Royal Rumble! Tiamut vs Galactus + Franklin Richards

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
He failed to kill any of them, and I referred the Doom scan in my response to Magnon.

So yeah, still pretty much a non-factor in this fight is the Dreaming Celestial.

See above.

Originally posted by "Id"
The problem is, back then they where written as incapable of being destroyed by each others hand. This does not apply to Franklin Richards, or Galactus.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Knowhere. And they couldn't be destroyed by anything based on Tiamut's account, not just by each other.

It absolutely does, as both stories are part of canon. Celestials were pretty much destructible even before Gaiman's take, and have remained so post-Gaiman.

what tiamut meant was that they cannot be destroyed, and even fellow celestials who know the secrets of their being still don't know how or are unable to kill one of their own.

a celestial dying by the HOTU is kind cheating since it can do anything

Originally posted by zopzop

Yeah it means the most amped version of Galactus seen on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Three no names and Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host.

Nice avoiding of the blatant double-standard that I pointed out regarding your hypocritical stance on Hickman's off-panel statements about those fights.

Originally posted by zopzop

a) Prove it was a Godblast
b) Once you prove a), prove how it was more powerful than this version of the Godblast that destroyed Mjolnir despite Thor's efforts to reinforce it with his Belt of Strength :
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/134088/2680983-thormjolnir139godblast3.jpg
Note that Thor was chanting an ancient spell prior to Godblasting.
c) No one cares about the Heat Death of a universe. There are MULTIPLE universes in a given multiverse and multiple multiveres in a megaverse and multiple megaverses in an omniverse. Galactus will survive the heat death of ONE universe, meanwhile the ASPECTS of 616 reality Celestials will continue on with their thing seeing as how they are MULTIVERSAL beings.

b)I am not sure what this oversized scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that a regular GB(albeit Thor's most powerful one) destroyed the most durable part of Exitar's body, while an amped one failed to make a dent on Galactus.

c)Stupid non-sequiter. You literally claimed that since those entropy guns could affect Celestials, and since Galactus is more or less supposed to be similar to the Celestias in terms of both power and physiology, therefore Galactus too would fall to these things. I again discredited this fecal line of reasoning by highlighting what was implied regarding Galactus' fate during the Heat Death of the Universe, to which you failed to provide an adequate counter. On this note, I'll take your goal-posting shifting as a cloaked concession. 👆

Originally posted by psycho gundam
what tiamut meant was that they cannot be destroyed, and even fellow celestials who know the secrets of their being still don't know how or are unable to kill one of their own.

a celestial dying by the HOTU is kind cheating since it can do anything

Anyways, Tiamut should have told that to the energy tick that drained and killed him. Prolly' would have dissuaded the Exterminator from doing what it did to the Dreamer. 😂

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
"Most amped version of Galactus seen on panel." I loled loudly at this.

Nice avoiding of the blatant double-standard that I pointed out regarding your hypocritical stance on Hickman's off-panel statements about those fights.

Most powerful version of Galactus on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Who were those Rogues? Three no names and an Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host (hint, they weren't no names).

a)Read the comic. You'll find what you're looking for.

b)I am not sure what this oversized scan is supposed to prove, apart from the fact that a regular GB(albeit Thor's most powerful one) destroyed the most durable part of Exitar's body, while an amped one failed to make a dent on Galactus.

c)Stupid non-sequiter. You literally claimed that since those entropy guns could affect Celestials, and since Galactus is more or less supposed to be similar to the Celestias in terms of both power and physiology, therefore Galactus too would fall to these things. I again discredited this fecal line of reasoning by highlighting what was implied regarding Galactus' fate during the Heat Death of the Universe, to which you failed to provide an adequate counter. On this note, I'll take your goal-posting shifting as a cloaked concession. 👆

So you can't prove a) and are completely ignoring that in b) Thor uttered a spell, reinforced Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength and Mjolnir STILL shattered under the strain of the Godblast. Yet Mjolnir was just fine when Thor/Rachel/Surfer channeled their power through it. Something is off, no?

