ROTS Obi Wan Kenobi Vs Mace Windu

The rage didn't work against him during his battle with maul. In fact, the rage he felt when he saw his master killed is exactly what had Maul on the defensive for the start of their battle. The same rage that put Vader on the defensive when Luke go enraged. The emotions that Mace used against Sidious.. he was many things including angry when he realized that he was the last hope of the republic when he fought against Sids. Maul got a rage boost against Sids... THere are a number of examples of this.

Don't even count the Maul vs Sidious fight pre-TPM. Maul was already weakened so much that he was going to get stronger no matter what.

''The battle wore on, and for a time it was fought evenly. But Darth Maul was the stronger of the two and was driven by a frenzy that surpassed even the frantic determination that fueled Obi-Wan. Eventually, the Sith Lord began to wear the young Jedi down. Bit by bit, he pressed him back, carrying the attack to him, looking to catch him off guard. Obi-Wan could sense his body weakening, and his fear of what it would mean if he, too, were to fall, began to grow.''

What are you talking about? Kenobi got an initial rage boost when he went solo on maul. Maul eventually weathered the storm and started to take control.. but that doesn't change the boost Kenobi initially got.. nor does it change all the other situations where this has occured.

He couldn't control the rage boost he got, just like Anakin. Yes, Kenobi got enhanced for a while. But the same power fueled Maul, making him more powerful as well.

WHO CARES.. you wanted examples of rage boosts and I gave them to you.. numerous examples through the mythos shows a boost in rage can and has meant a boost in performance.. ESPECIALLY for Sith. Point is, Anakin wasn't weaker when battling Kenobi.. in fact he was stronger and more deadly.

You gave no good examples.

1) Vader held back unless you actually think enraged RotJ Luke > RotJ Vader

2) In Mace's case he was able to harness the rage since that is the point of the superconducting loop/Vaapad.

3) It made him weaker. Anakin as of CW has put Dooku on his ass twice (albeit very even fights). That's better than Obi-Wan slicing defending himself from the brothers.

Then there are two quotes stating he is arguably the most powerful Jedi as of RotS. Better than

B.S. all the examples I gave are clear aod concise on the matter. Even sids says numerous times.. once Anakin gives into his rage and fear.. he'll become more powerful than any sith or Jedi. He says this numerous times. That is EXACTLY what he did and we saw and enraged Anakin attacking Kenobi full force. Not a depressed...guilt ridden one that people are claiming. There was NO sign of that when Kenobi arrived. All that we did see wwa an angry.. arrogant.. hungry for powre and domination Anakin. not some sniffing cry baby like people are making out.

It doesn't matter if Vader was holding back.. he was holding back the entire fight yet STILL winning. When Luke got his rage boost he turned the fight and dominated. PERIOD. Kenobi was geting the better of maul thanks to the rage boost. Mace got stronger thanks to the rage boost. Shit it was even shown what Yoda could do if he gave into rage.. fear... and turned to a sith.. Rage, more times than not, has been shown to increase performance of both Jedi and especially Sith. Shit Bane has done that very thing numerous times. Maul showed that against Sidious when he got his rage boost.. Savage as well. There are so many examples it's ming boggling you're arguing that rage does nothing but mess a perosn up mentally. :facepalm:

Really?

''Skywalker leapt for him again, and this time Dooku met the boy's charge easily. They stood nearly toe-to-toe, blades flashing faster than the eye could see, but Skywalker had lost his edge: a simple taunt was all that had been required to shift the focus of his attention from winning the fight to controlling his own emotions. The angrier he got, the more afraid he became, and the fear fed his anger in turn; like the proverbial Corellian multipede, now that he had started thinking about what he was doing, he could no longer walk.''

That was your counter? Really? Concession accepted then

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
That was your counter? Really? Concession accepted then

His quote shows that if Skywalker's attention shifts to controlling his emotions then his performance will be hindered.

which is nothing of what I'm claiming and means nothing. Sith Anakin that fought Kenobi WASN'T trying to control his emotions.... neither were any of the examples I gave with angery making them stronger... So his examples was utterly useless.. but what I would expect from him.

Regardless, Windu bro rapes Kenobi.

Not controlling his emotions?! A simple taunt was all that was required by Dooku. You don't think that choking his own wife, slaughtering younglings, watching as Mace flew out the window?!

''He would not mourn for the lives he had taken. But for the loss of his former self, the boy who had dreamed of becoming a Jedi, he was unable to hold back the tears that streamed down his cheeks.''

Hell, he wasn't even able to sense Kenobi because of his rage;

''Despite his powers and years of attunement to Obi-Wan, his rage had blocked his ability to sense his former Master's presence on Mustafar until he saw the Jedi standing in the hatch of Padme's star ship.''

There. Two sources showing he had a hard time dealing with emotions and that it hindered him.

Come back when you find a source that says the opposite.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
Regardless, Windu bro rapes Kenobi.

Originally posted by Jedi Mom
Not controlling his emotions?! A simple taunt was all that was required by Dooku. You don't think that choking his own wife, slaughtering younglings, watching as Mace flew out the window?!

''He would not mourn for the lives he had taken. But for the loss of his former self, the boy who had dreamed of becoming a Jedi, he was unable to hold back the tears that streamed down his cheeks.''

Hell, he wasn't even able to sense Kenobi because of his rage;

''Despite his powers and years of attunement to Obi-Wan, his rage had blocked his ability to sense his former Master's presence on Mustafar until he saw the Jedi standing in the hatch of Padme's star ship.''

There. Two sources showing he had a hard time dealing with emotions and that it hindered him.

Come back when you find a source that says the opposite.

