CIS-Less Surfer Assault

Originally posted by h1a8
Of course.
You are changing the goalposts.

If Surfer has done something in a comic (sense someone) the he can certainly do it here.

My point is that if he has 100 different options then who is to say that he will choose what You want him to do and not what Bob or Me wants him to do?

You have to prove BOTH
1. He will think of it
2. He will choose to do it vs other options

Isn't this the point of the debate though? We tell how a character will beat another character and show that this character is capable of doing those things? All I need to do is prove that Surfer is capable of doing what I've mentioned and we both agree that he is capable of doing it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Again, your argument (or statement) assumes the only reason why Surfer doesn't open black holes in his opponents' heads is because he is stupid. Not because he doesn't want to hurt or kill or whatever, if because he prefers to blast, whatever.

So if say, Thanos (or Reed or anyone) was next to Surfer and told him 'Surfer, open a black hole in Nova's head' Surfer would go 'yes, that's a great idea, thanks for telling me' and would immediately do it.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
i kind of see what you're saying, but in that case what's the point of cis even being removed for a guy like surfer then?

That's the exact point.

There isn't, not really. It's why posters like myself always laugh at those who turn it into some kind of BZ Respect thread style scan dump. It completely ignores character, which entails actually knowing about the character's....well, character.

Spider-Man doesn't kill, for example. CIS-off doesn't mean he's suddenly going to punch his opponents' hearts out.

Batman, in character, doesn't use guns (generally - he made an exception for Darkseid for example, but generally). A CIS -off Batman isn't going to show up with a pair of Berettas.

If the only barrier to Surfer throwing black holes is his stupidity, then sure, black hole away.

But it isn't. If he was given a sheet of paper with 'do a barrel roll and then throw a black hole into his head', he's still not doing it.

Let's also add that Surfer can see the past, present, and the future.

https://imgur.com/Fx4vNV9

https://imgur.com/z8Vlm74

He should be more than capable of seeing how a battle will turn out if he took a certain approach.

Originally posted by carver9
Isn't this the point of the debate though? We tell how a character will beat another character and show that this character is capable of doing those things? All I need to do is prove that Surfer is capable of doing what I've mentioned and we both agree that he is capable of doing it.

It ALL comes down to the CHARACTER, not the POWERSET.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
From the rules:

Hope you remember those rules every time that your team forgets

Originally posted by Stoic
Hope you remember those rules every time that your team forgets

I always have CIS on for myself

So how does he get past Hulk? BFR is off.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
That's the exact point.

There isn't, not really. It's why posters like myself always laugh at those who turn it into some kind of BZ Respect thread style scan dump. It completely ignores character, which entails actually knowing about the character's....well, character.

Spider-Man doesn't kill, for example. CIS-off doesn't mean he's suddenly going to punch his opponents' hearts out.

Batman, in character, doesn't use guns (generally - he made an exception for Darkseid for example, but generally). A CIS -off Batman isn't going to show up with a pair of Berettas.

If the only barrier to Surfer throwing black holes is his stupidity, then sure, black hole away.

But it isn't. If he was given a sheet of paper with 'do a barrel roll and then throw a black hole into his head', he's still not doing it.

again not trying to be difficult, just trying to get a better understanding of this concept because i apparently had it wrong.

Originally posted by carver9
Isn't this the point of the debate though? We tell how a character will beat another character and show that this character is capable of doing those things? All I need to do is prove that Surfer is capable of doing what I've mentioned and we both agree that he is capable of doing it.

That's for member controlled characters (arguing pure powerset). Which have their own thread.
Will Superman go around stabbing enemies with his hard penis at superspeed? You know he has that ability right?

There is a fine line to what a character can and won't do.

You are basically saying that since you don't know what that line is then anything goes.

Well in that case just create a thread that allows anything goes (member controlled characters).

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so why is "cis off" even a thing then? if characters are always going to fight in character no matter what, then when would cis even apply to a forum battle anyway?

again not trying to be difficult, just trying to get a better understanding of this concept because i apparently had it wrong.

CiS off allows characters to remove limitations THEY PURPOSELY PUT ON THEMSELVES. For example, Superman doesn't kill. He will not be trying to vaporize his opponent at the start of the fight. Thor limits himself to melee. Cap throws his shield at powerful opponents leaving himself vulnerable, etc.

CIS off the Surfer would blast at full power. He would be open to do things he would be normally against but still within his creativity and personality.

Now we can change CIS off to mean Member controlled characters. I have no problem with that. But we must all be in agreement

Originally posted by h1a8
That's for member controlled characters (arguing pure powerset). Which have their own thread.
Will Superman go around stabbing enemies with his hard penis at superspeed? You know he has that ability right?

There is a fine line to what a character can and won't do.

You are basically saying that since you don't know what that line is then anything goes.

Well in that case just create a thread that allows anything goes (member controlled characters).

You're known for mentioning Doomsday using his bones to shoot into people even though Doonsday doesn't think, and it was a showing that was only done once. 🤔

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so why is "cis off" even a thing then? if characters are always going to fight in character no matter what, then when would cis even apply to a forum battle anyway?

again not trying to be difficult, just trying to get a better understanding of this concept because i apparently had it wrong.

It's for people who are genuinely that stupid, but that's it.

