Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
doesn't "cis off" mean that if a character CAN do it, they WILL do it?
Not quite.
Let's use Superman as an example. Does CIS off Superman mean he flies over at hypersonic speed and chews his opponents face off and eats it - at superspeed - in front of them? I wager no
If we were in charge then yeah an argument can be made for that tactic. I've read Stilts fanfic.
CIS off Superman still fights in character.
Originally posted by carver9
Why wouldn't it take the same creativity when Surfer power cosmic and awareness assist with him calculating his versatility? If we are going to ignore comics for one character, we need to do it for all. That's still debating powerset. Surfer uses his versatility far more than Superman becoming untouchable in combat. FAR more.
Us humans can do a billion different things. Doesnt mean we can think of such things on the fly. Doesn't mean Joe will decide to do what Tom decided in the same situation.
Look at a game of chess where there can be many different options to choose from. Each person will operate their options differently by playing different moves (unless the move is forced).
Avoiding an attack is forced and doesn't take any creativity or propensity.
Doing the things you have Surfer doing takes Carver thinking. Many members wouldn't have thought of that or decided to do that (even if they thought of it), especially Surfer.
This problem can be easily fixed though. Just create a thread called Member controlled Surfer vs whoever. Member controlled Surfer gets all the powers, skills, knowledge, and abilities of Surfer and decides what they would do.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
doesn't "cis off" mean that if a character CAN do it, they WILL do it?
No because a character can't do a million things simultaneously.
Either he does A or B.
Tom will make him do A and Bill will make him do B.
But he can't do both A and B.
Member controlled Surfer should be the description in the OP
Originally posted by DarkSaint85but what's the point of character induced stupidity being turned off..... if they still fight in character?
Not quite.Let's use Superman as an example. Does CIS off Superman mean he flies over at hypersonic speed and chews his opponents face off and eats it - at superspeed - in front of them? I wager no
If we were in charge then yeah an argument can be made for that tactic. I've read Stilts fanfic.
CIS off Superman still fights in character.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but what's the point of character induced stupidity being turned off..... if they still fight in character?
It's for characters who are genuinely that's stupid - like Rhino.
As the rules say:
It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.
And:
What this means is that people like the Surfer and Superman and so on will not use the full extent of their powers if it will endanger civilians. It doesn't, though, mean they will fight like idiots.
People then turned it into 'This is what Surfer/Superman should do, this is how they should fight, according to me'.
Edit: it was never meant to be applied to characters like Supes or Surfer. CIP was there for civilians and their safety, CIS was there for stupid characters. Not 'I've drafted Surfer for a BZ, and he opens the match by doing 1,001 things'.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
not trying to be difficult, but i genuinely don't understand the distinction.if surfer is fighting absent of "character induced stupidity" (cis), then he is no longer, by definition, fighting "in character". so why wouldn't he start throwing black holes around and whatnot?
Because your assumption then is that the only reason why he doesn't throw black holes around willy-nilly is because he doesn't think of it, that he's genuinely that stupid.
Your assumption assumes that Surfer's character is that of stupidity. Absent of that, he suddenly becomes Midnighter/Constantine in the application of his powers, and becomes an utter bastard.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but what's the point of character induced stupidity being turned off..... if they still fight in character?
Characters sometimes do stupid things because of they are genuinely that stupid.
If a character does something stupid but they aren't really that stupid then it's called PIS. For example, Thor will choose to fight like a warrior and throw his hammer or use it as a melee item over 80% of the time.
With CIS off Thor is more inclined to fight more intelligently but still within the scope of his creativity (not ours).
Superman would be more willing to let loose and not hold back as another example.
My take is if a character has done it before midbattle in a comic then it is fair game in a forum (with CIS off especially). But if they never done it in a comic then we will be hard pressed to prove they will think of such tactics in a forum fight.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
not trying to be difficult, but i genuinely don't understand the distinction.if surfer is fighting absent of "character induced stupidity" (cis), then he is no longer, by definition, fighting "in character". so why wouldn't he start throwing black holes around and whatnot?
This. It doesn't make any sense. What you turn cis off how does he still fight in character?
On top of that all these characters have been written by hundreds of different riders who've all had them acting in different fashion at some point. So who's decide what their actual character is? You can go through multiple surfer comics and find him different acting different ways.
Originally posted by h1a8
The power cosmic doesn't tell you what to do Carv when there are millions of different options available. Surfer still has to think of it and then decide if he wants to do it or not.Us humans can do a billion different things. Doesnt mean we can think of such things on the fly. Doesn't mean Joe will decide to do what Tom decided in the same situation.
Look at a game of chess where there can be many different options to choose from. Each person will operate their options differently by playing different moves (unless the move is forced).
Avoiding an attack is forced and doesn't take any creativity or propensity.
Doing the things you have Surfer doing takes Carver thinking. Many members wouldn't have thought of that or decided to do that (even if they thought of it), especially Surfer.This problem can be easily fixed though. Just create a thread called Member controlled Surfer vs whoever. Member controlled Surfer gets all the powers, skills, knowledge, and abilities of Surfer and decides what they would do.
Sigh... Silver Surfer flies light years in seconds and while flying, his eyes focused on billions of stars, and his mind calculated every last one of those stars that he visually saw during his flight (that lasted seconds mind you). The stars pinpointed a map that not only was he able to see, but he did all of this FAR faster than light, while visually looking at billions of stars while flying at those speeds.
