Originally posted by quanchi112please stop trolling and address all my statements. I'll repeat
He was not amped when he took her to the sun with his strength.That fight makes it obvious she can't compete with him unless she uses her skill. Same thing with Herc cept he is skilled as well.
He is stronger and more durable so she loses.
Originally posted by h1a8
by an amped Superman. SUPERMAN is a good deal stronger too. A much stronger Superman failed to break her face when he punched her across space with all his might.You just can't cherry pick low showings and establish them as her power level for a forum fight. You do that all the time. That's trolling in a way. We use full capacity here.
So again what are you saying? Herc is significantly stronger than her? If so then by how much or how many times do you believe?
Originally posted by -Pr-
Unless someone can prove that Diana can consciously "shut off" her powers, the idea should be dropped, tbh.And no, it's not nearly the same thing as Superman's speed.
The fact that Dinah, when fighting her, notes she isn't using her powers, and that when she and Batman spar, he uses moves that only would work against non-superhuman foes and they work (and then they talk out what'd happen next), and the performance is totally different from when they fight with powers (wherein Diana pwns him), is a fair bit of evidence for it if you ask me.
Originally posted by h1a8Superman was not amped when he flew her against her will nearly into the sun.
please stop trolling and address all my statements. I'll repeat
Superman was also amped against Doomsday from HP and it Didnt help at all.
I have addressed your points. WW weathered the storm due to trickery and hiding not like she can fight him straight up.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Superman was not amped when he flew her against her will nearly into the sun.Superman was also amped against Doomsday from HP and it Didnt help at all.
I have addressed your points. WW weathered the storm due to trickery and hiding not like she can fight him straight up.
Some argued he was amped when he hit her back to Earth since he was right next to the Sun.
HP DD is more powerful than WW and a sunamp is arguably more powerful than a motherbox box.
You haven't' address the points of you cherry picking low showings and implying that is the exact power level a character will be at in a forum fight. You are ignoring full capacity.
The last thing, you didn't answer the question of how much stronger do you think Herc is over WW or how many times stronger in your opinion.
Originally posted by h1a8So ?
Some argued he was amped when he hit her back to Earth since he was right next to the Sun.HP DD is more powerful than WW and a sunamp is arguably more powerful than a motherbox box.
You haven't' address the points of you cherry picking low showings and implying that is the exact power level a character will be at in a forum fight. You are ignoring full capacity.
The last thing, you didn't answer the question of how much stronger do you think Herc is over WW or how many times stronger in your opinion.
Arguable but both are amps. DD can take Superman on directly whereas WW cannot hence the point.
No, I am embracing it. WW needs her skill as she cannot directly have a chance against someone like Superman without it.
He is stronger.
Originally posted by quanchi112
So ?Arguable but both are amps. DD can take Superman on directly whereas WW cannot hence the point.
No, I am embracing it. WW needs her skill as she cannot directly have a chance against someone like Superman without it.
He is stronger.
Both Superman and DD are a lot more powerful than Hercules. So your point is moot anyway.
How much stronger is he over her?
Also you should know that strength isn't the deciding factor since you voted for CA against Aquaman (lmao). The strength difference there is VAST.
Originally posted by h1a8I disagree.
Both Superman and DD are a lot more powerful than Hercules. So your point is moot anyway.How much stronger is he over her?
Also you should know that strength isn't the deciding factor since you voted for CA against Aquaman (lmao). The strength difference there is VAST.
Stronger.
Cap's skill advantage is that much greater than Aquaman's to negate the strength advantage which isn't the case here.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree.Stronger.
Cap's skill advantage is that much greater than Aquaman's to negate the strength advantage which isn't the case here.
No you don't. You just don't want it to be true that's all. Feats don't lie.
20% stronger, twice as strong? Give me an estimate of what you feel.
Aquaman is quite skilled in h2h combat (not as much as Cap though) but his strength is vastly greater and would do much better than say classic kingpin or sabretooth. The strength difference in WW's and Herc's case is very small (I believe she is stronger though) but the speed difference is even greater than the skill difference in the Cap vs. Aquaman case and the skill difference is significant too. So you are proven to be marvel bias and your opinion can not be trusted here.
Originally posted by h1a8Feats are usually exclusive so no basis for comparison.
No you don't. You just don't want it to be true that's all. Feats don't lie.20% stronger, twice as strong? Give me an estimate of what you feel.
Aquaman is quite skilled in h2h combat (not as much as Cap though) but his strength is vastly greater and would do much better than say classic kingpin or sabretooth. The strength difference in WW's and Herc's case is very small (I believe she is stronger though) but the speed difference is even greater than the skill difference in the Cap vs. Aquaman case and the skill difference is significant too. So you are proven to be marvel bias and your opinion can not be trusted here.