I countered that moronic "Heat Death" argument. The Celestials ARE MULTIVERSAL. They'll survive the Heat Death of a SINGLE UNIVERSE just fine. In fact, they'll survive the Heat Death of MULTIPLE UNIVERSES just fine. Sh|t, they'll survive the Heat Death of an almost INFINITE NUMBER OF Universes just fine because they are MULTIVERSAL BEINGS and there is only ONE of them in a given multiverse. Once Galactus dies, thats it. He's done unless another force or power intervenes and resurrects him.

And who cares what was implied, here it is ON PANEL :

Dr. Strange saving Galactus' ass from Death. So much for an IMPLIED statement that he would make it to the end. If Dr. Strange didn't jump in, he'dve been dead during Infinity War. Plus he was also killed by Abraxas and resurrected by Franklin and Valeria Richards. He was at Death's door when he ate the unkillable Elders and had to be saved by Order/Chaos. Implied don't mean sh|t when on panel proof says otherwise.

Each time he would have been dead if he wasn't saved by someone else. IF he really does make it to the heat death of a universe, its' because other beings have already pitched in and pulled his fat out of the fire and I'm sure they'll do so again for that charity case.

Originally posted by zopzop

I just agreed with you, we can disregard Hickman's formspring comments. It still doesn't change anything.

Most powerful version of Galactus on panel was more powerful than any individual member of the Rogue Celestials. Who were those Rogues? Three no names and an Eson.

Tiamut took out Arishem and was jumped by FOUR members of the Second Host (hint, they weren't no names).

Those Rogues had more feats in 2 issues than the 4th Host have had in decades. Hell, one of them straight up tanked an alternate UN. Arishem on the other hand just got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe. At least the entropy gun was described as being "universal", the axe is just a cleaver of worlds. Based on description alone, a multi-planetary wrecker is enough to outright murder the mightiest member of the 4th Host, while a universal weapon is needed to kill a random, alternate "Rogue". So much for your high and mighty Arishem.

Tiamut fought an extended battle with one Celestial, and failed to put him down for the count. Tiamut got wrecked by the rest of the Host. Galactus(since we're now diregarding Hickman's comments) would have handily dealt with all 4 had they not combined to kamikaze his ass. Franklin Richards was coming from holding off a multiversal collapse, and he still managed to kill one before the others started to overwhelm him.

Originally posted by zopzop

So you can't prove a) and are completely ignoring that in b) Thor uttered a spell, reinforced Mjolnir with his Belt of Strength and Mjolnir STILL shattered under the strain of the Godblast. Yet Mjolnir was just fine when Thor/Rachel/Surfer channeled their power through it. Something is off, no?

I countered that moronic "Heat Death" argument. The Celestials ARE MULTIVERSAL. They'll survive the Heat Death of a SINGLE UNIVERSE just fine. In fact, they'll survive the Heat Death of MULTIPLE UNIVERSES just fine. Sh|t, they'll survive the Heat Death of an almost INFINITE NUMBER OF Universes just fine because they are MULTIVERSAL BEINGS and there is only ONE of them in a given multiverse. Once Galactus dies, thats it. He's done unless another force or power intervenes and resurrects him.

And who cares what was implied, here it is ON PANEL :

Dr. Strange saving Galactus' ass from Death. So much for an IMPLIED statement that he would make it to the end. If Dr. Strange didn't jump in, he'dve been dead during Infinity War. Plus he was also killed by Abraxas and resurrected by Franklin and Valeria Richards. He was at Death's door when he ate the unkillable Elders and had to be saved by Order/Chaos. Implied don't mean sh|t when on panel proof says otherwise.

Each time he would have been dead if he wasn't saved by someone else. IF he really does make it to the heat death of a universe, its' because other beings have already pitched in and pulled his fat out of the fire and I'm sure they'll do so again for that charity case.

