Royal Rumble! Tiamut vs Galactus + Franklin Richards

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Found what I was looking for. In previous issues Odin stated that this axe was a curse now, and that Thor's actions would haunt Asgard and Midgard for centuries to come, and that they will all pay dearly for what Thor did.

This changes things how?

Rash actions have repercussions. Odin told him to just leave Apoocalypse be (Pact with the Celestials) but he decided to start f*cking with shit.

Celestials are probably going to be pissed and come in force. Might start another war with Asgard over this, who knows.

^An explanation of sorts for why he didn't bother using this enchantment during his battle with the 4th Host.

Edit: Saw your edit. If those alone were his implications, why did he specifically mention the axe being a curse and breaker of worlds, flashy descriptions like that?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^An explanation of sorts for why he didn't bother using this enchantment during his battle with the 4th Host.

Lol. Don't overthink things.

Besides, if the enchantment had existed back in the day, it wouldn't have made any difference. Celestials would have raped Odin anyways.

But this isn't the Thomas era where Odin was a shadow of what he once was and the Celestials were wanked as the greatest shit ever.

I'll forever be annoyed that Asgardian lore was shit on so greatly just to integrate those cosmic teapots into Marvel.

I am talking about in-comic continuity, not out-comic writer-separated eras.

The battle with the 4th Host happened in the 20th/21st century no? A 1000 years(give or take) after Thor's encounter with Apoc. Trying to tie the knots maybe a headache for writers, but I don't see why it should be forbidden for fans.

Hell, I myself am satisfied that Odin, indirectly got his redemption against the Celestials in this manner, not to mention the gravity of the feat becomes even more pronounced when we take into account Pak's recent wankery of Celestials.

Nobody cares whether you're annoyed or not. The comic book medium will sh1t on established characters in order to put over a new threat. The Celestials since then have been punked by Sue Richards, mincontrolled by Sinister, enslaved by the Badoon, struggled with Ego-Prime, lost to Galactus(while Odin performed decently enough) etc etc.

Edit:

Be happy with what you got instead of brooding over a decades old showing.🙂

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am talking about in-comic continuity, not out-comic writer-separated eras.

The battle with the 4th Host happened in the 20th/z1st century no? A 1000 years(give or take) after Thor's encounter with Apoc. Trying to tie the knots maybe a headache for writers, but I don't see why it should be forbidden for fans.

Lol, good luck with that headache then.

I'd like you to try and reconcile Asgardian continuity. During the Fraction/Gillen era it was literally stated that Gods have stories, not histories that are ever changing, different but nonetheless all true. Pretty much them telling us that continuity is worthless.

Of course Fraction is just a lazy bastard. His Bor somehow died when Odin and his brothers were just children in the world that existed before this one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Hell, I myself am satisfied that Odin, indirectly got his redemption against the Celestials in this manner, not to mention the gravity of the feat becomes even more pronounced when we take into account Pak's recent wankery of Celestials.

I'm not. I hope Odin goes around and decapitates a few more of those arrogant f*ckers for good measure.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Nobody cares whether you're annoyed or not. The comic book medium will sh1t on established characters in order to put over a new threat. The Celestials since then have been punked by Sue Richards, mincontrolled by Sinister, enslaved by the Badoon, struggled with Ego-Prime, lost to Galactus(while Odin performed decently enough) etc etc.

My b*tching wasn't really pertinent to this thread, I was just pointing out why I'll always be a bit frustrated with the Celestials.

Meh, the Sue shit while disrespectful was a weakness exploitation. Didn't Sinister manipulate the shell of a dead Celestial? Can you give me an issue number for the Badoon thing, unfamiliar with that one.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Unless you're confusing the enchantment that Thor had to perform to enable his axe to obtain the ability to cleave through Celestial armor, I'd like to see scans of this incident.

Shut up. And I don't mean this jokingly.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Found what I was looking for. In previous issues Odin stated that this axe was a curse now, and that Thor's actions would haunt Asgard and Midgard for centuries to come, and that they will all pay dearly for what Thor did.

Asgardian Axe > A Member of the race that created the multiverse. Marvel is all over the place.

You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Didn't Sinister manipulate the shell of a dead Celestial? Can you give me an issue number for the Badoon thing, unfamiliar with that one.

