Star Brand vs Infinity Gauntlet

Originally posted by rotiart
You say multiverse I say universe

Especially considering how Hercules was able to restore what chaos king destroyed...

And that mikaboshi was defeated by throwing him into another universe...

And also since oblivion treats chaos king as only an aspect of hisself...

But we shall agree to disagree with you trying to bring up something to this thread that doesn't belong.

:-/

So that means CK and CW Herc were multiversal but the IG's are "only" universal.

Originally posted by rotiart
Ignoring current storylines....
In the past living tribunal went up against Adam warlock and questioned whether he could wrest the power from him...

When eshkigal had the star brand I don't remember the big guy having any qualms about it...

So apparently he wasn't too confident in his chances if he was gonna call in backup to take her on.

Marquis of Death >>> Infinity Gauntlet. peaches

^^ pfft

Originally posted by zopzop

Dude, did you see Thor Annual 1 (2012) it was CONFIRMED on
panel that Chaos King almost destroyed the entire MULTIVERSE. And
CW Herc restored it.

So that means CK and CW Herc were multiversal but the IG's are "only" universal.

But if either of them enter the 616 Reality they get stomped by the IG.

As of now, until Hickman tells more, withIN that sphere of influence, you are all powerful.

Originally posted by zopzop

Rotiart, you must have missed that scene where the LT said he
would enlist the mighty of the multiverse to go up against Erishkigal
with the Starbrand if she didn't desist.

This is just, the Starbrand, which didn't even register to the LT on its own.
Btw, even After the Amp ... LT felt she may be a "potential peer to the abstract Entities"
But could not "withstand the power of the Living Tribunal"😉 ... guess you can flip a coin.

Erishkigal needed to expend vast amounts of energy just to open a dimensional portal.

Erishkigal never acquired any kind of cosmic awareness,
and she also had no sense of placement when she exits her reality.

We gotta keep real baby. 😄

Where exactly does it say that the multiverse is what chaos king destroyed?

Scrier and the other have been around at the beginning and will do battle until the end of the multiverse...

Oblivion mentions how what chaos king did is but a prelude to what scrier and the other would bring about...

Yet scrier and the other worried about the end of the universe due to galactus fighting...

Yeah. And oblivion saying he wants the end of the multiverse but that chaos king not being able to bring the end he wants is cause chaos king is only an aspect of oblivion... Doesn't explicitly say he was doing it. Heck thanos in "the end" has a better on panel portrayal of ending it all.

Originally posted by rotiart
Where exactly does it say that the multiverse is what chaos king destroyed?

Originally posted by rotiart
Where exactly does it say that the multiverse is what chaos king destroyed?

Scrier and the other have been around at the beginning and will do battle until the end of the multiverse...

Oblivion mentions how what chaos king did is but a prelude to what scrier and the other would bring about...

Yet scrier and the other worried about the end of the universe due to galactus fighting...

Yeah. And oblivion saying he wants the end of the multiverse but that chaos king not being able to bring the end he wants is cause chaos king is only an aspect of oblivion... Doesn't explicitly say he was doing it. Heck thanos in "the end" has a better on panel portrayal of ending it all.

But here is the proof that it was the multiverse :

Originally posted by ODG
It was stated a few times within the actual Chaos War issues.

rotiart was on "team universe".

more terminology gaffes from marvel. be AWESOME if they put up a massive chart in their offices and told everyone exactly what is what and forced everyone to adhere to the same definitions and terminology. it would avoid a great deal of unnecessary wrangling and head scratching.....

@MrMaster, Galan, Leo and anyone else who's interested:

Hickman explains why he seemingly downscaled the IG:

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@MrMaster, Galan, Leo and anyone else who's interested:

Hickman explains why he seemingly downscaled the IG:

Hickman's response is reasonable, even if he can't spell.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@MrMaster, Galan, Leo and anyone else who's interested:

Hickman explains why he seemingly downscaled the IG:

i agree whole-heartedly. fortunately it was never shown operating in any alternate universes anyway, so no real harm done imo. he's right though, the logic didn't hold and i applaud him for seeing it.

Originally posted by Mr Master

Perhaps.

But if either of them enter the 616 Reality they get stomped by the IG.

As of now, until Hickman tells more, withIN that sphere of influence, you are all powerful.

This isn't Starbrand merged with the Nexus Guardians inside the Nexus of all realities.

This is just, the Starbrand, which didn't even register to the LT on its own.
Btw, even After the Amp ... LT felt she may be a "potential peer to the abstract Entities"
But could not "withstand the power of the Living Tribunal"😉 ... guess you can flip a coin.

Erishkigal needed to expend vast amounts of energy just to open a dimensional portal.

Erishkigal never acquired any kind of cosmic awareness,
and she also had no sense of placement when she exits her reality.