Where are those 2 sources from?

Originally posted by Vensai
Give Kenobi more credit. It won't be a stomp.

Kenobi would give him hell in a pure sword fight, but in an all out I'm sure it won't be too difficult for Mace to own him via TK.

The Rise and Fall of Darth Vader, a novel showing the movies from Anakin's point of view.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Darth_Vader

Originally posted by Galan007
No, there wasn't. You are literally the only person who believes Anakin's skill was "enormously" beyond Kenobi's on Mustafar.

Yes, lets ignore the fact that Lucas himself flat-out told us Anakin was remorseful, conflicted, guilty, doubtful, etc. just before he battled Kenobi. Lets also ignore the fact that it was never so much as hinted at that those emotions weren't still present when they fought. Lets also ignore the fact that those emotions have never, in the history of the Jedi/Sith orders, done anything but hinder a force-user's abilities. 👆

Emotions you mentioned make character hesitate and be unwilling to fight. Anakin on opposite wanted to kill Kenobi and tried his hardest.

The fight and narration showed that during fight rage was the dominant emotion. If you think there was other emotions during actual fight, that's for you to prove.

You provide an excerpt in which Vader uses Kung-Fu-Grip as evidence that his force power(TK) was superior to Kenobi's? Lol?

In any case you want TK example? Here it is:
A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill.

Here's my evidence to the contrary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DDSDPZN8zk
🙂

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
I've been ove this Anakin was a emotional mess before and I just don't buy it.. There is too much that leads to the opposite opinion. The only emotion I saw Anakin showing was Rage when he was confronted by Kenobi. It just takes common sense to see that.. as well and paying attention to his words and actions. All of it point towards him being fueled by anger.. and as we've seen in the mythos.. Anger can lead one to become even more powerful and dangerous. Kenobi IMO beat the most powerful version of Anakin ever seen.

Also, I believe Kenobi was about a level 9 by ROTS... If not a 9 a elite top of the tier 8. However, being able to fight off Maul and Opress and not let a SINGLE strike hit him... is the work of somebody who improved a lot during the Clone Wars.. and I believe that improvement only continued during the ROTS period.

This thread is about Windu and I can give good reason why Windu would win Kenobi in the same RotS scenario.

In Anakin's showings I noticed one consistency. Whenever he gets angry, he turns his sole focus on opponent disregarding surroundings and simply keeps attacking in straight line.

In one encounter with Dooku, when 4 magnaguards were attacking him, Dooku turned his back. This taunt was enough for Anakin do disregard those droids and try to strike Dooku down. Wise combatant would try to destroy droids first or retreat.

In next encounter Dooku was throwing objects at him. Anakin didn't even try to counter it with his own TK or simply dodge, he just tanked everything.

In RotS Anakin ran at Kenobi even without lightsaber. First time it worked and he disarmed Kenobi, second - he got kick in the face and nearly lost the fight early on.

So basically angry Anakin gains combat prowess but doesn't try to outwit opponent at all.

Windu would pay attention to surroundings and corner Kenobi. And with no space to retreat Kenobi wouldn't last long. And, if there is situation, when Kenobi has higher ground, obviously, Windu would find safer way to level it up.

Kenobi succeed against Anakin because he let go, he had the intention of killing Anakin unlike Jedi normally do.

Originally posted by Arhael
Not skill, combat prowess. Kenobi was able to survive by constantly giving ground. Had he fought offensively or got cornered, Anakin would have made short work of him.

enor·mous
marked by extraordinarily great size, number, or degree; especially : exceeding usual bounds or accepted notions.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/enormous

Originally posted by Arhael
Emotions you mentioned make character hesitate and be unwilling to fight.

Doubt/conflict/remorse/guilt continuously gnaw away at force users-- not unlike a cancer. This has always been the case throughout any SW media.

Originally posted by Arhael
It is evidence that he was tremendously empowered. "Impossible strength" requires heavy drawing on the Force. If his performance was hindered, he wouldn't have that strength. Add to the fact that Kenobi could counter strength of Maul and Opress simultaneously, so Anakin nearly breaking his wrists is truly big feat.

"The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike."

"Now, as for Skywalker- Which was as far as Dooku got, because by the time his attention returned to the younger Jedi, his vision was rather completely obstructed by the sole of a boot approaching his face with something resembling terminal velocity."

"There was a thermonuclear furnace where his heart should be, and it was burning through the firewalls of his Jedi training."

Etc.

Originally posted by Arhael
In any case you want TK example? Here it is:
A roar of the Force blasted Obi-Wan back into a wall, smashing breath from his lungs, leaving him swaying, half stunned. Anakin stepped over bodies and lifted his blade for the kill.

Example: Cin Drallig soaked one of Anakin's TK attacks, and proceeded to forcibly throw him out of a window:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfW4vK-Fu1A
(3:15)
^^That's the kind of evidence you need to provide if you want me to believe that Vader's TK was ">>>" Kenobi's.

Originally posted by Arhael
LOL

That scene explicitly shows us that, when Vader/Kenobi launch TK attacks simultaneously, they are equal. If Anakin's force power was intended to be superior, he would have gained some sort of ground during that scene-- but that wasn't the case. Ergo: Vader=Kenobi.

Originally posted by Galan007

Yet another example that doesn't prove your point. We already knew Anakin/Vader could force push. That quote, however, says nothing of Vader's ability to outdo Kenobi in a force vs. force scenario. Hell, if Vader weren't attempting to defend, Kenobi could bash him against a wall with the force as well.

In that case how do we know Dooku > Kenobi with the Force? Let's face it Kenobi never countered Dooku's TK attacks with the Force.