were capable of executing physical feats such as tumbling, running, leaping, and complex martial sequences with an astonishing speed described as a "whirlwind""

They specifically need the connection of the force to get the stats needed to do the whirlwind, according to your own sources.

And 2, if the Jedi can do equal or better, who cares? That means when the Jedi do have a connection of the force, they can do so too, and, well, the Jedi always have a connection to the force unless there's a Ysalamiri around or they've been hit with the sever force ability.

If the Jedi can use the force to match them in that, and the Jedi also have more ability in stuff like TK and foresight, in what way are the Jedi weaker?

Even your own sources do not agree with your conclusions.

Thus repulsed, Bodo Baas realized the Matukai had no interest in allying with the Jedi, but recommended to his superiors that they be allowed to exist autonomously, as most of their members were individuals who would not have been picked for Jedi training in the first place.

There is your entire answer Logic. They were too weak to be Jedi, so they became Matukai.

Originally posted by Q99
You keep on saying stuff that other sources indicate is wrong, and even your own sources don't even say many of your claims.

That's called a lie.

I have more sources than that, like I've said. The Hero's Guide and the Jedi Training Manual both have large sections on them.

You know, if you were really interested in them instead of just trying to make your own version of them, upon hearing that someone has more sources you could've asked more about their powers and abilities instead of just running on your own assumptions.

Key word, AMONG. They aren't the only ones at that level, just some of the ones at that level.

Among the most, and which some Jedi also had.

See, this is you just assuming "Because they have a power, that must mean the Jedi don't!", when other sources indicate the Jedi do too.

They have the ability, but the idea that it makes them better, that the Jedi don't have that or other, different, equally powerful abilities is just baseless assumptions.

Actually, 1 Nothing says that the Matukai can do so without the force. They even say, in the paragraphs you posted right above, "and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina [b]due to their connection to the Force" and "Because of this stamina, Matukai were capable of executing physical feats such as tumbling, running, leaping, and complex martial sequences with an astonishing speed described as a "whirlwind""

They specifically need the connection of the force to get the stats needed to do the whirlwind, according to your own sources.

And 2, if the Jedi can do equal or better, who cares? That means when the Jedi do have a connection of the force, they can do so too, and, well, the Jedi always have a connection to the force unless there's a Ysalamiri around or they've been hit with the sever force ability.

If the Jedi can use the force to match them in that, and the Jedi also have more ability in stuff like TK and foresight, in what way are the Jedi weaker?

Even your own sources do not agree with your conclusions. [/B]

The Aing Tii already proved, "One does not need to be force sensitive to manipulate its energies" The Aing Tii were quoted to have Force wielding control not even mastered by the most powerful Sith & Jedi.

So you can scream "The jedi can do this, the jedi can do that" but nothing changes the Fact that there are several more Orders more powerful then the Jedi. Matukai are the Most powerful Physically. The Zeison Sha are the most powerful Telekinetically. The Aing Tii are the Most poweful Spiritually.

Originally posted by Pwned
Thus repulsed, Bodo Baas realized the Matukai had no interest in allying with the Jedi, but recommended to his superiors that they be allowed to exist autonomously, as most of their members were individuals who would not have been picked for Jedi training in the first place.

There is your entire answer Logic. They were too weak to be Jedi, so they became Matukai.

In 580 BBY. Bodo Baas had learned of a Matukai Master Adept by the name Mendor Typhoons, and also his 2 apprentices. They discovered Mendor Typhoons and His 2 apprentices wiped out a large group of pirates on their own near Ord Radama. Bodo Baas set up the meeting between the Jedi Order and Matukai. Bodo was very optimistic upon entering the conversation and attempted to Bring the Matukai in the order's fold. Mendor Typhoons Responded in comedic laughter, saying how Matukai Adepts found Jedi training elitist and ineffectual. Mendor even went so far as to say, he could train the Jedi's padawans better then the Jedi Masters on Coruscant, thus the Matukai did not entertain any idea of Unification, and the Jedi were repulsed.

Mendor Typhoons contradicts Q99's little theory. I wonder if Q99 will still cling on to his theory of Matukai Adepts joining Luke Skywalker's Jedi praxeum. It was already said Loud and clear That Matukai Adepts found Jedi training elitist and ineffectual. So why would any Matukai Adepts join Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum(:?