We gotta keep real baby.

Look how the LT dealt with Warlock and his little tantrum :

Look at how the LT could not just snap his fingers and undo what Erishkigal was doing with the Starbrand, right to his face :

Look at the LT standing up to Warlock with the IG without needing to call in backup :

vs this
The LT stating he'll enlist the mighty of the MULTIVERSE to attack Erishkigal if she doesn't desist :

And to drive the point across, he stated point blank that a direct war against her (with his little buddies) would cause MORE damage than her rocking the Cosmic Axis.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree whole-heartedly. fortunately it was never shown operating in any alternate universes anyway, so no real harm done imo. he's right though, the logic didn't hold and i applaud him for seeing it.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree whole-heartedly. fortunately it was never shown operating in any alternate universes anyway, so no real harm done imo. he's right though, the logic didn't hold and i applaud him for seeing it.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@MrMaster, Galan, Leo and anyone else who's interested:

Hickman explains why he seemingly downscaled the IG:

This response makes absolutely no sense.
What does "infinite" have to do with this case? Cap only tried to push away one universe from within the gems native 616 reality. 😐

By saying "things have to be tweaked and discarded", he's basically saying "hey I'll just shit on any concept at any given time according to what I want to do".

@ zop

That "potential peer" to the abstracts scan actually hurts your case. The IG being beyond all abstracts is cemented.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
It was shown operating in a different reality in Ultraverse. The logic didn't hold in his opinion. It's a fictional concept, revolving around a completely unrealistic artifact of great power which literally defies logic and common sense, so him being right about it or not is a moot point.

a gray area imo in the sense that the ultraverse was actually owned by marvel and this was their 'tool' to bring it into the fold. so many inconsistencies in that arc make it nearly impossible to fit into the more 'mainstream' ig history. like i said earlier--the ultraverse idea has never been brought up in the what, 10 years since that initial merger? and it's not like there hasn't been the chance to do so many many times. the whole ultraverse was phased out. i'd always assumed it had been retconned, and now clearly it has been.

and while i agree to a certain extent with your premise regarding its unreality and hence the "mootness" of his point, i disagree completely with the notion that the ig, by default, should, as a fictional, all-powerful artifact, not have to adhere to logic--or rather as logic dictated by the comicbook world. even comics have their internal logic. when that consistency is blatantly ignored, well, that's why we have pis. we can apply your idea (about defying logic) across the board in comics, from simple things like someone being strong enough to physically move a planet, to people traveling ftl. but at some point suspension of disbelief can no longer be upheld if we no longer believe in the internal consistency of the world marvel has created. when internal inconsistencies continue to crop up (no logical reason that i know of--apart from anthropocentrism--that the '616' ig should be more powerful than any other alternate version) then the whole thing goes to hell.

imo all hickman did was simply reinforce an idea i thought was self-evident (the retcon of the whole malibu fiasco). the ig was never shown to be effective in alternate multiverses aside from our own, so i don't really see anything he did as being impactful (retroactively or presently) on the ig at all.

Originally posted by zopzop

If Hickman keeps this up, I may have to reconsider calling him a moron 😛

and if you keep THIS up, i'll have to reconsider calling you the same.

heh 😛

oh, and of course to further support the 'gray area' i mentioned with the malibu-verse, while it was shown to work there after marvel bought it, the other reality where it was shown to NOT work was obviously dc. marvel owns malibu, it works, it doesn't own dc, it doesn't work. coincedence....? not in this guy's humble opinion.

Originally posted by Sundipped
@ zop

That "potential peer" to the abstracts scan actually hurts your case. The IG being beyond all abstracts is cemented.

He NEVER threatened to enlist others to his side when dealing with Warlock with the IG. He never merely snapped his fingers and undid Erishkigal's "t|t fit" like he did with Adam with the IG.

So, yeah.

Originally posted by leonidas
and if you keep THIS up, i'll have to reconsider calling you the same.

heh 😛

Originally posted by zopzop

🙁

😂

oh zop, even though we don't always agree, you know i think you're a good poster here. and the push you're trying to give the starbrand only adds to your worth imo. i've loved the starbrand since the new universe days (i'm likely the only guy on here who has all the issues of all the new universe series! 😆 aside from starbrand the rest were pretty crappy, though justice had moments as did psi-force....

Originally posted by leonidas
😂

oh zop, even though we don't always agree, you know i think you're a good poster here. and the push you're trying to give the starbrand only adds to your worth imo. i've loved the starbrand since the new universe days (i'm likely the only guy on here who has all the issues of all the new universe series! 😆 aside from starbrand the rest were pretty crappy, though justice had moments as did psi-force....

I was gonna start a respect thread for the Star Brand but decided not too because it wasn't worth it, but this blatant lowballing of the Star Brand is making me reconsider.