You countered nothing. Me bringing up the Heat Death was in specific correlation to your moronic claim that since the Celestials have been affected by a universal entropy based weapon, therefore Galactus would be too. You responded with a complete and utter non-sequiter revolving around the new multiversal nature that Pak has ascribed to Celestials, and I again pointed out the invalidity of this response, the subtlety of which has been lost on you. And now you are going one step ahead into the realm of true retard, and claiming that the Celestials could survive the Heat Death of all universes, when one of them couldn't even survive a weaponized version of the Heat Death? Stop. Just stop.

Lol. In that very same comic, Death literally mentions that Galactus is strong enough to eventually reform himself and the others as well subsequently. I am not sure what you're trying to prove here, that the very Abstract embodiment of death(who also happened to outperform multiple Celestials against Cancerverse) is required to keep Galactus in a dissipated form. Not to mention that this fail response has nothing to do with the Heat Death of the Universe anyways.

Edit: Double lolz at that. 😂 😂

Damn,first time I seen Zop gets told in a cosmic debate 😱

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
No you didn't. You claimed that Galactus was only individually more powerful than the Mad Celestials, when(disregarding Hickman's commentary) he was actually more powerful than them as a team.

Those Rogues had more feats in 2 issues than the 4th Host have had in decades. Hell, one of them straight up tanked an alternate UN. Arishem on the other hand just got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe. At least the entropy gun was described as being "universal", the axe is just a cleaver of worlds. Based on description alone, a multi-planetary wrecker is enough to outright murder the mightiest member of the 4th Host, while a universal weapon is needed to kill a random, alternate "Rogue". So much for your high and mighty Arishem.

Tiamut fought an extended battle with one Celestial, and failed to put him down for the count. Tiamut got wrecked by the rest of the Host. Galactus(since we're now diregarding Hickman's comments) would have handily dealt with all 4 had they not combined to kamikaze his ass. Franklin Richards was coming from holding off a multiversal collapse, and he still managed to kill one before the others started to overwhelm him.

Tiamut wasn't fighting 3 no names and an Eson. Tiamut was going up against the "mightiest" of the Celestials and HAD HIM ON HIS KNEES when the rest of the Second Host jumped in. Not four no names, NAMED Celestials jumped in after the "mightiest" of them was on his knees before Tiamut :

Nothing is off except your excrement of a logic. Both a) and b) have been sufficiently addressed, but it would take only a glopglop like you to completely ignore the arguments presented and go into your "I M RITE!!YOUR RONG!!!DURR!!!!" trollmode.

You countered nothing. Me bringing up the Heat Death was in specific correlation to your moronic claim that since the Celestials have been affected by a universal entropy based weapon, therefore Galactus would be too. You responded with a complete and utter non-sequiter revolving around the new multiversal nature that Pak has ascribed to Celestials, and I again pointed out the invalidity of this response, the subtlety of which has been lost on you. And now you are going one step ahead into the realm of true retard, and claiming that the Celestials could survive the Heat Death of all universes, when one of them couldn't even survive a weaponized version of the Heat Death? Stop. Just stop.

Lol. In that very same comic, Death literally mentions that Galactus is strong enough to eventually reform himself and the others as well subsequently. I am not sure what you're trying to prove here, that the very Abstract embodiment of death(who also happened to outperform multiple Celestials against Cancerverse) is required to keep Galactus in a dissipated form. Not to mention that this fail response has nothing to do with the Heat Death of the Universe anyways.

Edit: Double lolz at that. 😂 😂

You have yet to prove it was a Godblast that Team Thor used against the Trio (Galactus/Scrier/The OTher) in that Thor Annual. If/when you prove that, you have to prove it was MORE powerful than the Godblast Thor used against Exitar. The Godblast Thor used against Exitar SHATTERED a REINFORCED Mjolnir. Mjlonir survived the strain of that blast Team used against the Trio. Explain how out of all the Godblasts Thor has ever done on panel (even ASSUMING the did one with Rachel/Surfer), the only time A (REINFORCED) MJOLNIR was shattered was the one used against Exitar.

