ROTS Obi Wan Kenobi Vs Mace Windu

Originally posted by Arhael
There was.

Originally posted by Arhael
Anakin's dominant emotion was rage, the emotion that empowers Force users by a lot consistently throughout EU. Better saber showing than against Dooku, also, supports it. During fight Anakin had no doubts, he was attacking non-stop to the point that he didn't care that Kenobi had higher ground.

Originally posted by Arhael
This farther proves my point:
Anakin roared and flew at him, using both the Force and his body to crash Obi-Wan back into the wall once more. His hands seized Obi-Wan's wrists with [b]impossible strength, forcing his arms wide. "I am so sick of your lectures!"

Dark power bore down with his grip.

Obi-Wan felt the bones of his forearms bending, beginning to feather toward the greenstick fractures that would come before the final breaks.

Oh, he thought. Oh, this is bad.

Hampered performance and impossible strength don't go along well. [/B]

Here's my evidence to the contrary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDSDPZN8zk
🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
No, there wasn't. You are literally the only person who believes Anakin's skill was "enormously" beyond Kenobi's on Mustafar.

Well a lot of people here feel Skywalker was the more powerful duelist.

But I think your too hooked on this "enormous" difference. He said the gap between 8 and 9 is enormous. He didn't say the gap between Skywalker and Kenobi was.

This is what he says about their fight in the Making of ROTS pg144:

"That toe-to-toe thing thing shows they can't get past each other's defenses, because they know each others moves so intimately."

The ROTS novel says pretty much the exact same thing:

Blade-to-blade they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior.

So Skywalker vs Kenobi was always going to be equal in skill. But with Kenobi having to give a lot of ground to make up for Skywalker's superior strength.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well a lot of people here feel Skywalker was the more powerful duelist.

But I think your too hooked on this "enormous" difference. He said the gap between 8 and 9 is enormous. He didn't say the gap between Skywalker and Kenobi was.

This is what he says about their fight in the Making of ROTS pg144:

"That toe-to-toe thing thing shows they can't get past each other's defenses, because they know each others moves so intimately."

The ROTS novel says pretty much the exact same thing:

Blade-to-blade they were identical. After thousands of hours in lightsaber sparring, they knew each other better than brothers, more intimately than lovers; they were complementary halves of a single warrior.

So yes, he DID say there was an enormous difference between Anakin and Kenobi--- which is a blatantly incorrect statement. Did Vader have more raw force power at his disposal? Sure. However, he clearly did not utilize the bulk of said power against Kenobi, otherwise it would've been a complete non-fight. Furthermore, the levels concept refers exclusively to saber skills-- and as the quotes you posted above blatantly state: they were EQUAL in that area(like I've been saying the entire time.) 🙂

The circumstances likely balanced out the ''enormous'' difference.

Something happened, as there was definitely not an enormous difference between them on Mustafar.

Personally, I think Gillard simply jumped the gun and didn't put much thought into that statement before he made it. /shrug

Originally posted by Galan007
Something happened, as there was definitely not an enormous difference between them on Mustafar.

Personally, I think Gillard simply jumped the gun and didn't put much thought into that statement before he made it. /shrug

Eh. I think that Kenobi may very well be a level 9 given his feats in TCWs. However I do have a hard time seeing him taking down people like Mace, Sidious, or Yoda. But the thing is that Level 9s like Dooku, Mace, Sidious, and Yoda repeatedly show dominance over people like Skywalker and Kenobi. Until the Clone Wars where we have Skywaker fighting on par with Dooku throughout the Clone Wars, and Kenobi taking on Savage and Maul, one of whom should be a level 8 the other a solid 6 or 7.

It could be argued the levels have been retconned.

Originally posted by Galan007

Personally, I think Gillard simply jumped the gun and didn't put much thought into that statement before he made it. /shrug

Yeah I'm saying don't put so much emphasis on that one word "enormous." It was likely just an overstatement. Especially considering he's said both Kenobi and Skywalker can't get past each other's defenses.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
It could be argued the levels have been retconned.