It was a GoTG story, and it was set in an alternate future. The Badoon used a cosmic cube to enslave the entire Celestial race and use them as giant power generators of sorts or something like that. All that during more or less the same time period(IIRC) when Kubik(a being evolved from a cosmic cube) was going around trembling in fear of a random no-name Celestial's power.

Edit: One could try to argue that the Badoon did that to alternate Celestials, but since Hickman recently solidified that alternate Celestials are more equal to their 616-counterparts, and Pak has all but mentioned that Celestials are unique in the multiverse, I guess this stands as a low showing as well. /shrugs

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You and Rage win.

*Waves white flag before leaving this thread temporarily.*

Do I get a price?

I didn't think we were even debating anything specifically just discussing random nerdy shit.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
That was actually Tiamut, the great Dreaming Celestial himself. And at the end of the series it was implied that he was still alive and inside his shell.

It was a GoTG story, and it was set in an alternate future. The Badoon used a cosmic cube to enslave the entire Celestial race and use them as giant power generators of sorts or something like that. All that during more or less the same time period(IIRC) when Kubik(a being evolved from a cosmic cube) was going around trembling in fear of a random no-name Celestial's power.

Oh, really? I thought he ascended to be come the big cheese or something? Didn't read a lot of Gaiman's work unfortunately (I'll do that sometime soon).

Oh, okay thanks.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Oh, really? I thought he ascended to be come the big cheese or something? Didn't read a lot of Gaiman's work unfortunately (I'll do that sometime soon).

Originally posted by zopzop
No, we all lose. Stupid sh|t like this is why Marvel is a joke.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
So, still giving the victory to Tiamut after all that's happened recently?

Assuming that weapon didn't exploit a weakness, like IW did when she went up against Exitar, then anything powerful enough to kill a Celestial should be powerful enough to kill Galactus or AFR.

If Celestials were easy to kill, Galactus wouldn't have been this surprised when Thanos with the HotU wrecked Ziran :

If you talking about the energy tick, then my answer is the same. That leech wrecked a member of the race that created the multiverse, it would wreck Galactus too.

I am not sure what that scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that Galactus is being surprised by something he himself achieved relatively easily several years later.

Originally posted by zopzop
Assuming that weapon didn't exploit a weakness, like IW did when she went up against Exitar, then anything powerful enough to kill a Celestial should be powerful enough to kill Galactus or AFR.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I am not sure what that scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that Galactus is being surprised by something he himself achieved relatively easily several years later.

On a sidenote, it was like Reed's entropy gun. A random plot-device that Remender pulled out of his ass, much like Hickman. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes up to the Celestials by having them burn both Asgard and Earth to ashes and torture Odin and his ilk in the succeeding issues, with Thor and Apoc somehow coming in to save the day. Conversely, if the OdinVsCelestials rematch is done, and Odin manages to punk them, I wouldn't hold my breath either on that one.

Originally posted by zopzop

He did no such thing. An AMPED verison of him went up against alt reality Celestials. As we've seen, it was the 616 version's death that surprised Galactus. Also, the 616 Celestials were the multiverse's creators. That alone puts them far above the alt reality rogues.

Because if you haven't, here's news for you:

Basically speaking, Pak has made Celestials unique throughout the multiverse. They don't have any parallel universe versions since they are the parallel versions of a single entity that exists across the multiverse.

Not to mention that what you're presuming here is entirely ignoring Hickman's intent, which was to portray the Mad Celestials as pretty much the mainstream Celestials' equals in every category save mental coherence.

Originally posted by zopzop

Like I said, assuming NO exploit weakness, that axe should wreck Galactus or Franklin just as easily. So it really doesn't figure into my decision as to who would win this three way showdown.

Pussy attacks like an enchanted axe or an entropy gun might put down Celestials like the big wimps they are, but there is no conclusive proof that they can effect Franklin or Galactus as well.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Have you even been following the Extermination storyline apart from a few random scans that Id posted?

Because if you haven't, here's news for you:

Basically speaking, Pak has made Celestials unique throughout the multiverse. They don't have any parallel universe versions since they [b]are the parallel versions of a single entity that exists across the multiverse.