The Jedi afterwards allowed the Matukai to exist independently since none of them fell to the Dark Side. It was then Bodo Baas's Jedi pride allowed him to state, that the Matukai's members were too old and wouldn't have been picked for Jedi training in the first place.

I can understand why Mendor Typhoons stated he can do a better job at training the Jedi's padawans. He earned his Named due to his prowess, along with the Fact he's the only known Typhoon Blur of metal and blades, as well as limbs and movement.

Yes the Matukai can use their stamina without the force. It was said in the paragraph above, that because of the fact Matukai feed off of the force to strengthen their bodies, they found a far more significant source of strength.

Ah hem, "as to develop an otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]"

"and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force"

They did not find a different source of strength, they developed a weak source of strength into a significant one, and specifically rely on their connection to do so. They don't use or know the Aing Tii method (which only the Aing Tii seem to know).

This is your own sources saying this, they repeatedly reiterate that the Matukai are using the force and in fact need this connection to do their best stuff.

Lie 1.

Mendor Typhoons contradicts Q99's little theory. I wonder if Q99 will still cling on to his theory of Matukai Adepts joining Luke Skywalker's Jedi praxeum. It was already said Loud and clear That Matukai Adepts found Jedi training elitist and ineffectual. So why would any Matukai Adepts join Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum(:?

You're outright told that they joined and have mentioned it yourself several times and now you're doubting it happened? Lie 2.

As for the reasons, because they found his school more open and less elitist.

"Later, with the birth of the New Jedi Order, some of the remaining Matukai chose to join the new Jedi Praxeum organized by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, deeming it less strict than the previous incarnation of the Jedi Order,[1] and those that did distinguished themselves with a facial tattoo." (Wookieepedia)

And here's the Hero's Guide:

"Some of these Matukai chose to join Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy when the call went out for prospective students. Skywalker's academy had less stringent standards for admission than the old Jedi council, and his eagerness to learn more about the force meant he was more open to new ideas."

It seems 'elitist' was the real bone of contention from the start, and when the Jedi were willing to look at their ideas openly and teach at the same time, that was cool with them. It also indicates Jedi have access to the Matukai's knowledge.

Oh yea, and in case you're going to say they lost their knowledge or other excuse, it also says: "Much like the Jedi, though, the few remaining Matukai were able to preserve their force tradition."

I can understand why Mendor Typhoons stated he can do a better job at training the Jedi's padawans. He earned his Named due to his prowess, along with the Fact he's the only known Typhoon Blur of metal and blades, as well as limbs and movement.

Jedi who do so would, of course, be blurs of lightsaber and limbs rather than metal.

"He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is no- where in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."-ROTS Novel

Let me reiterate that nothing at any point says a Matukai's top speed is above that of a strong Jedi.

Additionally? The guy was just named Typhoons, he was never actually described as moving as fast as a typhoon nor of being named after being able to do so at any point. It was just his name!

So Lie 3 and unfounded assumption 1.

(Switching over to weather phenomena for a moment, typhoons are not faster than whirlwinds, btw)

Originally posted by Q99
Ah hem, "as to [b]develop an otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]"

"and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force"

They did not find a different source of strength, they developed a weak source of strength into a significant one, and specifically rely on their connection to do so. They don't use or know the Aing Tii method (which only the Aing Tii seem to know).

This is your own sources saying this, they repeatedly reiterate that the Matukai are using the force and in fact need this connection to do their best stuff.

Lie 1.

You're outright told that they joined and have mentioned it yourself several times and now you're doubting it happened? Lie 2.

As for the reasons, because they found his school more open and less elitist.

"Later, with the birth of the New Jedi Order, some of the remaining Matukai chose to join the new Jedi Praxeum organized by Jedi Master Luke Skywalker, deeming it less strict than the previous incarnation of the Jedi Order,[1] and those that did distinguished themselves with a facial tattoo." (Wookieepedia)

And here's the Hero's Guide:

"Some of these Matukai chose to join Luke Skywalker's Jedi Academy when the call went out for prospective students. Skywalker's academy had less stringent standards for admission than the old Jedi council, and his eagerness to learn more about the force meant he was more open to new ideas."

