Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Come on Goku was pretty damn confident they could beat fat buu with super saiyan fusion, and even if super buu destroyed the earth after leaving the time chamber Goku would still have the namekian dragon balls that they used to restore earth and the people on it for the spirit bomb and to restore Goku's power to create the super spirit bomb during their fight against kid buu. And even if Goku faced alot of people who can transform it still didn't enter his head that the fat buu could, and I think if kid buu can overtake a spirit bomb with that much energy I think he can handle what ever a fresh super saiyan 3 can dish out.
And he was wrong as they faced Fat Buu and got their shit pushed in. I doubt he thought they could go SSJ after they fused since iirc Piccolo was suprised they did. If Super Buu destroyed the Earth, Goku would have lost the fight due to Hercule not convincing the people to give the energy required to create the Spirit Bomb. Goku clearly stated that he could have easily killed Kid Buu when he was fresh so your opinion really donesn't carry any weight since it's canonly contradicted by a being very familar with energy levels and what not.
He made one bad call after another and only won due to getting lucky that events played out a certain way. Had he actually planned these things then you'd have a point but it's clearly shown he was just trying to make the best out of a bad situation , that he caused, and was extremely lucky he had what he needed to have things work out.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
No one is saying that goku isn't a good guy, he is. He's also an idiot though.
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
Goku didn't think Gotenks would have to go any higher than super saiyan to beat the fat majin buu, they only had to do that to beat super buu.
Its the same as him having no idea that Gohan would have the trigger to go SS2.
Originally posted by KAIKAGE
And how many times do I have to say it, Goku put his faith in his kids and Trunks because he can't do everything for them forever, he needs to ready the next generation and there's no better way than experience on the battle field. What would happen if Goku is dead and can't come back when a new villain appears and there not ready to handle it themselves, I'll tell you everyone would die, the planet would be destroyed and then the rest of the universe would be wiped out. And look what his decision to not beat Fat Buu created, it created the fusion idea which created Gotenks, Gogeta and Vegito, ultimate Gohan and the restored faith in the spirit bomb. Plus it created Uub and then Majuub who helped save everyone's bacon against baby, so that one decision to not kill Fat Buu himself had quite the domino affect for saving them in the future, it also gave reason for Goku to come back to life in the first place to save them from Buu, Hirudagarn and then the new Bills god of destruction, and then to become super saiyan 4 and beat baby, super 17 and the shadow dragons. So imagine what would have happened if Goku hadn't made that decision, the next villain would have won and would continue to destroy the universe. Any way does anyone else feel we've strayed off the point of this thread to argue about Goku AGAIN?
Having the kids take over is a good idea in theory.. making them take on the strongest foes he's seen when the fate of the human race, planet/galaxy/etc all hang in the balance, and all because of them /maybe/ being able to defeat them. There were other methods.
And it didn't even work.
His plan with Gohan worked for that moment. 7 years later Gohan barely trains, focuses on his studies and by the time of the Buu sagas start he's gotten slightly weaker than he was against Cell.
His plan with Gotenks worked for that moment too. Neither Goten nor Trunks were bothered to train much, as seen in the end of the manga where Vegeta and Goku comment at how lazy they are, they're both not bothered about training. To the point where they have to make the kids participate in the tournament. And at this point Gohan doesn't train being a scholar and all, so the three people he risked all that for gave up on his plan.
Originally posted by BloodRainYes but his enemies keep getting stronger anyway, Goku is trying to make them equipped to handle this themselves. I never said that Goku's search for a successor was going well I just said that he has to keep trying.
👆No idea if they would succeed in Fusion or how strong they would be. Less as it was only due to the HTime chamber that their SS1 form was as strong as Goku's SS3 form.
Its the same as him having no idea that Gohan would have the trigger to go SS2.
Were the after-effects of what Goku did great? Yes. Did he know any of that would happen? No.
Having the kids take over is a good idea in theory.. making them take on the strongest foes he's seen when the fate of the human race, planet/galaxy/etc all hang in the balance, and all because of them /maybe/ being able to defeat them. There were other methods.
And it didn't even work.
His plan with Gohan worked for that moment. 7 years later Gohan barely trains, focuses on his studies and by the time of the Buu sagas start he's gotten slightly weaker than he was against Cell.
His plan with Gotenks worked for that moment too. Neither Goten nor Trunks were bothered to train much, as seen in the end of the manga where Vegeta and Goku comment at how lazy they are, they're both not bothered about training. To the point where they have to make the kids participate in the tournament. And at this point Gohan doesn't train being a scholar and all, so the three people he risked all that for gave up on his plan.
Originally posted by BloodRainI think from watching dragon ball, z and gt we've learned not to underestimate the kids, and besides what would you suggest he does?
And in the process he put his and Vegeta's 11, 8 and 7 year old kids in front of the business end of a shotgun.. twice. Besides the disastrous effects that could/did happen as a direct result of his plan.
Compared to overestimating them, which he did both times. No #16 death, no SS2. Dance not pulled off and no time chamber, no Gotenks stronger than Goku. Theres no reason he couldn't have took care of the treats while continuing to training the kids.
And at the end of the manga, with the 3 kids not bothering to train all there was left was himself, Vegeta and Pan who he says is the most dedicated to training. Yet he doesn't seem to bother with training her like he does his resistant son. And after finding Uub who he believes has the potential to be as strong as Buu, the only reason he leave to train him is to make him that strong just so he can have another fight.
