Beta Ray Bill vs Supergirl

I've read that comic. I didn't interpret it the way you did, tbh.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
You're saying that Bill theoretically has more numerous and less effort-intensive options than Kara, thanks to Stormbreaker, which I agree with.

Truthfully, I am actually disappointed that no one from Beta Ray Bill's side has stepped forward to present what some of those options might be.

At the least it would have been nice if Jake had backed up his claim that Mjolnir and Stormbreaker come with "boomerang" protections for their owners.

That's not something anyone could figure out from a casual reading, after all ...

Not specifically what I meant, but that will do I guess.

Originally posted by -Pr-

I've read that comic. I didn't interpret it the way you did, tbh.

😕

The man talks of their difference in skill, knowledge, resourcefulness and fight experience as their primary difference between them and you DON'T think that's the case?

What other way is there to interpret that?

I took it to be Superman teaching him a lesson, about why he was wrong, and one of the reasons why Superman was better than him.

Not that it was the only reason.

Originally posted by Philosophía
Superman is noticeably stronger than Supergirl, who is in the same vicinity with Wonder Woman and Power Girl [and also Thor and Beta Ray Bill]

This is undisputable.

I actually think that WW and PR should be stronger than Thor/BRB.

Far less durable, but stronger.

Originally posted by curryman
I actually think that WW and PR should be stronger than Thor/BRB.

Far less durable, but stronger.

😛

How do you know PR isn't stronger than Thor?
We've never seen him on a bench press machine, after all ...

Against that loser? Pfft, easy win.

Now that I'm thinking of it, though the problem could be that I'm just not extensively exposed to his comics, Thor might serve as a good illustration for the type of physical strength scale-back that sometimes occurs with characters.

Earlier tonight, for instance, I posted Thor taking on Gladiator.

He got rather the worst of the encounter.

At one point, in fact, Gladiator simply punted Mjolnir away and then knocked Thor into the air after it, to crash senseless atop some car in subsequent panels.

That's relatively "Modern" Thor, New Milennium or thereabouts, if memory serves. A story of the 2000s featuring Tarene the Designate (who bails Thor out of the situation) and Odin, who ultimately sends Gladiator away.

Contrast his poor performance of the past decade to one from the PREVIOUS decade, however. Thor is given a LOT more respect when he faces Gladiator here, as ally to the Fantastic Four and Sharon the She-Thing ...

He also fights smarter.

Thor of today might find himself taking Gladiator's shot.

And falling to it.

Here? Thor has enough sense to know he should probably avoid lasers coming from people's eyes, to say little of the fact that he has enough SPEED to pull light deflection off with Mjolnir ...

Modern Thor seems to have forgotten a lot of what this guy once knew ...

lmfao at PR, I meant PG xD

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
At one point, in fact, Gladiator simply punted Mjolnir away and then knocked Thor into the air after it, to crash senseless atop some car in subsequent panels.

That's relatively "Modern" Thor, New Milennium or thereabouts, if memory serves. A story of the 2000s featuring Tarene the Designate (who bails Thor out of the situation) and Odin, who ultimately sends Gladiator away.

Bro you are so far off on this.

A stronger Gladiator from the future was sent back in time by Zarrko to stop Thor from becoming King Thor.

He froze Tarene with his ice-breath and then fought Thor. They are doing well until Thor loses his hammer and suddenly turns into Jake (a restriction that was removed years prior to that fight....) and when Thor returns he loses his patience and beats the shit out of Gladiator.

Then Tarene shows up and blasts Gladiator as he's losing.

That's all.

Originally posted by curryman

A stronger Gladiator from the future was sent back in time by Zarrko to stop Thor from becoming King Thor.

😕

"Stronger?"

The two of them have trouble stopping a 747 together!
What makes you think Gladiator's any stronger than normal in that story, let alone Thor?

Originally posted by curryman

He froze Tarene with his ice-breath and then fought Thor.

They are doing well until Thor loses his hammer and suddenly turns into Jake (a restriction that was removed years prior to that fight....)

Froze Tarene, I agree. She was new to this sort of thing after all.

"Loses" his hammer?

How about "Gladiator kicks his hammer away?"

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14254322

I can't be sure you're right about the order, certainly doesn't sound right ... why would Tarene need to intervene at all, otherwise?

Restrictions being put back in place would be support for my idea that Thor gets nerfed as time progresses, however
(weakness added to the character as opposed to strength).

Originally posted by curryman

when Thor returns he loses his patience and beats the &*% out of Gladiator. Then Tarene shows up and blasts Gladiator as he's losing.

