Maul Brothers vs. Bane

Originally posted by ares834
You must be talking about something different from me. I'm talking about after he knocks Savage away with a kick and gasps for breath. It's not a snarl at all.

I'm on mobile web right now so I don't feel like scrolling way back to check, but I thought you used the word snarl.

Anyway, I guess you can argue that. But in my opinion, he didn't seem too tired considering that he resorted to saber duel again instead of the force, and how he was easily evading all of Savage's attacks without having his sabers even ignited.

He just didn't seem to find Savage a threat at all by his conduct.

The one part he really did strike me as playing was when it was one-on-one him vs Savage. Even started out with his sabers off.

He did acknowledge Maul as a rival, but Opress was only useful as an addum to the team, not nearly a threat on his own.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

Until some canon source confirms that Sidious was toying with the duo you should keep that theory to yourselves and not bring it up as a "fact" in versus threads.

Perhaps you should follow your own advice DP (regarding the Obi-Wan is a better swordsman than Kit argument).

Unless some canon quote stated that, then you should have kept it to yourself.

Your double standards grow tiring.

Hah, fun thing.

Clone Wars Who Will Fall? poster.

Sidious is pointing at Opress.

Originally posted by Q99
The one part he really did strike me as playing was when it was one-on-one him vs Savage. Even started out with his sabers off.

He did acknowledge Maul as a rival, but Opress was only useful as an addum to the team, not nearly a threat on his own.

Sidious was most likely refering to all the stuff Maul had accomplished in such little time. Maul became a threat to Sidious plans for galactic domination. Obviously Maul wasn't a rival as far as taking Sidious out in combat, because we see how effortlessly Sidious can ragdoll Maul with the force alone.

^

What this guy said. It clearly wasn't referring to combat, but ambition. The official website confirms this: Sidious was content to observe Maul's actions from afar, but his conquest of Mandalore and desire to "rule entire worlds" threatened to upset Sidious's own scheme.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm on mobile web right now so I don't feel like scrolling way back to check, but I thought you used the word snarl.

I only used it while talking about his duel with Yoda.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Anyway, I guess you can argue that. But in my opinion, he didn't seem too tired considering that he resorted to saber duel again instead of the force, and how he was easily evading all of Savage's attacks without having his sabers even ignited.

Just because he continues to engage Savage and Maul is a lightsaber duel does not mean he was not tired. Why else would he show a clear sign of fatigue? Anyway, it shouldn't take a ton of effort on Sidious's part to evade Savage's attacks. After all, Dooku was doing the same thing.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He just didn't seem to find Savage a threat at all by his conduct.

Certainly not when Maul was down.

Originally posted by ares834

Just because he continues to engage Savage and Maul is a lightsaber duel does not mean he was not tired. Why else would he show a clear sign of fatigue? Anyway, it shouldn't take a ton of effort on Sidious's part to evade Savage's attacks. After all, Dooku was doing the same thing.

So your argument is that he was tired and fighting for his life, yet he chose to keep his sabers powered down rather than using them for defense? Your argument is also that it shouldn't take a lot of effort for him to evade, yet he was tired from doing so?

Just want to make sure that I have this correct.

Not at all. In fact, both are wrong. Had you actually read my posts rather than make massive assumptions you would realize this as I never claimed either.

use your aggressive feelings boy.

Originally posted by ares834
Not at all. In fact, both are wrong. Had you actually read my posts rather than make massive assumptions you would realize this as I never claimed either.

Gotcha. That's what you wrote but not what you meant. Clear and straight forward as can be.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Gotcha. That's what you wrote but not what you meant. Clear and straight forward as can be.

Oh. And where did I write any of that? I never once said he was fighting for his life. Not once. In fact, when S66 claimed Sidious was not fighting for his life I agreed.

Nor did I state that he was tired from evading Savage's blows. By the time it's Sidious vs Savage and Sids begins to evade Savage's blows he is already tired. My point was since this should not take much effort he should be able to do this despite already being fatigued. This, of course, was in response to S66's post where he is claiming that since Palaptine was effortlessly evading Savage's blows he is likely not tired. Now I'll admit, had you read only my post I can understand the confusion but if you had read S66's post I was responding to it should be fairly obvious what I was saying.

