Orion VS Hulk

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Ill check it out later on. The scans provided have some missing pages.

But that Hulk does not seems to be at the same level of rage as in the WWH arc, IMO.

Now, go to sleep, too late for you buddy. 😛

LOL...I agree, it is kind of late.

Well, Waid is still calling current Hulk "World Breaker".

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Random/Starbrand04.jpg.html?

His fts also suggest that he starts off at High Herald level strength, probably above that since his weaker incarnation has displayed high herald plus strength.

The Hulk that withstood Pandora's energies was Green Scar, the same version from World War Hulk.

I don't know that his base level anger/strength was as high as during World War Hulk. During that arc he could beat the shit out of a Herald while holding back at his base.

That being said, there is no contradiction. Hulk's power is inherently dynamic.

You could substitute Savage Hulk for that feat and it would not matter at all because the entire point of the character is that he can amp exponentially to practically any point the writer wants.

Beyonder: "You are nothing but raging power personified! An infinity of power with no finite element inside!"

Why is it that I as a Thor fan (Hulk's biggest rival) can accept this about him but Superman fans just can't? It's hilarious that as more and more evidence comes to light for the Hulk, the more defensive they get.

LOL...they will NEVER accept Hulks strength. Its an argument that will go on forever.

I would also like to add this scan.

I cant read his power level. His strength is limitless.

http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Hulk/HulkRespect02TTA078.jpg.html

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
There is a similar response to this as well, about how Pak sees what a top tier is capable of. Just to give one example there is a writer who portrays the Hulk being defeated by snake, which in turn is the same writer who portrays Superman as being capable of cooling off a white dwarf star. withstand world wide mental control or the core of a star. According to that writer Superman is billions of times more powerful than the Hulk and that is a direct comparison made by the same person on canon comics on their respective universes. I think is Paul Jenkins, IIRC.

Jesus, never have I seen so much attempt to devalue a character and a feat.

Pak's Top Tier's aren't magically weaker then others just because he writes Hulk far above Top Tier depending on his levels of rage.

So I post a scan of a canon Hulk feat and your response is to compare a random Hulk low showing by a writer across DC/Marvel?

And you do this like a month before Pak starts writing Superman?

My initial instinct was to dig for a similar example but it would be a waste of time and irrelevant. Continue this line of thinking if it appeases I care not, it's just sad.

FYI: His Top Tiers are incredibly powerful, just as powerful as any writer barring the odd crazy showing like Hyperion and his recent feat. Of course he wrote Hercules holding up the Heavens, Doctor Strange stopping time, Surfer sealing up the entirety of the Old Power but whatever.

Originally posted by carver9
LOL...they will NEVER accept Hulks strength. Its an argument that will go on forever.

I don't get it, it's like Hulk being good at something directly devalues Superman or something. Just mind boggling.

Remember when Superman bench pressed a planet for 5 days? People called it crazy, perhaps stupid, and just moved on. Why is that so difficult?

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Based on the evidence, If that conclusion of current Hulk > WWH is not correct, then it means a herc is a wrong calculation.

You can pick any conclusion you want.

But if 1 herc downs WWH and 133 hercs don't down a weaker version of Hulk then what is the conclusion We should pick?

That current Hulk can tank 133 hercs but WWH can't when WWH is supposed to have better stats than current Hulk?

IMO IS either

Herc measure is innacurate
herc measure is accurate , but current Hulk is > WWH (maybe WWH holds back more than current Hulk)

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Jesus, never have I seen so much attempt to devalue a character and a feat.

Lol it's typical and not even the worst case scenario regarding hulk. You should see the attempts to rationalize WBH strength as comparable to Thor or juggernauts.

Originally posted by Rao Kal El
Based on the evidence, If that conclusion of current Hulk > WWH is not correct, then it means a herc is a wrong calculation.

You can pick any conclusion you want.

But if 1 herc downs WWH and 133 hercs don't down a weaker version of Hulk then what is the conclusion We should pick?

That current Hulk can tank 133 hercs but WWH can't when WWH is supposed to have better stats than current Hulk?

IMO IS either

Herc measure is innacurate
herc measure is accurate , but current Hulk is > WWH (maybe WWH holds back more than current Hulk)

current hulk is some form of savage hulk that functions a little better than the original

I suspect he's just trying to wind people up. He can't honestly be that poor at reasoning...