Thor gets that opening because Gladiator helps him with the plane, though. Then Thor more or less ambushes him. Least that's how I'm seeing it.

On the other hand, it's been a long time since I first saw that fight, so I can't say I'm remembering the entirety of it.
Really only Thor's trashing, Tarene's intervention and doing better than Thor until Gladiator's freeze trick, and the odd difficulty Thor and Glads have with the passenger airline.

Here, take a look, I saved this specific scan a long time ago because it was JUST that jarring to me:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=14238215

Obviously they're gonna have trouble stopping a plane without causing any damage to people.

I don't need scans, I've read the fighta million times.

Nor do I care about you thinking the order is off because this is pretty obviously you intentionally mis-remembering the fight to try and put Thor in a poorer light 🙂

Why are we talking about Future! Gladiator getting absolutely wrecked by Thor once he stops holding back?

If I was trying to put Thor in a poorer light, why bother to show his good showing against Gladiator, the one just displayed where he called Gladiator a braggart and sat him down?

Why, for that matter, would I be the only one to show a strength feat for Thor in this entire thread, molding an entire tank down to a hammer sized replacement for Mjolnir?

Thor HAS gotten treated more roughly over the years and as less a purely physical force than he used to be.

There was a time when he could lock arms in combat with Hulk for an hour and they would prove an even match in strength.

Can you imagine anything of that sort happening today?

At any rate, Tarene DOES save Thor, much as I said.
Apparently the punting away of Mjolnir and, subsequently, its master, happened in Thor Volume 2 #34.
The fight with Tarene and rematch occurred in Thor Volume 2 #35.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Why are we talking about Future! Gladiator getting absolutely wrecked by Thor once he stops holding back?

Whether a win for Thor or a win for Gladiator, this encounter is a fairly good representation of a Marvel analog of Superman going against the archetype of Beta Ray Bill.

So it should be a reasonably good indicator of how a fight between Bill and Supergirl might go.

At the least, however, it should hint at the level Thor engagements against high-level flying bricks typically reach.

There is then the matter of determining how Gladiator stacks up against DC Superman or Supergirl, of course, but this at least gives us another starting point.

It's not a fair representation at all.

Neither Thor nor Bill would be subject to such limitations. Hell, he wasn't supposed to be in that comic either....

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
At any rate, Tarene DOES save Thor, much as I said.
Apparently the punting away of Mjolnir and, subsequently, its master, happened in Thor Volume 2 #34.
The fight with Tarene and rematch occurred in Thor Volume 2 #35.

I was referring to the energy blast she delivers.

Originally posted by bluewaterrider
So it should be a reasonably good indicator of how a fight between Bill and Supergirl might go.

But it's not, which is the problem.

Superman is at least a level or two more powerful than Gladiator, whereas Bill, at best, is MAYBE Thor's equal to a point, without being his true equal.

Originally posted by -Pr-
But it's not, which is the problem.

Superman is at least a level or two more powerful than Gladiator, whereas Bill, at best, is MAYBE Thor's equal to a point, without being his true equal.

Even using your reasoning, I'm not seeing where there's a problem.

From what I gather from you for your rankings, considering only physical strength, YOUR chart would be as follows:

Superman
Supergirl = Thor/Gladiator
Ultraman = Beta Ray Bill

... in which cases a nearly perfect case is made for Supergirl having physical advantage in this fight, but the fight perhaps going Bill's way if lots of Stormbreaker magic gets used.

Which is essentially what you've told me on all preceding pages.

Do you disagree with what I have for your rankings above?
Or is there something else you think I'm missing?

Originally posted by bluewaterrider

do you still believe Bill would beat Kara?

Why or why not?

Originally posted by -Pr-

Magic, tbh ...

I'm trying to think of any opponent or opponents Supergirl has gone against that are magic users or beings wielding magic weapons.

Not that many, really.
Mary Marvel in Final Crisis, perhaps.
Wonder Girl, Cassandra Sandsmark, who I would not seriously equate to Thor level under most circumstances,
Banshee, ditto,
Wonder Woman ...

By accident, however, I stumbled across an Amazons Attack issue.

This featured a skyscraper sized Cyclops monster wielding ... a magic hammer. Supergirl has already been injured by some special attack (think a magic arrow by some random Amazon archer?) but this seems as good a place as any to start to give possible props to the Asgard side ...

Kara versus Amazons Attack! Cyclops

Scan 2 of 4.