Maul Brothers vs. Bane

Originally posted by Eminence
BvnwLLXHabg#t=03m27s
3:27. solid rock exploding >[!] flesh burning.

There was an explosion, but no evidence that the rock actually suffered any damage. No rubble fell. Besides which he zaps Anakin and the guy is walking around a minute later. Besides which, I disagree that exploding rocks > charring to the bone or rendering them to ash. A lightning strike will shatter a rock if it hits due to heat difference, but it won't do the kind of damage that the greatest Force Lightning practitioners can achieve.

Originally posted by Eminence

Silly line of thought anyway.

Does that actually kill them?

Originally posted by Eminence
Quote? The whole fight would be nice if you have an electronic copy.

I've been searching for the quote myself. I managed to find where Gideon posted the spoilers first, but the photobucket account is private. 🙁

Originally posted by Eminence
Bane cannot "dominate" the brothers in anything, Force included. Their TK showings might be better than his contextually and his only real fallback is lightning, which Savage can tank and (presumably) Maul knows how to neutralize like everyone else. And so we're clear, bolts of lightning that elicit explosions on contact with solid rock are probably not being generated by a "merely mediocre" user.

You're welcome to your opinion of course. What do you mean by 'contextually'? Bane can kill people with a single Force Push and disintegrate a dozen metal opponents with a palm thrust, Maul and Savage have never shown that level of power. I've also explained why I don't see Savage tanking Bane's lightning, which rendered a man to ash when struck with it and exceeds a million volts. And I don't see Maul as being capable of blocking Bane's lightning. What skill at defensive Force use has be shown that would give you that impression?

Originally posted by The_Tempest
His cackles, grins, and apparent relaxation suggest it.

He acts the same way while battling Yoda. It's only when he loses the advantage does he start snarling.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Or, more accurately, his acrobatics required effort. We see him loose a powerful Force push immediately after. To say nothing of his casual evasion of Savage. Only when Maul was enraged did anything like parity manifest, but we know Sidious had no intention of killing him; moreover, the website says Maul was no match for him even then.

All of this is underscored by the fact that Sidious was actively courting battle by releasing the brothers at the start. Even combined, they're not even close.

I am not claiming the brothers were a match for Sidious as he appears to be dominating them throughout the fight. Only that the fact that he shows sings of fatigue and was hit twice make it seem that the idea he was toying with the brothers is ill founded.

lol

What's up with all the CWC fanboys/noobs popping up here lately?

Originally posted by Eminence
[B]BvnwLLXHabg#t=03m27s
3:27. solid rock exploding >[!] flesh burning.

Proof that it was the rock that exploded please.

Silly line of thought anyway.

and?

Quote? The whole fight would be nice if you have an electronic copy.

Bane cannot "dominate" the brothers in anything, Force included.

He can dominate them and he can do it whomever he pleases, he only loses the lightsaber only fight pre-orbalisks. His speed and TK alone will be enough to dominate them however he wishes.

Their TK showings might be better than his contextually and his only real fallback is lightning, which Savage can tank and (presumably) Maul knows how to neutralize like everyone else. And so we're clear, bolts of lightning that elicit explosions on contact with solid rock are probably not being generated by a "merely mediocre" user.

He also hammers through Jacen's defenses to rip apart his starfighter in (I believe) Revelation.

🤨

Who is this guy? 😂

There is the possibility that the brothers are just fast enough to be able to avoid being blitzed by Sidious and to keep up with his attacks 2 on 1, while not actually being as fast as him or being capable of replicating his feats. It's similar to how I see Dooku's own speed in comparison to Yoda's.

I do however maintain that he wasn't fighting with his best efforts though.

Originally posted by ares834
He acts the same way while battling Yoda.

Only when he had the advantage; when he was overpowering Yoda during the senate pod sequence.

Originally posted by ares834
It's only when he loses the advantage does he start snarling.

He snarls all throughout his duel with Mace, the first time being when he leaped from his chair, and the second was right before he even attacked Kolar.

Originally posted by ares834
I am not claiming the brothers were a match for Sidious as he appears to be dominating them throughout the fight. Only that the fact that he shows sings of fatigue and was hit twice make it seem that the idea he was toying with the brothers is ill founded.