It seems 'elitist' was the real bone of contention from the start, and when the Jedi were willing to look at their ideas openly and teach at the same time, that was cool with them. It also indicates Jedi have access to the Matukai's knowledge.

Oh yea, and in case you're going to say they lost their knowledge or other excuse, it also says: "Much like the Jedi, though, the few remaining Matukai were able to preserve their force tradition."

Jedi who do so would, of course, be blurs of lightsaber and limbs rather than metal.

"He lacks entirely the flash, the pure bold elan of an Anakin Skywalker; there is no- where in him the penumbral ferocity of a Mace Windu or a Depa Billaba nor the stylish grace of a Shaak Ti or a Dooku, and he is nothing resembling the whirlwind of destruction that Yoda can become."-ROTS Novel

Let me reiterate that nothing at any point says a Matukai's top speed is above that of a strong Jedi.

Additionally? The guy was just named Typhoons, he was never actually described as moving as fast as a typhoon nor of being named after being able to do so at any point. It was just his name!

So Lie 3 and unfounded assumption 1.

(Switching over to weather phenomena for a moment, typhoons are not faster than whirlwinds, btw) [/B]

Mendor Typhoons earned his name due to his prowess. The Matukai Tradition and the Gand Warrior Tradition have one similariy, they both name their warriors based on their achievements. Mendor Typhoons is a Typhoon blur of metal and blades, and limbs and move. I wasn't talking about Speed concerning a Typhoon, but the immense strength of one. Keep going on about your Jedi fanboyism, and the bow jocking followers you are gaining 🙂.

I have read the Matukai's Powers & Abilities concerning their physical capabilities. Why are all of you even arguing with Star Wars Logic? it just shows you guys are big Jedi fans.

I outright said Matukai Apprentices joined Luke Skywalker's jedi praxeum, not Matukai Adepts.

And I outright said it didn't say only apprentices, it just said Matukai. And it's also apparently a continuing relationship.

The Far More significant source of strength is that Tireless energy they use to continually become more powerful Physically. Because of their rigorous training and their connection to the Force, they found a far more significant source of Strength.

Nope, it said that it developed their weak connection of the force to make it more significant. It says nothing about finding another source of power.

Again, "as to develop an otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]"

"and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force"

That's what your own sources say. None of them mention another source of strength.

So lie and unsupported assumption.

Mendor Typhoons earned his name due to his prowess.

Unsupported assumption. There is no background on Mendor Typhoons' name in Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

You can't just make stuff up, SWL.

The Matukai Tradition and the Gand Warrior Tradition have one similariy, they both name their warriors based on their achievements.

Nope, no source on the Matukai says anything of the sort. It's not in what you posted, it's not on wookiepedia, and it's not in any of the books.

You accuse others of fanboyism and you can only support the claim based on made-up, lies, and arguments directly contracted by the sources you yourself post.

I have read the Matukai's Powers & Abilities concerning their physical capabilities. Why are all of you even arguing with Star Wars Logic? it just shows you guys are big Jedi fans.

Because he's posting stuff that directly contradicts his own points? Because the books contradict his points? Because he repeatedly insists he's right on 'facts' that are in precisely no canon sources and are thus fanfics?

I mean, really, StarWarsLogic, this is either an incredibly obvious sock or you bring your friends over to parrot your exact argument. Who's going to be fooled by "Oh I just thought I'd come in and even though SWL's arguments aren't backed by any source he can post and contradicted by many posted stuff, he's totally right and I don't see why you're arguing and I'm going to use the same intended-insults he does. Also I use his writing style."?

We aren't dumb, SWL, we have eyes.

.... hmm, although the assumption that we don't have eyes capable of noticing writing does explain a lot about your arguments.

Of course there is the whole 'pathological lier' hypothesis I had earlier, where you actually have a condition that makes it hard to tell the truth and when pressed you'll just double-down repeatedly no matter how flimsy and obviously made-up your arguments are.

Originally posted by Q99
And I outright said it didn't say only apprentices, it just said Matukai. And it's also apparently a continuing relationship.

Nope, it said that it developed their weak connection of the force to make it more significant. It says nothing about finding another source of power.

Again, "as to develop an [b]otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]"

"and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force"

That's what your own sources say. None of them mention another source of strength.

So lie and unsupported assumption.

Unsupported assumption. There is no background on Mendor Typhoons' name in Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

You can't just make stuff up, SWL.