2.1 solar masses? You mean those energy spheres Bills made the combined made a building sized sphere?
He doesn't have greater speed in any sense. SS3 Goku is 0.05%c, Superman is far, far into FTL.
IT is a teleport, no speed. Still, its still based off his reactions and most of all its 'charge' time in locating a spot to move to.
If Whiss says it's 2.1 solar masses then it's 2.1 solar masses.
Canon fact >>>>>>> your opinion
____________________________
Superman's travel speed is FTL. But this means jack shit in a fight.
Superman's combat speed (which actually matters) is slower than Roshi's.
Proof
Kid Goku dodged the laser fired by that Red Ribbon Army droid and he outsped Tien's solar flare (which is stated in the Daizenshu to be a flash of light) i.e. FTL.
And no, teleport has infinite speed by definition. But it's only practical in a travel speed sense.
Building sized, also when did he say this?
Scene needs context. Besides the fact that Superman's dialogue says "Its been said that I'm faster than a speeding bullet, and I am. But sometimes being faster than a speeding bullet is not enough." Supes fighting WW while going at FTL, Infinite mass punch, tagging Flash, other things that nerds will bring to the table. And as you can see Superman is travelling with flight.. which is travel speed, which you know he's fast in.. 😕
No, he did not dodge the light. Goku knew the attack was coming and already knew what to do, meaning he was reacting /before/ the attack. If Goku did this before the light reached him, that would mean Roshi would have been blinded too. Unless you can show me both Goku moving after the attack (impossible, no scan exists) and then him moving there and back before the light reaches him (again no scan exists).
If kid Goku was FTL how on earth were the characters a great deal faster than him being hit by this light, up to Cell saga level characters?
Originally posted by BloodRainLowballing is a terrible sickness.
Building sized, also when did he say this?Scene needs context. Besides the fact that Superman's dialogue says "Its been said that I'm faster than a speeding bullet, and I am. But sometimes being faster than a speeding bullet is not enough." Supes fighting WW while going at FTL, Infinite mass punch, tagging Flash, other things that nerds will bring to the table. And as you can see Superman is travelling with flight.. which is travel speed, which you know he's fast in.. 😕
No, he did not dodge the light. Goku knew the attack was coming and already knew what to do, meaning he was reacting /before/ the attack. If Goku did this before the light reached him, that would mean Roshi would have been blinded too. Unless you can show me both Goku moving after the attack (impossible, no scan exists) and then him moving there and back before the light reaches him (again no scan exists).
If kid Goku was FTL how on earth were the characters a great deal faster than him being hit by this light, up to Cell saga level characters?
Originally posted by BloodRain
Supes fighting WW while going at FTL,
Originally posted by BloodRain
Infinite mass punch,
Originally posted by BloodRain
tagging Flash,
Originally posted by BloodRain
No, he did not dodge the light. Goku knew the attack was coming and already knew what to do,
Originally posted by Effect Veiler
If Whiss says it's 2.1 solar masses then it's 2.1 solar masses.Canon fact >>>>>>> your opinion
____________________________Superman's travel speed is FTL. But this means jack shit in a fight.
Superman's combat speed (which actually matters) is slower than Roshi's.
Proof
Kid Goku dodged the laser fired by that Red Ribbon Army droid and he outsped Tien's solar flare (which is stated in the Daizenshu to be a flash of light) i.e. FTL.
And no, teleport has infinite speed by definition. But it's only practical in a travel speed sense.
Superman can stand there and tank a billion of the most powerful blasts SSJ3 Vegetto could throw at him. Why would he need combat speed? To tag Goku? Goku would get tagged after a few weeks without rest.
Originally posted by Dolos
Superman can stand there and tank a billion of the most powerful blasts SSJ3 Vegetto could throw at him. Why would he need combat speed? To tag Goku? Goku would get tagged after a few weeks without rest.
A planet buster, or solar buster (both within Goku's range of power) would leave Superman in a coma if not kill him outright.
And that's not counting the galaxy-busting power of SSJG.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Yet Superman has survived without any real damage/losing consciousness being the ham in between a 2 planets sammich.
Anyway, I'll let you in on a little secret. There's less energy exerted on Superman's body sandwhiched in between two planets than a point blank planet buster would exert.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
I like how you simply stick to one feat and call it a day.
I could go all into how DC considers Karate Kid's Ki Magic, and how anything magic (even cards) cuts up Superman to.
Originally posted by Zack Fair
Goku would get killed if he flew into a moon at light speed. Just saiyan.
Originally posted by Effect Veiler
No, flying into a moon knocked out Superman.A planet buster, or solar buster (both within Goku's range of power) would leave Superman in a coma if not kill him outright.
And that's not counting the galaxy-busting power of SSJG.
It was not a moon, it wasn't even a dwarf planet like Pluto, it was a normal planet.
If Goku lets loose a beam shaped ki blast that is powerful enough to destroy a planet, it will kill him according to the laws of physics and the fact that his durability is 1 trillionth of a fraction of 1% of Superman's eyeball.
Unless of course he decides to create an orb shape ki blast that detonates, in which case Superman can back hand it into another star system before it detonates just as easily as he could any other ki-based attack.
Or he could detonate a ki blast prematurely with his heat vision and kill Goku while only being knocked out.