Are you really going to tell me that a guy that process things at this speed can't think of the simple things I'm mentioning? He blitz everyone here and enter their brains at the size of an atom and opens up a black hole.
Originally posted by ShadowFyre
This. It doesn't make any sense. What you turn cis off how does he still fight in character?
On top of that all these characters have been written by hundreds of different riders who've all had them acting in different fashion at some point. So who's decide what their actual character is? You can go through multiple surfer comics and find him different acting different ways.
Superman without CIS isn't going to fly over and bite his opponents face off. Flash isn't going to sodomize his opponent at light speed.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85but we know he CAN open up black holes for example, because he HAS done that on panel. so why wouldn't he choose to do that in a battle where cis is off?
Because your assumption then is that the only reason why he doesn't throw black holes around willy-nilly is because he doesn't think of it, that he's genuinely that stupid.Your assumption assumes that Surfer's character is that of stupidity. Absent of that, he suddenly becomes Midnighter/Constantine in the application of his powers, and becomes an utter bastard.
Originally posted by carver9
Sigh... Silver Surfer flows light years in seconds and while flying, his eyes focused on billions of stars, and his mind calculated every last one of those stars that he visually saw during his flight (that lasted seconds mind you). The stars pinpointed a map that not only was he able to see, but he did all of this FAR faster than light, while visually looking at billions of stars while flying at those speeds.Are you really going to tell me that a guy that process things at this speed can't think of the simple things I'm mentioning? He blitz everyone here and enter their brains at the size of an atom and opens up a black hole.
He can process when and where a wormhole will open up and where it will take him in a matter of seconds.
Humans can process 11 million bits of information per second.
Things we do naturally, almost without thinking, takes much processing power.
Yet we still can't think of more than a few things in midbattle.
How does that make him think about something that only we can think of? How does that make him choose what we want him to do. Another member, like me, will have Surfer do something totally different. He can't choose both what I want and what you want at the same time.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but we know he CAN open up black holes for example, because he HAS done that on panel. so why wouldn't he choose to do that in a battle where cis is off?
Because there are many other options. Why would he choose that option over others? He thought of that due to specific circumstances (to help someone or it happened by accident). Why would he even think of that option in a fight?
It takes 2 steps
1. Think of the option
2. Decide to do it over other options.
If you can prove those two things then you are in business
Originally posted by h1a8
He can process when and where a wormhole will open up and where it will take him in a matter of seconds.
Humans can process 11 million bits of information per second.
Things we do naturally, almost without thinking, takes much processing power.
Yet we still can't think of more than a few things in midbattle.How does that make him think about something that only we can think of? How does that make him choose what we want him to do. Another member, like me, will have Surfer do something totally different. He can't choose both what I want and what you want at the same time.
But he can though. It's crazy that you're comparing Surfer to humans. This is a guy who's cosmic awareness allowed him to comprehend the rules of the Universe in mere seconds...
But yet, you want to compare his thought process to that of a human.
Anyways, Surfer will know what each of these characters powers are as soon as the bell ring...
Surfer detects the abilities of a being that isn't even by him...
Can determine the nature of that energy and where it comes from...
Sense the energy type and where it's coming from...
Sense the type of energy the fantastic four is emitting...
Hr can even see psionic energy...
He will not have any issues detecting any of these being energy source, and won't have any issues capitalizing on that energy source, AND he will be fast enough to do it.
Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
but we know he CAN open up black holes for example, because he HAS done that on panel. so why wouldn't he choose to do that in a battle where cis is off?
Again, your argument (or statement) assumes the only reason why Surfer doesn't open black holes in his opponents' heads is because he is stupid. Not because he doesn't want to hurt or kill or whatever, if because he prefers to blast, whatever.
So if say, Thanos (or Reed or anyone) was next to Surfer and told him 'Surfer, open a black hole in Nova's head' Surfer would go 'yes, that's a great idea, thanks for telling me' and would immediately do it.
Originally posted by carver9
But he can though. It's crazy that you're comparing Surfer to humans. This is a guy who's cosmic awareness allowed him to comprehend the rules of the Universe in mere seconds...But yet, you want to compare his thought process to that of a human.
Anyways, Surfer will know what each of these characters powers are as soon as the bell ring...
Surfer detects the abilities of a being that isn't even by him...
Can determine the nature of that energy and where it comes from...
Sense the energy type and where it's coming from...
Sense the type of energy the fantastic four is emitting...
Hr can even see psionic energy...
He will not have any issues detecting any of these being energy source, and won't have any issues capitalizing on that energy source, AND he will be fast enough to do it.
Of course.
You are changing the goalposts.
If Surfer has done something in a comic (sense someone) the he can certainly do it here.
My point is that if he has 100 different options then who is to say that he will choose what You want him to do and not what Bob or Me wants him to do?
You have to prove BOTH
1. He will think of it
2. He will choose to do it vs other options
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Again, your argument (or statement) assumes the only reason why Surfer doesn't open black holes in his opponents' heads is because he is stupid. Not because he doesn't want to hurt or kill or whatever, if because he prefers to blast, whatever.So if say, Thanos (or Reed or anyone) was next to Surfer and told him 'Surfer, open a black hole in Nova's head' Surfer would go 'yes, that's a great idea, thanks for telling me' and would immediately do it.
Lol good one