Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do realize that a HIGHER form of Canon has him as a much more formidable foe.. you do know the levels of canon right?
LOE and ROTS novel are both C-canon.
And we've seen the treatment Yoda gave Ventress. It'd be 10,000 times worse with the General because he has no force defenses.
I'm talking about the Movie.. mace also has a talk with Kenobi.. granted he doesn't say as much as the Novel.. but he makes it abundatly clear The General is a big threat and worthy foe.
I agree Yoda would tool him.. doesn't change the highest form of canon and supporting canon making him very very formidable.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm talking about the Movie.. mace also has a talk with Kenobi.. granted he doesn't say as much as the Novel.. but he makes it abundatly clear The General is a big threat and worthy foe.I agree Yoda would tool him.. doesn't change the highest form of canon and supporting canon making him very very formidable.
Oh I agree that the General is a formidable threat. I hate what TCW has done to his character.
Arhael
Wrong. Kenobi consistently struggles against Grievous. Ventress' victory wasn't easy easy either. Filoni only confirmed that Kenobi is top league saber combatant, yet, RotS Kenobi ones again has difficult fight against him. Grievous is not a threat for "real Jedi"? Grievous has always being threat for Kenobi and he barely defeated him in RotS. So according to what you said Kenobi must be fake Jedi. What a joke. I guess only fake Jedi can outskill brothers combined and defeat chosen one. Your speculation about evolving imbued by facepalms is not withstanding.
You'll get the quote and its source as soon as I find it or a concession and apology (on that particular point, at least) if I don't.
Arhael
Nevertheless, he refers to fight between Kenobi and Grievous as "good fight".He' also, says: "It doesn't mean he is not a threat". So your statement that he is not a threat for "real Jedi" still notwithstanding.
As with the conclusion of the duel with Ventress, I'm going to assume you just didn't pay attention as opposed to lying.
Filoni
It's not that great of a challenge for Kenobi once he gets Grievous on one-to-one terms
Filoni
That's not to say he's not a threat. He'll fight you with his lightsabers and gut you with his gun when you're not looking. He's not gonna play fair. He's gonna do whatever he has to do to win and that's what makes Grievous kind of a challenge for the Jedi, who are used to very elegant fighting and fighting on a very fair level.
Or, to borrow your terms, Grievous can't take the Jedi "in pure saberz."
Originally posted by The_Tempest
You'll get the quote and its source as soon as I find it or a concession and apology (on that particular point, at least) if I don't.
As with the conclusion of the duel with Ventress, I'm going to assume you just didn't pay attention as opposed to lying.
Or, to borrow your terms, Grievous can't take the Jedi "in pure saberz."
Arhael
I will give apology after you give apology for attempting to dismiss canon evidence because in your opinion Grievous is not a threat for "real Jedi".
...Who asked you to apologize?
Arhael
Grievous put up better fight against Ventress than Fisto. That small detail, which I didn't even notice before doesn't change anything.
Sounds like you shouldn't be so keen to jump the gun, what with all these details you neglect.
Arhael
It goes either way. Ventress was the only one who actually defeated him in pure sabers. Kenobi in every fight was unable to outright defeat Grievous and used TK to achieve the result. Eeth Koth was getting overwhelmed in sabers and use Force push for which got punished by Magnaguards. Fisto used help of his Padawan and Troopers. Then during Jarkai fight he used Force push. Windu was unable to defeat Grievous with sabers and used Force push. Neither side fights fairly.
Right, so by your prescribed logic, only Ventress can equal Grievous "in teh pure saberz." And we edge ever closer to the epiphany that your argument is self-defeating.
All this argument is proving is that Grievous is a terrible terrible medium through which to compare the prowess of different Jedi.
His showings have been hugely inconsistent.
But Arhael's right- Grievous has proven a challenge to everyone he's faced in Saber combat even in TCW. So TCW hasn't changed things too much in that respect.
On the other hand in an All Out, One on One battle, where both combatants are ready, it's pretty clear he'd lose to any Council Member in TCW.
And to be fair Even is we refer to the CW Mini Shaak Ti and Mundi only lost to him after being exhausted from the previous battles.LOE also suggests Grievous wouldn't fair too well against Council Members so not that much has changed really.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do realize that a HIGHER form of Canon has him as a much more formidable foe.. you do know the levels of canon right?