Nope, no source on the Matukai says anything of the sort. It's not in what you posted, it's not on wookiepedia, and it's not in any of the books.

You accuse others of fanboyism and you can only support the claim based on made-up, lies, and arguments directly contracted by the sources you yourself post.

Because he's posting stuff that directly contradicts his own points? Because the books contradict his points? Because he repeatedly insists he's right on 'facts' that are in precisely no canon sources and are thus fanfics?

I mean, really, StarWarsLogic, this is either an incredibly obvious sock or you bring your friends over to parrot your exact argument. Who's going to be fooled by "Oh I just thought I'd come in and even though SWL's arguments aren't backed by any source he can post and contradicted by many posted stuff, he's totally right and I don't see why you're arguing and I'm going to use the same intended-insults he does. Also I use his writing style."?

We aren't dumb, SWL, we have eyes.

.... hmm, although the assumption that we don't have eyes capable of noticing writing does explain a lot about your arguments.

Of course there is the whole 'pathological lier' hypothesis I had earlier, where you actually have a condition that makes it hard to tell the truth and when pressed you'll just double-down repeatedly no matter how flimsy and obviously made-up your arguments are. [/B]

Yeah you have eyes, but you use them far more then your actual sense.

Yeah you aren't dumb, you're a self willingly ignorant individual.

The Matukai developed a far more significant source of strength due to their connection to the force. The Matukai were the only known order that can build up force sensitivity in someone who isn't gifted with force sensitivity. That and the Fact there hasn't been a single Matukai that Fell to the Dark Side since its founding in 4,000 BBY.

Oh so now you're calling him me? thats a big mistake, he's not the Person that takes kindly to being accused of something 🙂.

Nope im not a lier. You're just a egotistical Jedi fan boy/girl, and a geek one at that, since you were willing to go so far in attempt to prove your little theory, as to Purchase the Hero's guide, (Which was 39,99$ on Amazon) when you could have just viewed the guide on Wikidot.

But i will tell you this. if you accuse me of something one more time and it affects someone again, i will remove you. Thats your finale WARNING.

Originally posted by Star Wars Logic
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

In 580 BBY. Bodo Baas had learned of a Matukai Master Adept by the name Mendor Typhoons, and also his 2 apprentices. They discovered Mendor Typhoons and His 2 apprentices wiped out a large group of pirates on their own near Ord Radama. Bodo Baas set up the meeting between the Jedi Order and Matukai. Bodo was very optimistic upon entering the conversation and attempted to Bring the Matukai in the order's fold. Mendor Typhoons Responded in comedic laughter, saying how Matukai Adepts found Jedi training elitist and ineffectual. Mendor even went so far as to say, he could train the Jedi's padawans better then the Jedi Masters on Coruscant, thus the Matukai did not entertain any idea of Unification, and the Jedi were repulsed.

Mendor Typhoons contradicts Q99's little theory. I wonder if Q99 will still cling on to his theory of Matukai Adepts joining Luke Skywalker's Jedi praxeum. It was already said Loud and clear That Matukai Adepts found Jedi training elitist and ineffectual. So why would any Matukai Adepts join Luke Skywalker's Jedi Praxeum(:?

The Jedi afterwards allowed the Matukai to exist independently since none of them fell to the Dark Side. It was then Bodo Baas's Jedi pride allowed him to state, that the Matukai's members were too old and wouldn't have been picked for Jedi training in the first place.

I can understand why Mendor Typhoons stated he can do a better job at training the Jedi's padawans. He earned his Named due to his prowess, along with the Fact he's the only known Typhoon Blur of metal and blades, as well as limbs and movement.

Since the Jedi Order was large in number, they felt secure enough to allow other Force-using organizations to exist independently, provided that the other Force-using groups did not fall to the dark side

Thus repulsed, Bodo Baas realized the Matukai had no interest in allying with the Jedi, but recommended to his superiors that they be allowed to exist autonomously, as most of their members were individuals who would not have been picked for Jedi training in the first place.

All of this contradicts what you have said. Oh, by the way, it's all Copy+Pasted from Wookieepedia.