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Perhaps you should follow your own advice DP (regarding the Obi-Wan is a better swordsman than Kit argument).

Unless some canon quote stated that, then you should have kept it to yourself.

Your double standards grow tiring.

Greetings Maestro Takai, any thoughts on UFC 156?

Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Perhaps you should follow your own advice DP (regarding the Obi-Wan is a better swordsman than Kit argument).

Unless some canon quote stated that, then you should have kept it to yourself.

Your double standards grow tiring.

Exactly where are the double standards JT? Please enlighten me.

Kit Fisto got Uber blitzed by Sidious. Something that clearly doesn't happen to Opress, so obviously wouldn't happen to Obi-Wan. Not even close.

The real double standard here is people insisting on comparing Fisto and Obi-Wan from their early CW fights against Grievous. But then refusing to make a similar comparison of how Obi-Wan did against the brothers compared to Sidious (in Sabers).

If your referring to the Cestus Deception that is a completely moot point. That was just after AOTC. Obi-Wan has proven himself to have grown superior to Ventress since then(as early as the CW movie). Fisto hasn't.

In fact his blitz by Sidious is clear proof he wasn't even close to a late CW or ROTS Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yes which means that you are lowballing them.

DP doesn't want to accept well supported arguments, but he expects others to accept his silly notions.

LOL..

Well supported arguments my ass. Make all the excuses you want for Maul doing so well in the Saber fight S66.

It's just like the "well supported arguments" people used to give to claim Sidious threw the fight against Mace Windu.

Then Lucas comes out and says Mace legitimately overpowered him which shut most of them up.

Moral of the story (which you guys obviously haven't learned):

Accept the fight that's given, unless a canon source clearly states that there's something else going on behind the scenes.

And what was the fight given? Sidious had the upper hand the whole fight due to his far superior TK powers. But the Saber fight was more than just a challenge for him. Heck Maul alone held his own in Sabers and was even stalemating him in the last fight.

Of course your reactions were all predictable. Tempest masturbating over Sidious's TK then going completely over the top claiming Sidious could have killed them any time and they were no challenge at all. Predictable.

S66 claiming Sidious wasn't trying after his butt hurt of seeing Maul do so well against Sidious in Sabers. Also predictable.

Neph agreeing with both ridiculous claims because he clearly doesn't like the Zabraks. Completely predictable.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Eminence, this is the droids quote you're looking for:

'Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.'

Now I'm likely so biased that the words are literal hallucinations designed to conform to my twisted world-view, but to me that definitely suggests Sidious steadily increasing his speed to overwhelm Maul.

Yeah and all this is completely non-canon. Because what actually happened was Maul brought Dual Sabers to the last fight and was stalemating Sidious back and forth (in Speed and Skill) for a while.
Heck Maul was even parrying both of Sidious's sabers with just on arm on more than one occasion. Oh and the Saber lock started off with Sidious on his Knees 😉
Then eventually Sidious overpowers Maul in the Saber lock, and wastes no time to use his superior force powers on him.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Sidious was most likely refering to all the stuff Maul had accomplished in such little time. Maul became a threat to Sidious plans for galactic domination. Obviously Maul wasn't a rival as far as taking Sidious out in combat, because we see how effortlessly Sidious can ragdoll Maul with the force alone.

Hey, putting up as much fight as he did is still pretty impressive 🙂

And he had a strong student who would grow in skill over time.

The Lawless
Meanwhile, Sidious duels the Sith brothers, never wavering from his position of superiority. Fueled by the dark side, Sidious is transformed into an agile, whirlwind of destruction. He strikes down Savage, killing the monstrous Nightbrother.

The Lawless
Maul attempts to avenge his brother's death, but he simply cannot defeat Sidious' power. Sidious disarms his former apprentice, batters him with Force pushes, and inundates him with Sith lightning.