Not to mention that what you're presuming here is entirely ignoring Hickman's intent, which was to portray the Mad Celestials as pretty much the mainstream Celestials' equals in every category save mental coherence.

Also Hickman's intent means nothing unless it's stated on panel. Writers opinions are even less proof than Handbook entries which are less proof than what's on panel. I could have sworn this was a forum rule.

Hardly. Galactus has on-panel tanked an amped Godblast, while one of the most powerful Celestials had his braincase(which is supposed to be even harder than their armor) blown by a regular one. Franklin also tanked multiple shots from the Celestials, while they fell to just single shots from him.

Pussy attacks like an enchanted axe or an entropy gun might put down Celestials like the big wimps they are, but there is no conclusive proof that they can effect Franklin or Galactus as well.

Also, Exitar was blasted with a Godblast so powerful it shattered Mjolnir. Not to mention this blast happened INSIDE Exitar's M-body.

Regarding the Entropy Gun, it was stated it was so effective because Celestials bleed energy. Well Galactus has been shown to BOTH bleed blood and energy, depending on who is writing the story.

If the axe straight up killed the Celestial sans exploit weakness, it should wreck Galactus or Franklin.

Originally posted by zopzop

That means that 616 Eson is dead because Rogue Eson bit the dust? Makes no sense.

Also Hickman's intent means nothing unless it's stated on panel. Writers opinions are even less proof than Handbook entries which are less proof than what's on panel. I could have sworn this was a forum rule.

I guess that means then that Hickman's statements pertaining how Galactus' showdown with the Mad Celestials would've gone down had they not combined doesn't mean anything either. As well as his comments on Franklin's supposed death and resurrection at the hands of Galactus. Since, you know, writer intent means nothing to you, we should discard these statements as well and accept that Galactus was the strongest non-combined entity portrayed in that arc.

Originally posted by zopzop

When did Galactus tank a Godblast? I hope you don't mean that one attack with Rachel/Surfer/Thor in that THor Annual because that's vague as hell and inconclusive.

Also, Exitar was blasted with a Godblast so powerful it shattered Mjolnir. Not to mention this blast happened INSIDE Exitar's M-body.

Regarding the Entropy Gun, it was stated it was so effective because Celestials bleed energy. Well Galactus has been shown to BOTH bleed blood and energy, depending on who is writing the story.

If the axe straight up killed the Celestial sans exploit weakness, it should wreck Galactus or Franklin.

Doesn't matter. It goes to show that while Galactus can tank an amped GB head-on, Exitar's most durable body part can't to the same to a regular one.

In that same series Galactus was heavily implied to be the sole survivor(apart from adult Franklin) of the eventual Heat Death of the Universe. Google what the Heat Death means, and laugh at your argument.

No, it wouldn't, seeing how it killed neither Apoc(who was wearing Celestial armor in that instance) nor Thor.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Take it up with Pak.

I guess that means then that Hickman's statements pertaining how Galactus' showdown with the Mad Celestials would've gone down had they not combined doesn't mean anything either. As well as his comments on Franklin's supposed death and resurrection at the hands of Galactus. Since, you know, writer intent means nothing to you, we should discard these statements as well and accept that Galactus was the strongest non-combined entity portrayed in that arc.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host.

Unless you're a Thor fan, in which case you could try to raise some arguments to dispute what that attack was, I am not sure whether you can prove it wasn't a Godblast, since we already have proof contrary to such a notion based on the wording of the narrative description of the attack.

Doesn't matter. It goes to show that while Galactus can tank an amped GB head-on, Exitar's most durable body part can't to the same to a regular one.

In that same series Galactus was heavily implied to be the sole survivor(apart from adult Franklin) of the eventual Heat Death of the Universe. Google what the Heat Death means, and laugh at your argument.

No, it wouldn't, seeing how it killed neither Apoc(who was wearing Celestial armor in that instance) nor Thor.

Note that Thor was chanting an ancient spell prior to Godblasting.
c) No one cares about the Heat Death of a universe. There are MULTIPLE universes in a given multiverse and multiple multiveres in a megaverse and multiple megaverses in an omniverse. Galactus will survive the heat death of ONE universe, meanwhile the ASPECTS of 616 reality Celestials will continue on with their thing seeing as how they are MULTIVERSAL beings.