CIS-Less Surfer Assault

Superman ignores anything Surfer dishes out and oneshot kills him.

How does he get past Savage Hulk, when BFR is not an option? Am interested in what his fans have to say. Honest question here as I've seen many arguments that Hulk just 'powers through ' attacks.

People will say that Surfer depowers him by draining him. I think Surfer did this a couple of times before

It's weird when you put it that way, because Superman also has his draining feats (Mageddon, for example). But no Marvel fan would ever dare claim he wins a forum battle by draining Surfer or Hulk, for example.

Correct
But personally I think those instances with Surfer draining Hulk was PIS. Surfer had to touch Hulk in order to do that. In a real battle Hulk is not letting anyone touch him outside a strike. The drain wasn't instant either. Hulk could have swatted Surfer away and gained his energy back.

Surfer doesn't need to drain to win even though it'll work.

Originally posted by h1a8
Correct
But personally I think those instances with Surfer draining Hulk was PIS. Surfer had to touch Hulk in order to do that. In a real battle Hulk is not letting anyone touch him outside a strike. The drain wasn't instant either. Hulk could have swatted Surfer away and gained his energy back.

Huh? The Surfer is Hulk's Kryptonite.

Originally posted by carver9
Surfer doesn't need to drain to win even though it'll work.

Think Carv.

What other ways can Surfer beat Hulk?

Originally posted by Stoic
Huh? The Surfer is Hulk's Kryptonite.

Not in a forum fight as I explained. Please don't ignore my explanation to why he isn't.

Originally posted by h1a8
So in a forum fight Hulk is going to be stupid and allowed Surfer to grab his arm and start draining him?
Hulk won't even try to strike him the moment Surfer is within arms reach? Hulk won't even try to strike Surfer if Surfer somehow miraculously puts his hand on Hulk starting the drain?

Think Carv.

What other ways can Surfer beat Hulk?

I never said Surfer would beat Hulk via draining him because as of late, Hulk had been able to absorb all energy, including cosmic energy. Surfer could bfr Hulk, it's just that simple. Hulk might be more powerful but Surfer opening up a black hole right up under him is a huge possibility.

Originally posted by Stoic
Huh? The Surfer is Hulk's Kryptonite.

I wouldn't say that, but Surfer can win this.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said Surfer would beat Hulk via draining him because as of late, Hulk had been able to absorb all energy, including cosmic energy. Surfer could bfr Hulk, it's just that simple. Hulk might be more powerful but Surfer opening up a black hole right up under him is a huge possibility.

Originally posted by carver9
I never said Surfer would beat Hulk via draining him because as of late, Hulk had been able to absorb all energy, including cosmic energy. Surfer could bfr Hulk, it's just that simple. Hulk might be more powerful but Surfer opening up a black hole right up under him is a huge possibility.

Surfer would never think of that.
Or I would say the chances Surfer would think of that is 1/1000

Now don't get me wrong. If this is member controlled Surfer then we would have a good chance of beating Hulk. I have a for sure strategy to win. But Surfer himself might not think of it.

Originally posted by h1a8
Surfer would never think of that.
Or I would say the chances Surfer would think of that is 1/1000

Now don't get me wrong. If this is member controlled Surfer then we would have a good chance of beating Hulk. I have a for sure strategy to win. But Surfer himself might not think of it.

Lol... isn't that how KMC debate, member controlled. Surfer doesn't throw out planet busting power in combat, Superman doesn't blitz people in nano seconds becoming this untouchable character, Hull doesn't thunder clap consistently or energy drain in every fight. KMC debates primarily off of powerset, been like that for years. With that said, my point still stands. Surfer could shrink to the size of an atom and enter each of the people he's fighting and kill them from the inside out. Or just creat clones of himself to destroy them.

You think that would kill Hulk?

Originally posted by carver9
Lol... isn't that how KMC debate, member controlled. Surfer doesn't throw out planet busting power in combat, Superman doesn't blitz people in nano seconds becoming this untouchable character, Hull doesn't thunder clap consistently or energy drain in every fight. KMC debates primarily off of powerset, been like that for years. With that said, my point still stands. Surfer could shrink to the size of an atom and enter each of the people he's fighting and kill them from the inside out. Or just creat clones of himself to destroy them.

To Carver, a character using their barest minimum to avoid getting hit (something every man, woman, even children and animals, hell even insects would do) is too farfetched a concept for him.

Correct! He thinks that seeing a punch/attack in slow motion and deciding to avoid it takes the same creativity as shrinking to the size of an atom midfight or choosing to open up black holes around someone.

He doesn't know the difference between common sense actions (any reasonable person would do) and exotic actions (only a rare few people can even think of).

Originally posted by h1a8
Correct! He thinks that seeing a punch/attack in slow motion and deciding to avoid it takes the same creativity as shrinking to the size of an atom midfight or choosing to open up black holes around someone.

He doesn't know the difference between common sense actions (any reasonable person would do) and exotic actions (only a rare few people can even think of).

Why wouldn't it take the same creativity when Surfer power cosmic and awareness assist with him calculating his versatility? If we are going to ignore comics for one character, we need to do it for all. That's still debating powerset. Surfer uses his versatility far more than Superman becoming untouchable in combat. FAR more.

Originally posted by carver9
Why wouldn't it take the same creativity when Surfer power cosmic and awareness assist with him calculating his versatility? If we are going to ignore comics for one character, we need to do it for all. That's still debating powerset. Surfer uses his versatility far more than Superman becoming untouchable in combat. FAR more.

But that's the wrong analogy, surely?

You need to be comparing him using his Cosmic awareness in battle with Superman using his speed in battle .

And then, you need to showcase Surfer's speed of thought to use it in battle. You could give me a Swiss Army Knife, I'd still be slower than Tyson with a handgun.

But that's by the by. I note that the Surfer Vs Hulk battle still isn't answered - BFR is off here, Surfer has to kill and/or incapacitate here.

Carver, how does he kill/incapacitate Hulk before Hulk just powers through?