A quote that misread, might have been.
/Yoda
Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, paper back edition, pg 315
Among the other Jedi, perhaps only Mace Windu would have been his equal on neutral ground: but here on Vjun, steeped in the dark side, his bladework was malice made visible--wickedness cut in red light.
^ The quote does not read that Mace Windu might be the Count's equal on neutral ground, it reads that Mace might be the only one (as in, there may be others).
Originally posted by The_Tempest
^ Bingo.
Yes. The point also stands that Mace Windu could perhaps stand on even ground with the Count. Perhaps he couldn't, perhaps there was another (Anakin) who could.
Anyway we're arguing semantics here. I'm not even arguing that Dooku> Windu. Only that Dooku=Windu. I've succeeded in that.
Semantics aside, that they are equals makes no sense. Dooku stated outright that he knew himself to be no match for Sidious. Windu defeated Sidious. Even taking Vaapad into account, clearly Anakin will be tapping the Darkside as well, meaning Windu will be able to use that and Shatterpoint to maximum effect. Anakin's eyes were already turning before RotS was over, and it's stated in more than one source that one must use immense amounts of Darkside energy or work with it for years before that begins. Pretty clear which of the two situations refers to Anakin.
Also, considering that thanks to this weekend's episode we're clear on the fact that Barriss> Dooku & is Anakin's equal, perhaps even superior to him as well had he not been aided by the guards and not able to get out into the open, I feel it's safe to say that knowing Mace can defeat Offee, he can also take Anakin.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Semantics aside, that they are equals makes no sense.
Dooku stated outright that he knew himself to be no match for Sidious. Windu defeated Sidious.
Even taking Vaapad into account, clearly Anakin will be tapping the Darkside as well, meaning Windu will be able to use that and Shatterpoint to maximum effect. Anakin's eyes were already turning before RotS was over, and it's stated in more than one source that one must use immense amounts of Darkside energy or work with it for years before that begins. Pretty clear which of the two situations refers to Anakin.
Okay, it still won't give him the edge that people think it will. I'm kind of tired of people making it seem that unless you are Yoda or Luke Godwalker you can't compete with Mace in sabers.
This is wrong.
Your perceptions aside it's been stated multiple times that Dooku was Mace's superior in bladework. It's also been stated that prime Qui-Gon was his equal.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Dooku has never been said to be Mace's superior in blade work. And we've been over the Qui-Gon thing before: you've never produced the quote.
Yes...yes he has. It's been stated the only people who could outspar Mace were Dooku and Yoda.
As for the quote, I've identified it, it's in TPM novel. If anyone has a copy.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yes...yes he has. It's been stated the only people who could outspar Mace were Dooku and Yoda.
No... No it wasn't. It was said Mace had only ever lost to those two, not that Dooku was his superior. The difference between the two concepts should be obvious enough not to require further elaboration.
And what about Qui-Gon?
Originally posted by Mizukage YodaSidious also refrained from making Mace eat saber with his force lightning.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
[B]No... No it wasn't. It was said Mace had only ever lost to those two, not that Dooku was his superior. The difference between the two concepts should be obvious enough not to require further elaboration.
And what about Qui-Gon?
The quote is in TPM novel. I just can't seem to locate a good torrent for it. 😎
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I never said such a quote existed, but the bottom line remains that Dooku may have bested him once during their long careers. More importantly, that Dooku beat Mace doesn't mean the reverse never occurred.
Burden of proof is on you mate. I know for a fact that it's been stated that Dooku outspared Windu prior to leaving the order. No such quote exists suggesting the opposite.
^ And that's just 1 of 3 quotes that suggests Dooku >/= Mace. The other two are in DR.
The only source I can think of that may suggest that Mace >/= Dooku is not a quote, but a fight they had in "Obsession." They seemed to have fought quite evenly but Dooku fled.
But TCW seems to have pretty much rendered that comic non-canon anyway.
Then of course if you look at their performances against foes they both fought- Sora Bulq and Ventress- Dooku actually looked superior. Though that's speculative. But nothing ever showed Mace to be outright superior to Dooku that's for sure.
That idea all seems to come down to the fact that he beat Sidious.