👆

I've been saying this for a while. That new canon material should take precedence over 8 year old quotes, even Lucas's own quotes. Seen as he's in charge of TCW and is known to constantly contradict his older quotes/material.

For instance saying only Mace or Yoda can compete with the Emperor was obviously retconned as soon as Skywalker overpowered the Son and Daughter. It can be argued that was a one off, but Lucas never said anything about "consistent" showings in his quote.

And guess who came up with the Mortis story idea? Yep, it was Lucas.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Until the Clone Wars where we have Skywaker fighting on par with Dooku throughout the Clone Wars, and Kenobi taking on Savage and Maul, one of whom should be a level 8 the other a solid 6 or 7.

Yeah Maul and Opress should be a solid 8 and 7 respectively. Kenobi's prowess likely has been retconned after the episode "Revival." Just like Vader's speed/saber prowess seems to have been retconned after new material like RODV and TFU.

He can overpower those two that can hold down Abeloth with whom Luke struggles with?

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He can overpower those two that can hold down Abeloth with whom Luke struggles with?

Well he's done it once. But then later in the same arc got easily overpowered by the Son alone.

I always assumed he went into Zone mode like when he slaughtered Dooku in RotS?

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
I always assumed he went into Zone mode like when he slaughtered Dooku in RotS?

Im not sure if it was the same thing. But if it was then ZonAkin is basically >>> everyone else in the mythos.

So is Zone Anakin=Anakin's potential possible?

Originally posted by Galan007
I'm just telling you what Gillard said. Per him, the difference between a level 8 and 9 is "enormous."

I've debunked this myth a few times. Dooku didn't start to weaken until Anakin tapped his Christ power and began attacking him with "the unstoppable power of a meteor strike." Each time Kenobi entered the fray, he was handled by Dooku effortlessly--- ie. he didn't help Anakin defeat Dooku whatsoever.

I can post the entire battle, if need be. 🙂

I agree it's not enormous so I'm not sure what else there is to say on that matter.

If you would like to post the entire fight.. go ahead. In reading the novel it says Dooku replenished himself with the force before he started dueling Anakin. However, he had to do so because fighting BOTH of them taxed him. Thus, even though he replenished before fighting Anakin.. he wouldn't have the force reserves he could've had he not have to take them both on before. Again, Dooku while gaining some power via the DS... we must also remember wasn't in his prime anymore. He was older than Kenobi in ANH. So he wasn't a spring chicken anymore. I also believe Nick said...Dooku underestimated Anakin which is another factor.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yeah I'm saying don't put so much emphasis on that one word "enormous." It was likely just an overstatement. Especially considering he's said both Kenobi and Skywalker can't get past each other's defenses.

I've been ove rthis Anakin was a emotional mess before and I just don't buy it.. There is too much that leads to the opposite opinion. The only emotion I saw Anakin showing was Rage when he was confronted by Kenobi. It just takes common sense to see that.. as well and paying attention to his words and actions. All of it point towards him being fueled by anger.. and as we've seen in the mythos.. Anger can lead one to become even more powerful and dangerous. Kenobi IMO beat the most powerful version of Anakin ever seen.

Also, I believe Kenobi was about a level 9 by ROTS... If not a 9 a elite top of the tier 8. However, being able to fight off Maul and Opress and not let a SINGLE strike hit him... is the work of somebody who improved a lot during the Clone Wars.. and I believe that improvement only continued during the ROTS period.

Anakin wasn't able to harness the rage, the rage was harnessing him, making him a mess.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Anakin wasn't able to harness the rage, the rage was harnessing him, making him a mess.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Anakin wasn't able to harness the rage, the rage was harnessing him, making him a mess.

Please cite the narration in the movie or novel that makes his rage work against him and not enhance him as it's almost always shown to do.

When did rage make one stronger? In TPM Maul used Kenobi's rage against him. Anakin in RotS. Maul using Dun Möch against Kenobi in the S4 final to get him enraged.