Regarding the entropy gun, I merely pointed out that according to Reed on panel, the reason why it was so effective is because the Rogues bleed energy. Well Galactus "bleeds" energy or blood too depending on the writer. So if that's the reason why it was so effective against the Celestials.........put two and two together. Even you can understand this.

The "Heat Death" garbage you brought up was just that garbage. Surviving till the end of a SINGLE universe isn't impressive when you compare it to beings that are MULTIVERSAL in scope. Understand?

Also that scan straight up says, Death would have claimed Galactus IF STRANGE'S aura wasn't stopping her. Read the entire issue, that point is made clear as day.

And I also gave you examples of Galactus getting his fat pulled from the fire MULTIPLE times. So IF he really does survive to the heat death of the universe (all this merely being IMPLIED), it's because other beings have already saved his ass and probably will save his ass again in the future.

The Celestials don't need anyone saving them. Even the "death" of one of their aspects in any given universe is meaningless since they exist simultaneously in ALL universes in the multiverse. Understand now?

Originally posted by zopzop
He tanked an ALTERNATE version of the UN. The 616 version of the UN was capable of destroying Abraxas and undoing the MULTIVERSAL level damage he wrecked. Show me proof that that alt reality UN was as powerful as the 616 version.

Originally posted by zopzop
Tiamut wasn't fighting 3 no names and an Eson. Tiamut was going up against the "mightiest" of the Celestials and HAD HIM ON HIS KNEES when the rest of the Second Host jumped in. Not four no names, NAMED Celestials jumped in after the "mightiest" of them was on his knees before Tiamut :

Originally posted by zopzop
You countered nothing and are just rambling at this point.

Originally posted by zopzop
You have yet to prove it was a Godblast that Team Thor used against the Trio (Galactus/Scrier/The OTher) in that Thor Annual. If/when you prove that, you have to prove it was MORE powerful than the Godblast Thor used against Exitar. The Godblast Thor used against Exitar SHATTERED a REINFORCED Mjolnir. Mjlonir survived the strain of that blast Team used against the Trio. Explain how out of all the Godblasts Thor has ever done on panel (even ASSUMING the did one with Rachel/Surfer), the only time A (REINFORCED) MJOLNIR was shattered was the one used against Exitar.

As far as the strength of the Exitar Godblast goes, do you want me to bring up our age old argument where you spammed nonsense for pages on regarding how the Juggernaut Godblast was equal to the Exitar Godblast in magnitude, simply because of narrative description? I don't want to invoke ODG's brutality and set you on a self-arguing/destroying path, but you're leaving me out of options here.

Originally posted by zopzop
Regarding the entropy gun, I merely pointed out that according to Reed on panel, the reason why it was so effective is because the Rogues bleed energy. Well Galactus "bleeds" energy or blood too depending on the writer. So if that's the reason why it was so effective against the Celestials.........put two and two together. Even you can understand this.

Originally posted by zopzop
The "Heat Death" garbage you brought up was just that garbage. Surviving till the end of a SINGLE universe isn't impressive when you compare it to beings that are MULTIVERSAL in scope. Understand?

Still stuck on that multiversal non-sequiter, I see.

Originally posted by zopzop
Also that scan straight up says, Death would have claimed Galactus IF STRANGE'S aura wasn't stopping her. Read the entire issue, that point is made clear as day.

And I also gave you examples of Galactus getting his fat pulled from the fire MULTIPLE times. So IF he really does survive to the heat death of the universe (all this merely being IMPLIED), it's because other beings have already saved his ass and probably will save his ass again in the future.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Celestials don't need anyone saving them. Even the "death" of one of their aspects in any given universe is meaningless since they exist simultaneously in ALL universes in the multiverse. Understand now?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Not sure what this supposed to prove. First of all, there is doubt over whether it was even an alternate UN or the 616 version given how it was last seen in Reed's hands coupled with the fact that Val has a tendency to mess with her dad's stuff. But for the sake of the argument, let's presume that it was an alternate UN. How exactly does the feat get diminished, when we have seen an alternate UN erase a whole reality on 2 different occasions(Korvac and the dying Eternity)?