So that's what I am talking about. The very article you want to use is being brought up to show you your own lies. Oh, and Typhoons was the only one who found Jedi training to be, "elitist and ineffectual"

They were too weak to be Jedi, yet you say they are better? XD

I find your lack of honesty quite humorous. So quit with your bullshit and get off the boards or be a normal human being that can realize when their lies have been caught.

Oh, and it wasn't a, "large group of pirates"
It was, "several pirates" Meaning around 4. A, "master of physical capabilities" and his 2 apprentices, or in other words, 3 Force sensitives (as weak as they were) beat 4 non-Force sensitives.

Bane led his squad through the New Sith Wars almsot unscathed, and sniped a dozen people within seconds while blind. You don't trumpet him, do you? Thought so.

Just because none were actually straight out mentioned to have not fallen does NOT mean that none did. That is assuming, and that makes you look like an ass.

Also, how can you remove him? Simple, you can't. You are not a moderator. So instead of making obviously empty threats, go and learn what you want to say before you ignorantly spout it out.
And yes, you are a liar.

Pwned
Oh, and it wasn't a, "large group of pirates"
It was, "several pirates" Meaning around 4. A, "master of physical capabilities" and his 2 apprentices, or in other words, 3 Force sensitives (as weak as they were) beat 4 non-Force sensitives.

Any skilled group of force-sensitive warriors should be able to handle a large group of pirates anyway.

Jedi are known to occasionally handle large groups of Sith or other force users.

SWL
Since Matukai adepts frowned upon Jedi training, that only leaves one Rank left to consider praxeums, (Matukai Apprentices)" Its a little something called COMMON S e n s e

Nope, back in the day the Matukai wouldn't let *any* of their apprentices learn from the Jedi because they viewed them as elitist.

Once the Jedi no longer were elitist, they have no reason for adepts to stay away either.

If the Matukai adepts didn't like the Jedi, why the heck would they let their students join? That's common sense.

Also, don't forget they continued to train in the Matukai way even after becoming Jedi, they didn't cease being Matukai. So you'd still have fully trained members at the end of the day.

Nope im not a lier. You're just a egotistical Jedi fan boy/girl, and a geek one at that, since you were willing to go so far in attempt to prove your little theory, as to Purchase the Hero's guide, (Which was 39,99$ on Amazon) when you could have just viewed the guide on Wikidot.

It's up to 40? I got mine for like, 12 ^^ And actually a couple unrelated to this conversation too, like the New Jedi Order one. I like having physical books and this reminded me they exist to pick up (though I am disappointed the KotoR is, like, crazy expensive). And excuse me for not finding being called a SW geek much of an insult on a SW forum.

Also, have you noticed that I haven't been raving about the Jedi? That I, in fact, have mostly just been noting they have similar ideas? I just haven't been agreeing with you, that every order you see is 'obviously superior'. Because, well, nothing says they're superior! You may try and justify to yourself that the only reason someone'd not agree with you is being a fangirl or boy, but that's just an excuse you're making for us looking at the facts and finding out you're wrong.

You are a liar.

You've been lying a lot, and whether or not you like that the heros guide proves my point, it does prove my point, as does, like Pwned mentioned, the wookiepedia article you mentioned.

Your points are regularly contradicted even before the material you yourself post. Why is it so hard to read the sources instead of making stuff up and insisting your stuff is right and not the actual sources that determines what's right?

Originally posted by Q99
And I outright said it didn't say only apprentices, it just said Matukai. And it's also apparently a continuing relationship.

Nope, it said that it developed their weak connection of the force to make it more significant. It says nothing about finding another source of power.

Again, "as to develop an [b]otherwise negligible connection to the Force into a far more significant source of strength.[1]"

"and enjoyed greatly increased balance and stamina due to their connection to the Force"

That's what your own sources say. None of them mention another source of strength.

So lie and unsupported assumption.

Unsupported assumption. There is no background on Mendor Typhoons' name in Jedi vs. Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force.

You can't just make stuff up, SWL.

Nope, no source on the Matukai says anything of the sort. It's not in what you posted, it's not on wookiepedia, and it's not in any of the books.

You accuse others of fanboyism and you can only support the claim based on made-up, lies, and arguments directly contracted by the sources you yourself post.

Because he's posting stuff that directly contradicts his own points? Because the books contradict his points? Because he repeatedly insists he's right on 'facts' that are in precisely no canon sources and are thus fanfics?