Anyway, given Savage Hulk's already bfred Pre-Crisis Superman into space with a mere flexing of his muscles and Hulk's only grown more powerful since then ... I guess he feels it prudent to get to cutting down the Hulk feats now, before somebody revives an old Hulk vs Superman thread.

On topic again, people seem to be in agreement that Hulk wins this.

Originally posted by janus77
I suspect he's just trying to wind people up. He can't honestly be that poor at reasoning...

Anyway, given Savage Hulk's already bfred Pre-Crisis Superman into space with a mere flexing of his muscles and Hulk's only grown more powerful since then ... I guess he feels it prudent to get to cutting down the Hulk feats now, before somebody revives an old Hulk vs Superman thread.

On topic again, people seem to be in agreement that Hulk wins this.

Maybe in HTH, but if Orion can use his standard equipment, it's basically PF Orion vs Hulk and Orion would win the majority.

Originally posted by Diesldude
I understand that the hulk can grow strong quickly, but what outcome was in doubt? That he would be able to budge superman?

The whole time superman just stood there until he noticed the device and then he blocked hulk so that he can remove it. We agree that the hulk can keep growing stronger and stronger if his opponent lets him flail away while an annoying device is fueling his anger. But from that scan it appears that superman could have ended that fight at anytime.

How much power was herc expending when they measured him? And how do they know that, that punch was his hardest?
For them to say that the hulk punches 133 times a full powered herc punch then it would mean that that measured both herc and hulks punch that was 133x.

So why was the planet still standing? Unless -
A single punch herc punch is a mountain level punch at best and 133x should destroy a small country.

Edit. This 133 herc power sounds like H1a8's calculations using 50 earth weights yet he gets chit on all the time for it.

It said the outcome of the contest was now in doubt. Which I guess was them matching their respective powers/strength.

I guess with Superman resorting to blocking the punch and Hulk's skyrocketing strength, he was about to get rocked, I don't know.

I guess. I think by that point at the end, if Superman tried to punch out Hulk, it might not go so well for him in the long run if Hulk strength continued to escalate.

😂

Oh man, did anyone else read this? I don't know how much energy Hercules expanded, I just know it was a lot and he's about as strong as Elites come. Because the writer said it was his hardest.

Not a single country was destroyed, probably not even a mountain. But I beat Hercules can hit with planetary force under Pak.

So unwilling to accept what's on panel, just wow.

How can you compare an in comic scale to some numbers H1 came up with to waste our time with?

Originally posted by abhilegend
What do you mean he was getting close to superman in strength? The only thing that was in doubt was that whether hulk would've been able to move superman, that's not getting close to superman in strength. Superman nonchalantly stopping a hulk's punch who was getting his strength doubled by every second is a ridiculous feat.

I think it's pretty clear it was a contest of respective strengths to me.

Feel free to disagree.

I don't think there was anything nonchalant about it.

How was Hulk close to strength? PC Superman was obviously stronger.

Originally posted by Golgo13
How was Hulk close to strength? PC Superman was obviously stronger.

Depends on what you mean by close. If there's a good chance Hulk would take him off his feet when he's trying to hold his ground, I don't think he's any longer facing a gnat but someone who maybe he shouldn't give free hits too.

I think he had the advantage in strength, yea.

Originally posted by Golgo13
Maybe in HTH, but if Orion can use his standard equipment, it's basically PF Orion vs Hulk and Orion would win the majority.

Even only in h2h, Orions speed/skill edge helps make up for the strenght disadvantage.

At first, Supes wasn't taking him all that seriously. Just standing there. If Superman were to go all out (And we're talking PC Supes), he would have crushed Hulk, IMO.

Originally posted by cdtm
Even only in h2h, Orions speed/skill edge helps make up for the strenght disadvantage.

I agree, people are underestimating his fighting power. If his head is in the game, I'd give Orion the majority. If it's just a slugfest, I give Hulk the majority.

Originally posted by cdtm
Even only in h2h, Orions speed/skill edge helps make up for the strenght disadvantage.

Wasnt impressed by your speed fts. You show Orion moving in a blur, the same scans I posted of Hulk. Then you show him catching a bullet. Hulk has slapped Ironman repulsar ray out of the air with ease.

Orion was recently outracing Hermes, who is a lot faster than Hulk. And seemed to be much faster than WW herself, but I have to double check.