The only canon higher than TCW series is the movies where Grievous gets completely stomped. And nothings mentioned about him being a formidable foe(in the movie). It's mentioned he's a coward who will always run.
And you do realize TCW is created by George Lucas and it was HIS decision to have him losing all these fights.
So stop using Levels of Canonicity as your argument. Because it's really not helping your case.
Oh and this from the ROTS script:
His arms separate and grab all four lightsabers on his belt. His four arms create a flashing display of swordsmanship.
OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught.
So he's never been easy pickings in Sabers. It's not easy defending against his 4 Sabers. Yes I said it- 4 Sabers! End of the day it was his swinging of 4 Sabers that made his strikes as fast as 20 per second.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
All this argument is proving is that Grievous is a terrible terrible medium through which to compare the prowess of different Jedi.His showings have been hugely inconsistent.
But Arhael's right- Grievous has proven a challenge to everyone he's faced in Saber combat even in TCW. So TCW hasn't changed things too much in that respect.
On the other hand in an All Out, One on One battle, where both combatants are ready, it's pretty clear he'd lose to any Council Member in TCW.
And to be fair Even is we refer to the CW Mini Shaak Ti and Mundi only lost to him after being exhausted from the previous battles.LOE also suggests Grievous wouldn't fair too well against Council Members so not that much has changed really.
The only canon higher than TCW series is the movies where Grievous gets completely stomped. And nothings mentioned about him being a formidable foe(in the movie). It's mentioned he's a coward who will always run.
And you do realize TCW is created by George Lucas and it was HIS decision to have him losing all these fights.
So stop using Levels of Canonicity as your argument. Because it's really not helping your case.
I'm curious.. do you consider the ROTS Novel to be the same Canonicity as the TCW series?
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I'm curious.. do you consider the ROTS Novel to be the same Canonicity as the TCW series?
Oohh That's a hard one.
TCW is created and executive produces by Lucas. And all the big stories come from him and he has the final say on pretty much Everything.
But the Novel was based on Lucas's story and script and was apparently line edited by him.
So I'd say they're very close. Both just below the movies themsleves, and the movie scripts, which are all G-Canon.
But I'd personally go for TCW since that's newer, more up to date, and Lucas's latest decision on matters go into there (he changes his mind a lot).
But like I wrote above even in TCW Grievous has given pretty much everyone a hard time in Saber Combat. The majority defeat him with a Force Push. The only one whose so far defeated him in pure Saber combat (without resorting to a Force TK attack) is Ventress.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERWhen did that happen? I only ask because I remember Grievous easily defeating Ventress(and Durge) during 'The Clone Wars'(2003 series)..?
The only one whose so far defeated him in pure Saber combat (without resorting to a Force TK attack) is Ventress.
Her skills must have increased significantly since then.
Originally posted by Galan007
When did that happen? I only ask because I remember Grievous easily defeating Ventress(and Durge) during 'The Clone Wars'(2003 series)..?Her skills must have increased significantly since then.
TCW Season 4 episode 19 - Massacre.
His beating of Ventress and Durge wasn't the 2003 series. It was another Eu source. A comic book I think.
And she was confirmed to have got more powerful in the season 3 episode "Nightsisters" when Sidious ordered her assassination specifically because her power was growing.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh and this from the ROTS script:His arms separate and grab all four lightsabers on his belt. His four arms create a flashing display of swordsmanship.
OBI-WAN is hard-pressed to defend himself against the deadly onslaught.
So he's never been easy pickings in Sabers. It's not easy defending against his 4 Sabers. Yes I said it- 4 Sabers! End of the day it was his swinging of 4 Sabers that made his strikes as fast as 20 per second.
Still 20 per second is nothing to sneeze at...that's NJO Luke levels.
Originally posted by Galan007
Contrary to how Grievous has been portrayed in the animated series(his loss to Fisto was simply embarrassing), the fact still remains that he was able to give a few of the best swordsmen in the Jedi Order(namely Obi-Wan and Mace) and very good saber fight. There aren't many who can boast the same.
Someone should have given Kit two sabers against Sidious with that performance. 😎