I mean, really, StarWarsLogic, this is either an incredibly obvious sock or you bring your friends over to parrot your exact argument. Who's going to be fooled by "Oh I just thought I'd come in and even though SWL's arguments aren't backed by any source he can post and contradicted by many posted stuff, he's totally right and I don't see why you're arguing and I'm going to use the same intended-insults he does. Also I use his writing style."?

We aren't dumb, SWL, we have eyes.

.... hmm, although the assumption that we don't have eyes capable of noticing writing does explain a lot about your arguments.

Of course there is the whole 'pathological lier' hypothesis I had earlier, where you actually have a condition that makes it hard to tell the truth and when pressed you'll just double-down repeatedly no matter how flimsy and obviously made-up your arguments are. [/B]

Just a simple question... Do you have a life? You're sitting here arguing with everything he says. I see your a original star wars kind of person. The fact of the matter is the Jedi are no longer the strongest. So I got friendly advice for you... You ready? Here it is... Get a life.., Get a girl... Maybe even a job! Because this sitting on your ass debating on star wars is NOT a life!

Do you even realize what you are doing? You get 1 life in this world and you're wasting it on a forum arguing with people because you think your right? You have 1 life, Only 1. How about you make that life something your friends and family WON'T be disappointed in.

I rest my case.

Originally posted by Hacker
Just a simple question... Do you have a life? You're sitting here arguing with everything he says.

Does he? I mean he posts all this stuff too and does so first, and responds to others as well, so by extension you're attacking him at least as much as you are me.

And I've already mentioned I do get some fun out of arguing.

Heck, what about you? You're either just covering for him, or somehow though reading through a long thread of SWL being shot down was worth your time without even the fun of participating in it!

The fact of the matter is the Jedi are no longer the strongest.

Yea, The Ones are.

Isn't it funny that you and him both are obsessed with trying to prove me and Pwned are 'Jedi fangirls/boys' in order to deflect from losing the argument?

The Matukai are below the Imperial Inquisition, who're below the Sith, who're around equal with the Jedi (as demonstatred in the many times they've fought). And in fact they've had quite a few members join the Jedi.

So I got friendly advice for you... You ready? Here it is... Get a life.., Get a girl... Maybe even a job!

Have, am, have. Yay!

I rest my case.

Your case is weak and I don't care, I'm having fun 🙂

Also considering the odds are high that either you are SWL or one of his friends shilling for him, you look reeeeeally bad yourself. Coming in and making an account on a forum just to attack people SWL logic doesn't like? Tisk tisk!

Originally posted by Q99
Does he? I mean he posts all this stuff too and does so first, and responds to others as well, so by extension you're attacking him at least as much as you are me.

And I've already mentioned I do get some fun out of arguing.

Heck, what about you? You're either just covering for him, or somehow though reading through a long thread of SWL being shot down was worth your time without even the fun of participating in it!

Isn't it funny that you and him both are obsessed with trying to prove me and Pwned are 'Jedi fangirls/boys' in order to deflect from losing the argument?

The Matukai are below the Imperial Inquisition, who're below the Sith, who're around equal with the Jedi (as demonstatred in the many times they've fought). And in fact they've had quite a few members join the Jedi.

Have, am, have. Yay!

Your case is weak and I don't care, I'm having fun 🙂

Also considering the odds are high that either you are SWL or one of his friends shilling for him, you look reeeeeally bad yourself. Coming in and making an account on a forum just to attack people SWL logic doesn't like? Tisk tisk!

You just admitted to me you have no life. "I'm having fun 🙂". If you call this fun... You live a sad life my friend.

Eh, I have fun doing this. Granted my life has taken a shitty turn recently and I need a way to amuse myself, but still. I actually laugh at most of the posts.

Gosh, did you hear about that Q99 guy? He is such a Star Wars nerd!
Like ohmygawsh, I know. That is so nerdy.

Originally posted by Pwned
Eh, I have fun doing this. Granted my life has taken a shitty turn recently and I need a way to amuse myself, but still. I actually laugh at most of the posts.

Gosh, did you hear about that Q99 guy? He is such a Star Wars nerd!
Like ohmygawsh, I know. That is so nerdy.

Hah, yea, it's always funny when people think trying to make fun of people for enjoying themselves is a stinging insult.