I honestly don't think Palpatine would purposely fatique himself when, evidently, he could have finished them with the force alone. Palpatine obviously was not out to kill them in quick succession. In fact, he wasn't there to kill Maul at all. And we see how seriously he took Savage based on their 1-on-1 :/ . When I say Palpatine was toying with them, I mean that he wasn't fighting for his life, and that he didn't seem to find them a threat enough to fight them his absolute hardest. Also, based on the history of Palpatine's character, he is the type of guy who loves to savor his moment of superiority over others, which is what he was seemingly doing here.

As this post wore on it originally got much harsher than I'd intended. I can't promise this won't upset you anyway, but I tried (to avoid it).

1. A chunk of rock very clearly shoots across the left side of the screen, it's hard to miss. This can safely be assumed to be the stone shattering (explosively) because Force lightning doesn't turn into fireballs anywhere else that I'm aware of. A "lightning strike" is not the same thing as Force lightning, but rest assured that sustained exposure to fifty thousand degrees will turn you to ashes, too. Yes, the scan is of several Kiffar dying. I wouldn't have selectively posted it otherwise. Shouldn't have been necessary at any rate, the notion that one of the most powerful Force users in history can't kill people with a professional version of something neophytes across the saga can do is actually really dumb. That his lightning wouldn't scale to his strength in the Force isn't much better.

2. You've gotten into the very bad habit of conflating the fact that certain characters have not done certain things with the presumption that they are not powerful enough to. I daresay men who can drag around starships (which Bane hasn't, amirite?) or blow apart a prison cell could TK blunt force trauma someone to death. Further:

Rule of Two
He rose to see the wall of creatures pressing in on him, and he unleashed a wave of lightning through their ranks. The bolts arced through the mostly metal bodies; the nanotechnology that animated their frames and gave them life smoked and smoldered, and a dozen more of his opponents toppled over never to rise again.

Not actually that impressive.

For one you is ignoring that the power of his lightning was spread across dozens of enemies, and not just a single one.

Others have taken up the rest of Bane's more famous feats and their roots in Force-strong worlds (Lehon, Tython, Ambria) with you.

It always amazes me what the fanboys try to come up with to discredit people they are biased against. Truth of the matter is that nobody has proven how much people on a powerful world amps your powers. I recall that Dooku was once on a world strong in the darkside, and while it made him more powerful, it did not make him drastically more powerful, he still wasn't good enough to beat Yoda. Would you aregue that being on Rataka would have made Bane even twice more powerful? Because even half of the power it took to destroy the temple is far beyond anything Tk related we see from the brothers or from Dooku. Take into account the rain feat and his incredible speed, it pretty clear Bane owns either Dooku or the brothers, either with power of TK or via speed blitz, unless you want to nerf him.

Originally posted by Nephthys

You're welcome to your opinion of course. What do you mean by 'contextually'? Bane can kill people with a single Force Push and disintegrate a dozen metal opponents with a palm thrust, Maul and Savage have never shown that level of power. I've also explained why I don't see Savage tanking Bane's lightning, which rendered a man to ash when struck with it and exceeds a million volts. And I don't see Maul as being capable of blocking Bane's lightning. What skill at defensive Force use has be shown that would give you that impression?

Savage has put down multiple destroyer droids with a single force wave. He's force pushed a Jedi starship off a cliff. But you don't think he could kill people with one?

Zabrak's are stronger than humans. Savage was already strong before his amp (punching holes in stone) as shown in his fight with Ventress.

The Amp multiplied his strength Ten fold according to Darth Maul:Restraint.

Then there's his body armor. He's tanked Blaster fire head on. And he tanked multiple shots of FL from Dooku without being KO'd. So it's just a real stretch to say Bane would incinerate him.

And jeez does Maul really need to show that he can catch FL with his Saber. You really think his Force defenses will be less advanced than AOTC Obi-Wan's? Pretty damn unlikely with the thorough training he received from Darth Sidious.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Only when he had the advantage; when he was overpowering Yoda during the senate pod sequence.

Yes... He had the advantage throughout the entire duel with the brothers so he never had a reason to stop laughing.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He snarls all throughout his duel with Mace, the first time being when he leaped from his chair, and the second was right before he even attacked Kolar.

