Obviously, despite the impressive job it does here, I'm not equating Harley's "whammer" equal to what Bill could deliver with his magically enchanted mallet and Thor-level strength. Can't think of much Bill's done ON the level of Harley doing this, mind you, but I'm not making that case. Just want to point out that Kara can take a lot of non-magical force while barely missing a beat ...
Originally posted by bluewaterrider
What? What wasn't to like about it?Unless it was the random flight powers the Doomsdays developed.
THAT was a little TOO over the top ...
I didn't like that whole Doomsday arc, and I dislike Robinson as a writer when it comes to S-related characters. So I had two reasons not to like it.
I also didn't like the JLA roster.
At any rate, the Justice League arcs help corroborate the idea of Supergirl as a formidable fighter, easily on or above the level of Superman in terms of physical force.
Proof is that, except where she goes against Superman himself, who is gifted, not with physical advantage but far greater fight experience, Kara takes nearly ever Superman-analog who comes against her.
Best case-in-point is probably Ultraman, reckoned in nearly every way the physical equal of Kara's cousin.
Yet Supergirl rocked Ultraman in 2 previous encounters.
Despite receiving somewhat of a nerfing from later writer Sterling Gates, Kara does so in her most recent encounter with Ultraman as well:
(Justice League of America #51, Volume 2)
Originally posted by -Pr-
I don't agree that she's on Superman's level.No way is she above him in physical force; she doesn't have the feats.
Then, more or less of necessity, you don't believe that Ultraman was on Superman's level any of the times Kara fought Ultraman.
For fight Ultraman she did.
And she got the better of Ultraman 3 times just like I said.
I could see where it's possible to argue, however, despite the fact that Ultraman had the backup of his apparently superhuman "Praise Singer" women, that the ease of Kara's 1st encounter against him was due to surprise or unpreparedness and/or the intervention of the "other" Kara helping Kara Zor-el ...
Originally posted by -Pr-
Ultraman in general is rarely portrayed as Superman's equal. He's also shown massive inconsistency, reaching highs of Final Crisis, and lows of Trinity and the aforementioned Supergirl arc.His average doesn't make him Superman's equal in general.
I find it telling that you're trying to eliminate Trinity.
That is, of course, the arc that best explains WHY Ultraman, and many others in Superman's physical class, usually loses to Superman himself in direct combat, which is what many people, consciously or unconsciously, use to rank characters against one another.
It is not physical force but fight experience given as the reason for the disparity; the very concept of Ultraman is the physical equal of Superman himself being a villain for Superman to match evenly against.
But, again, as I pointed out before, no matter which encounter of his you choose, Ultraman has been bested, usually ROCKED, by Kara Zor-el in every physical match-up presented to date.
I'm not trying to eliminate anything. All I'm saying is that Trinity, like many other books, shows that Superman is Ultraman's superior. You want to argue that it's down to skill more than strength? That's fine.
That same standard, though, doesn't apply to the likes of Mongul, Darkseid, Wonder Woman etc, all people that Superman has physically dominated at times, and that would all have comparable if not superior strength to Supergirl.
Arguing that Supergirl is Wonder Woman's physical equal would be difficult enough, but Superman is another notch above when it comes to pure brute strength.
Originally posted by -Pr-
Arguing that Supergirl is Wonder Woman's physical equal would be difficult enough, but Superman is another notch above when it comes to pure brute strength.
I'm not directly presenting Supergirl's success against Ultraman for any main argument against Superman here. Not at the moment, at least.
I'm going on the relatively simple premise that people generally accept that Superman is stronger than Beta Ray Bill.
Ultraman is generally accepted as the physical strength equal of Superman. Maybe YOU disagree, but you're not general population, and you certainly don't see eye to eye with the writer of Trinity, who gave nearly exactly the explanation that I did for why Superman wins against Ultraman.
If Supergirl is stronger than Ultraman, however
(it'd be difficult to argue that she's more experienced in fighting than Ultraman during the times in her career that she fought him, I think),
then it logically follows that Kara is ALSO stronger than Beta Ray Bill. So you'd expect to see her with the advantage in that area, in any fight against BRB.