Again with this bullsh1t. This mightiest of the 4th Host recently got dropped by an Asgardian enchanted axe, while it took a universal weapon to put down a random Mad Celestial. Those 4 "non-name alternate Rogues" had more feats in 2 or 3 issues than the 616-Celestials have had in decades, and the reason that you either ignore or outright lowball those instances is because you can't take the implications of such a notion.

Irony abounds.

616 Reality IG owned abstracts. Alt reality IG in Doom's hands shattered vs the Celestials. See the difference?

ON PANEL Arishem is outright STATED not IMPLIED to be the most powerful, the leader, the mightiest of the Celestials. By multiple writers throughout the years. I even provided the scans earlier in the thread. Tiamut beat that guy. Then he was jumped by the entire Second Host in a combined sneak attack.

4 Planet Amp Galactus had his hands full with three no names and an Eson.

It was a GB based on narrative description. It was being empowered by 2 other Heralds aas well, hence an amped GB. It failed to make a dent on Galactus, while a regular(albeit Thor's strongest) one destroyed Exitar's most durable body part. I am guessing you'll keep spamming this point on and on ad infinitum no matter how many times I address it.

As far as the strength of the Exitar Godblast goes, do you want me to bring up our age old argument where you spammed nonsense for pages on regarding how the Juggernaut Godblast was equal to the Exitar Godblast in magnitude, simply because of narrative description? I don't want to invoke ODG's brutality and set you on a self-arguing/destroying path, but you're leaving me out of options here.

So again. Prove that what Team Thor did vs the Cosimic Trio was a Godblast. Then we'll move on from there. Then answer why a reinforced Mjolnir was reduced to rubble when with the Exitarblast but just fine every other time he's used a GB.

And I countered that by bringing up what would happen to Galactus at the Heat Death of the Universe. I then specifically told you to google what the Heat Death means, because of it's close relation to Reed's Univeral Entropy weapon. You blatantly disregarded my advice and went on a stupid off-tangent blabbering(which I'll crush below) about the Celestials' multiversal nature(courtesy of Pak). I am not sure whether you have some neural impairments, or you're doing this to simply annoy me.

First of all, don't ever tell anyone that what they post on here is garbage, because the only garbage that has been flung about on this thread so far has been spouted by you. You're the same idiotguy who argued for pages on and on that Reed was omniscient, you're the same buffoonfellow who once argued that Thor can stalemate Mephisto in his own realm, you're the same dumbassdude who tried to argue that Odin>LT, you're the same retardperson who blindly went into ODG's bait thread and ended up arguing with yourself for 3 continuous pages and making a fool of yourself in the process.

Still stuck on that multiversal non-sequiter, I see.

More irrelevant crap. What does you bringing up the Abstract Embodiment of Death needing to keep Galactus in a dissipated state have to do with anything here, particularly when that same Abstract embodiment of Death outperformed nearly 2 dozen Celestials(616 at that) against Cancerverse.

Tell that to Tiamut who was drained and destroyed by an energy tick. Or Arishem who got killed by an Asgardian enchanted axe.

We have ON PANEL examples of Galactus bleeding energy. If you want I can provide them :
1) When he was bleeding/leaking energy as he was lying dead from eating the unkillable Elders
2) When Teneberous put him on his ass, he was bleeding energy from his side
3) When Odin headbutted him, he was leaking energy as his form was shattered and he was lying on the ground before he reformed himself.

So if the entropy gun was so effective because it's target bled energy................

*******And Reed is omniscient or at least has been portrayed as such on certain occasions. Need I remind you that it was Reed's mind that held the universe together when he and Alien Entity created 616 reality.

Bump