So?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When I say Palpatine was toying with them, I mean that he wasn't fighting for his life, and that he didn't seem to find them a threat enough to fight them his absolute hardest. Also, based on the history of Palpatine's character, he is the type of guy who loves to savor his moment of superiority over others, which is what he was seemingly doing here.

Fair enough.

Originally posted by Nephthys
There is the possibility that the brothers are just fast enough to be able to avoid being blitzed by Sidious and to keep up with his attacks 2 on 1, while not actually being as fast as him or being capable of replicating his feats. It's similar to how I see Dooku's own speed in comparison to Yoda's.

I do however maintain that he wasn't fighting with his best efforts though.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Only when he had the advantage; when he was overpowering Yoda during the senate pod sequence.

He snarls all throughout his duel with Mace, the first time being when he leaped from his chair, and the second was right before he even attacked Kolar.

I honestly don't think Palpatine would purposely fatique himself when, evidently, he could have finished them with the force alone. Palpatine obviously was not out to kill them in quick succession. In fact, he wasn't there to kill Maul at all. And we see how seriously he took Savage based on their 1-on-1 :/ . When I say Palpatine was toying with them, I mean that he wasn't fighting for his life, and that he didn't seem to find them a threat enough to fight them his absolute hardest. Also, based on the history of Palpatine's character, he is the type of guy who loves to savor his moment of superiority over others, which is what he was seemingly doing here.

You 2 really need to stop lowballing the Saber feats Opress, Maul and Obi-Wan have shown this season just because it doesn't go with how you perceive these combatants.

Fact is IF Sidious did to Maul and Opress the same thing Obi-Wan did in Sabers, then you lot would keep going on about how Sidious completely embarrassed the duo in Sabers and there was no competition e.t.c e.t.c. But the best you'll give Obi-Wan for doing just that is a comparison to Kit Fisto.

Until some canon source confirms that Sidious was toying with the duo you should keep that theory to yourselves and not bring it up as a "fact" in versus threads.

Yeah, you're probably right. Obi-Wan actually is equal to Sidious to be honest. Therefore he is in fact Yoda's superior, thereby automatically being better than Dooku as well rendering his defeat at the latters hands completely lewdicrous.

Thank you DP, you've solved Star Wars. 👆

So Neph, how long have you been an anti-Obi-Wan and pro-Sidious fanboy?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, you're probably right. Obi-Wan actually is equal to Sidious to be honest. Therefore he is in fact Yoda's superior, thereby automatically being better than Dooku as well rendering his defeat at the latters hands completely lewdicrous.

Thank you DP, you've solved Star Wars. 👆

Nice use sarcasm to completely ignore the point.

For the record the last 2 seasons of Clone Wars have made it abundantly clear that Anakin and Obi-Wan are both top tier SABER DUELISTS.

That doesn't mean they would match the likes of Mace Windu and Darth Sidious in an all out.

And for the record Yoda is superior to Sidious.

Originally posted by Nephthys

I do however maintain that he wasn't fighting with his best efforts though.

That much is apparent.

Eminence, this is the droids quote you're looking for:

'Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.'

Now I'm likely so biased that the words are literal hallucinations designed to conform to my twisted world-view, but to me that definitely suggests Sidious steadily increasing his speed to overwhelm Maul.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes... He had the advantage throughout the entire duel with the brothers so he never had a reason to stop laughing.

Well, yeah. I agree.

Originally posted by ares834
So?

So a snarl does not necessarily mean that Palpatine was put at a disadvantage or that he was fatigued, considering that he was snarling before he even entered a duel with Mace and the jedi. Unless you want to argue that the snarl was bit different?

@Neph- you are lowballing the brothers because you don't accept DP's claim that the brothers could have overpowered Sidious in sabers.

Maybe I don't accept DP's claim that the brothers could have overpowered Sidious in sabers because I honestly agree with everything I'm saying?

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So a snarl does not necessarily mean that Palpatine was put at a disadvantage or that he was fatigued, considering that he was snarling before he even entered a duel with Mace and the jedi. Unless you want to argue that the snarl was bit different?

You must be talking about something different from me. I'm talking about after he knocks Savage away with a kick and gasps for breath. It's not a snarl at all.

Maybe his back twinged. He is a pretty old dude to be jumping around so much.

Yes which means that you are lowballing them.

DP doesn't want to accept well supported arguments, but he expects others to accept his silly notions.