Dunno, stronger.
Cap is a Lot more skilled.
Herc is stronger and more durable hence why he wins. You don't read comics hence your ignorance.
Originally posted by h1a8
Strength-WW or equals
Skill-WW
Agility-WW
Reflexes-WW
Speed-WW by a lotHow does Herc win in your opinion?
Originally posted by The Sorrow
Well I disagree with your list for a start plus those aren't the only relevant criteria in a fight. Herc is stronger, more durable, just as skilled imo, and will play dirty if he has to. His preferred style of g-r wrestling is also a perfect counter against Diana's close range hand speed advantage. Some of Marvels most powerful bricks i.e. Thor, Sentry, Hulk etc have fought Hercules and he has always been able to hold his own. He arguably got the better of Sentry, has never been ko'd by Hulk at full strength and has defeated Thor who has 1000's years of battle experience in h2h combat. I would put all of those guys above Diana if they ever were to fight 1v1.
Herc is not stronger or more durable than Diana. Not at all. I'm only entertaining the silly notion because it is moot anyway. Wrestling skills are irrelevant when someone is vastly faster and more agile than you. They would simply outmaneuver you (a slug). We use full capacity on a forum fight. Diana will have her speed and reflexes here. There is no writer here to turn them off.
Experience is almost meaningless in a comic. Thor has thousands of years experience and CA is still far more skilled than him. Post Crisis WW has actually lived for more than a thousand years and in another arc has fought along Superman in a dimension for over a thousand years. WW is far more skilled than Hercules. There is no way you can read comics and think they have comparable skill. He fights like a C class fighter where WW is easily an A class martial artist. She is more skilled at kicking, parrying, countering, blocking, use of pressure points, etc. That's also a moot point since if someone is vastly faster with vastly better reflexes then skill is irrelevant (flash or quicksilver for example). LOL, there is no such thing as fighting dirty, everything fair in a fight.
WW has matched Superman (who is far more powerful than Hercules), DD, CM, Konvict, etc. and did well. She has taken hits from the best of them (more powerful than Hercules) without being koed. She has managed to seriously hurt or damage beings greater than Hercules too. She is mentioned and shown to be stronger than D.C. Hercules (who achieved the same trials of Marvel Hercules) and is considered the best chance to stop Superman if he ever went rogue. Batman has said that she is the best melee fighter in the world.
Originally posted by Sasaraixx
She may not be able to "shut them off" but she clearly is able to hold back to an incredible degree or she would not even be able to spar with characters like Black Canary. To imply that she is using her super strength or speed in these sparring sessions is equally as baseless as implying that she can just shut them off. It is entirely counter-intuitive.I know that some will not be satisfied until we see a depowered WW doing some of the same things, but I don't think the BC fight can be so easily discarded. Dinah's thoughts in that scene clearly show that WW is not using her powers. Now, you can of course argue what constitutes her "powers" or to what degree she is holding back. Given the characters portrayals during those sessions and the consistent praise WW has received from characters like Batman and BC, it is quite logical to conclude that her skill level is very high. How high? Again, that is debatable, but I would not give anyone but a dedicated martial artist an advantage over her in skill.
As for this fight, even if you rate them equal in strength and skill, or rate Hercules slightly stronger, she still has an overwhelming speed advantage. That's not even factoring in flight. She wins a solid majority.
I never said she wasn't holding back. She'd have to hold back for it even to be a fight. I wasn't implying that she was using her speed or strength in those matches; my bad if it came across that way.
And at no point was I saying anything about downplaying Diana's martial skill.
Originally posted by h1a8
How would you explain a human being able to block a strike from a being who can lift more than a million tons? With her ftl reflexes does she see batman moving in super statue motion and purposely gets hit by him?How would you explain all that? Where are her powers? Does she pretend or do the writer ignore them?
Now no one argued or suggested that she cuts her own powers off (she doesn't). The writer does.
It would be very hard to explain how the strikes of a being who can lift in access of millions of tons are blocked by human opponents?
Also when fighting she doesn't see batman or lady shiva moving in super statue slow motion where she purposely gets hit by them.
...What?
Originally posted by Q99
The fact that Dinah, when fighting her, notes she isn't using her powers, and that when she and Batman spar, he uses moves that only would work against non-superhuman foes and they work (and then they talk out what'd happen next), and the performance is totally different from when they fight with powers (wherein Diana pwns him), is a fair bit of evidence for it if you ask me.
So Diana can turn off her durability? Like I said, if you have a scan that proves she can consciously shut off her powers, show me, please.
And again, I seem to have to say it, at no point was I attempting to downplay her skill.
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lol @ Cap beating Aquaman, though.