If stupidity is the only reason Character A doesn't do something, then CIS-off versions wil do that. If, however, it's not, and there are other reasons/factors why they don't do it, then a CIS-off version still wouldn't do it.

Originally posted by carver9
You're known for mentioning Doomsday using his bones to shoot into people even though Doonsday doesn't think, and it was a showing that was only done once. 🤔

Actually Doomsday DOES think. Re-read DoS and Hunter/Prey, lmao.

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
so why is "cis off" even a thing then? if characters are always going to fight in character no matter what, then when would cis even apply to a forum battle anyway?

again not trying to be difficult, just trying to get a better understanding of this concept because i apparently had it wrong.

As others have mentioned: the CIS Rule honestly might not even apply to the majority of characters anyway. It was initially put in place for characters who have a proclivity for doing...well...absolutely stupid shit in battle. For example: the villain who decisively beats their opponent, but instead of killing them, they start randomly jobbing, which gives the hero enough time to escape/win. If CIS were removed, the villain in question wouldn't do that kind of thing in a forum battle -- this is just a rudimentary example, but hopefully you get the point.

As far as tactics are concerned, lets use Superman as another example:
Even with CIS off, he's still probably not going to insta-blitz his opponent, rip their arms off, and shove them up their ass immediately at the onset... Because even when Superman isn't acting "stupid", he is still fighting in character. As such, he doesn't routinely use those kind of tactics to win a battle.

However, if you were to add something like "bloodlusted", "all-out", "morals off", etc. to the thread stipulations, then a character's tactics may very well change in that respect... But that has nothing to do with the concept of CIS, as a character who is fighting "all-out" or "bloodlusted" is no longer obligated to fight "in character".

Originally posted by Galan007
Not the first time this has come up. A lot of people over the years have assumed that "CIS-off" automatically brings a character up to their hyper-esoteric, "Tourney-levels" of power/versatility, and that they can do absolutely anything you can imagine... But that is not how CIS generally works.

As others have mentioned: the CIS Rule honestly might not even apply to the majority of characters anyway. It was initially put in place for characters who have a proclivity for doing...well...absolutely stupid shit in battle. For example: the villain who decisively beats their opponent, but instead of killing them, they start randomly jobbing, which gives the hero enough time to escape/win. If CIS were removed, the villain in question wouldn't do that kind of thing in a forum battle -- this is just a rudimentary example, but hopefully you get the point.

As far as tactics are concerned, lets use Superman as another example:
Even with CIS off, he's still probably not going to insta-blitz his opponent, rip their arms off, and shove them up their ass immediately at the onset... Because even when Superman isn't acting "stupid", he is still fighting in character. As such, he doesn't routinely use those kind of tactics to win a battle.

However, if you were to add something like "bloodlusted", "all-out", "morals off", etc. to the thread stipulations, then a character's tactics may very well change in that respect... But that has nothing to do with the concept of CIS, as a character who is fighting "all-out" or "bloodlusted" is no longer obligated to fight "in character".

👆

Surfer is bloodlusted in this thread, anyway. Which is why I am wondering how he deals with Hulk when trying to kill/incapacitate him, especially after what we've learnt with the Green Door and his performance against TOBA etc.

Originally posted by Galan007
Not the first time this has come up. A lot of people over the years have assumed that "CIS-off" automatically brings a character up to their hyper-esoteric, "Tourney-levels" of power/versatility, and that they can do absolutely anything you can imagine... But that is not how CIS generally works.

As others have mentioned: the CIS Rule honestly might not even apply to the majority of characters anyway. It was initially put in place for characters who have a proclivity for doing...well...absolutely stupid shit in battle. For example: the villain who decisively beats their opponent, but instead of killing them, they start randomly jobbing, which gives the hero enough time to escape/win. If CIS were removed, the villain in question wouldn't do that kind of thing in a forum battle -- this is just a rudimentary example, but hopefully you get the point.

As far as tactics are concerned, lets use Superman as another example:
Even with CIS off, he's still probably not going to insta-blitz his opponent, rip their arms off, and shove them up their ass immediately at the onset... Because even when Superman isn't acting "stupid", he is still fighting in character. As such, he doesn't routinely use those kind of tactics to win a battle.

However, if you were to add something like "bloodlusted", "all-out", "morals off", etc. to the thread stipulations, then a character's tactics may very well change in that respect... But that has nothing to do with the concept of CIS, as a character who is fighting "all-out" or "bloodlusted" is no longer obligated to fight "in character".

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
👆

Surfer is bloodlusted in this thread, anyway. Which is why I am wondering how he deals with Hulk when trying to kill/incapacitate him, especially after what we've learnt with the Green Door and his performance against TOBA etc.

Originally posted by carver9
You're known for mentioning Doomsday using his bones to shoot into people even though Doonsday doesn't think, and it was a showing that was only done once. 🤔

I already said if he's shown it in midbattle then it's fair game.
Surfer fighting someone and creating black hole near them as a means to win would count towards his character. Even if it's once.

Originally posted by h1a8

What other attacks, besides blasts and board, does Surfer have at his disposal against Thor?

Do you know nothing about the Surfer?

Originally posted by DeadpoolXXX
black hole bruh.

Hulk powers through black holes. Checkmate.