IGN
Filoni: It turned out really great. It’s nice to see the villain of Star Wars really kick the butt of other villains you think are powerful, which helps establish Sidious as “Oh, yeah. This is why he is the Sith Lord.”

IGN: He really always does have the upper hand in that fight.

Filoni: And he’s enjoying himself while he does it.

Per the website and Filoni, Sidious is never on the losing end of this duel and always has the upper hand (which precludes a stalemate). Moreover, he was enjoying himself. But the most damning statement of all? Filoni describes this brawl as an ass kicking.

And so the intangible notion of Zabrak parity fades away like smoke in the wind.

/discussion

And yet no where does it say in any of these sources that Sidious was holding back. That's just a made up fallacy on this board.

Of course he did kick ass out of both of them. We all saw that.

Of course against Maul all the "ass kicking" shown was through Sidious's superior force powers. He held his own in Sabers right up until the Saber lock at the end.

So yeah /discussion.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
And yet no where does it say in any of these sources that Sidious was holding back. That's just a made up fallacy on this board.

Of course he did kick ass out of both of them. We all saw that.

Of course against Maul all the "ass kicking" shown was through Sidious's superior force powers. He held his own in Sabers right up until the Saber lock at the end.

So yeah /discussion.

Let's see... laughing and grinning the ENTIRE time, not going for the kill on several occasions, nonchalantly battling Oppress/toying with him, flat-out stating that he wasn't going to kill Maul, casually owning both of them with the Force... the list goes on and on and on...

And as was already pointed out; Sidious seems to laugh only when he's toying with another opponent and doesn't feel that he's in any danger.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
I already acknowledged the extraordinary difficulty in trying to navigate that, but let's be honest: it's not like that sort of thing hasn't been going on for ages now.

Starkiller and The Force Unleashed is a prime example of that. We see Vader labor around like a geriatric against geriatrics in the original trilogy, but here he's collapsing buildings, throwing big ass platforms like frisbees, and generally being a badass to an exponentially greater degree. Starkiller drags capital ships out of orbit, flexes his arms and disintegrates them entirely, and so on.

Feat-to-feat, he'd waste Bane... but no one likes to say that.

Star Wars: The Clone Wars mortally injured the notion that "lol Obi-Wan is teh 4th best Jedi in the PT!" by seeding the series with rivals who, despite their paltry exposure, compete with him on some level.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
It's stated in pretty much every series of Star Wars books that different Force users are skilled in different areas of the Force. One of the handbooks discusses the fact that Force speed feats are not equal among all Force users even when they are similar in power.

Since we're on the subject of Bane anyway, he speaks to Zannah having the potential to surpass him, yet he directs her towards sorcery because she has an affinity for it and trains her in Soresu because he sees that she will never be able to simply overpower her opponents. Clearly she is a strong Force user, but that does not directly translate into her having greater physical strength and speed than others. The knight who was wearing her down did not have nearly her total ability in the Force, but he was greatly skilled in directing the Force into saber combat. If raw power were all it took then he would have stood no chance against her.

We see Luke pin Caedus like a child, yet Luke didn't exactly come out unscathed once they engaged in saber combat. Innate ability, training, and total connection with the Force all play into what one can do.

Beyond that, if the Force were the end all, be all of combat then Mandos, assassins, etc would never be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Gonna have to disagree with you here Nepth. It's pretty clear that in the absence of feats, Dooku can be powerscaled to at least Darth Nyriss level, lighting wise. It'd be ridiculous to assume that Sidious and Dooku are vastly inferior to the likes of Darth Nyriss.

When have Count Dooku demonstrated the ability to utterly destroy individuals of the caliber of Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik with FL?

Sidious seems to be close to Nyriss in this aspect. However, I am hesitant to put even him on par with Nyriss in this context since he haven't utterly destroyed powerful opponents with FL either.

Make no mistake; Nyriss is actually an extraordinarily powerful Force-wielder and can be easily ranked among the most prominent ones in the mythos. She put the likes of Nihilus, Traya and Sion to shame and these 3 aren't weaklings either but very powerful individuals in their own right.

Dark Councilors of TOR era comprise of some real bad@sses.