Wonder Woman VS Immortal Hercules H2H

Started by The Sorrow9 pages

Originally posted by h1a8
Herc is not stronger or more durable than Diana. Not at all. I'm only entertaining the silly notion because it is moot anyway. Wrestling skills are irrelevant when someone is vastly faster and more agile than you. They would simply outmaneuver you (a slug). We use full capacity on a forum fight. Diana will have her speed and reflexes here. There is no writer here to turn them off.

Experience is almost meaningless in a comic. Thor has thousands of years experience and CA is still far more skilled than him. Post Crisis WW has actually lived for more than a thousand years and in another arc has fought along Superman in a dimension for over a thousand years. WW is far more skilled than Hercules. There is no way you can read comics and think they have comparable skill. He fights like a C class fighter where WW is easily an A class martial artist. She is more skilled at kicking, parrying, countering, blocking, use of pressure points, etc. That's also a moot point since if someone is vastly faster with vastly better reflexes then skill is irrelevant (flash or quicksilver for example). LOL, there is no such thing as fighting dirty, everything fair in a fight.

WW has matched Superman (who is far more powerful than Hercules), DD, CM, Konvict, etc. and did well. She has taken hits from the best of them (more powerful than Hercules) without being koed. She has managed to seriously hurt or damage beings greater than Hercules too. She is mentioned and shown to be stronger than D.C. Hercules (who achieved the same trials of Marvel Hercules) and is considered the best chance to stop Superman if he ever went rogue. Batman has said that she is the best melee fighter in the world.


Being able to match beings like the Hulk and Thor on a regular basis is absolutely proof he is at least as strong as she is. He definitely handles a punch better than she does, even while mortal and at half-strength was able to take an extended beating from an angry Hulk. Wonder Woman has been damn near one-shotted by Superman, no high herald has ever done that to Herc afaik. You certainly won't see him being matched by metas at full strength, WW durability is up and down at the best of times.

Again you're only focusing on certain skills while ignoring the multitude of other factors in h2h. Her being a better martial artist is all well and good in theory but tbh she doesn't use it anywhere near as frequently as you seem to be implying. You seem to believe she is Batman, with Superman's physicality, I can assure you neither are true. Thor has held his own with Captain America in mortal form, yet has admitted on panel that Herc is better skilled in h2h than he. Just because they prefer to use brawn doesn't mean they aren't skilled melee fighters.

When has Wonder Woman matched Superman?
Hmmm ok so she does something EVERY hero including Herc does and occasionally punches above her weight class? Amazing. Diana has the natural speed/agility advantage plus the bracers so she would probably land more hits initially, but his wrestling and knowledge of submission holds would offset that, plus he has the damage soak/durability and likely strength edge.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Being able to match beings like the Hulk and Thor on a regular basis is absolutely proof he is at [b]least as strong as she is. He definitely handles a punch better than she does, even while mortal and at half-strength was able to take an extended beating from an angry Hulk. Wonder Woman has been damn near one-shotted by Superman, no high herald has ever done that to Herc afaik. You certainly won't see him being matched by metas at full strength, WW durability is up and down at the best of times.

Again you're only focusing on certain skills while ignoring the multitude of other factors in h2h. Her being a better martial artist is all well and good in theory but tbh she doesn't use it anywhere near as frequently as you seem to be implying. You seem to believe she is Batman, with Superman's physicality, I can assure you neither are true. Thor has held his own with Captain America in mortal form, yet has admitted on panel that Herc is better skilled in h2h than he. Just because they prefer to use brawn doesn't mean they aren't skilled melee fighters.

When has Wonder Woman matched Superman?
Hmmm ok so she does something EVERY hero including Herc does and occasionally punches above her weight class? Amazing. Diana has the natural speed/agility advantage plus the bracers so she would probably land more hits initially, but his wrestling and knowledge of submission holds would offset that, plus he has the damage soak/durability and likely strength edge. [/B]

If none of that convinces you then this will:

Her speed is vastly greater and she has moved and reacted with light speed.
Hercules isn't even as fast as a bullet. The speed of light is more than 500,000 times that of a bullet. That means she can move 5ft before he moves 1/1000 of an inch. She can react to 99.99% of his attacks and movements.
The fight is a serious stomp in her favor. The only way Hercules has a chance is if we neuter her speed and agility to nearly his levels.

The rest of the post is just in response to yours.

"I disagree. We use full capacity here.
She matched beings physically greater than Thor or Hulk though. She is stronger than D.C. Hercules for crying out loud (who achieved the same labors). She is the strongest female character in D.C.
Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any of these characters in physical strength. And she survived a sun amp punch from Superman that sent her from the sun to earth in hardly no time.

Hercules HAVE NOT SHOWN the level of skill as WW has. Look at the way he punches, kicks, etc. and look at the way she kicks, parry's, counters, use agility, etc. In a h2h fight in equal bodies she would treat him like a child. Hercules doesn't really have better damage soak than her. WWH 2 pieced him easily and gave him a pumpkin head. She has taken punishment from top tiers on many occasions and was fine. She is a warrior.
Also damage soak is meaningless when two characters are close in it and when pressure points come in to play.

WW is not as strong as Superman but she is within the vicinity. WW is just as skilled as Batman if not more. Batman even said she is the best melee fighter in the world.

Diana is very competent at grappling. But that is moot since being vastly faster and more agile than your opponent makes wrestling skills irrelevant. With her speed and agillity She can simply outmaneuver Hercules in a wrestling match if she wanted to.

She can also prevent the fight from being a wrestling fight. Have you ever seen in MMA a superior wrestler get stomped by a superior striker (who is faster and has better agility)?"

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Being able to match beings like the Hulk and Thor on a regular basis is absolutely proof he is at [b]least as strong as she is. He definitely handles a punch better than she does, even while mortal and at half-strength was able to take an extended beating from an angry Hulk. Wonder Woman has been damn near one-shotted by Superman, no high herald has ever done that to Herc afaik. You certainly won't see him being matched by metas at full strength, WW durability is up and down at the best of times.

Again you're only focusing on certain skills while ignoring the multitude of other factors in h2h. Her being a better martial artist is all well and good in theory but tbh she doesn't use it anywhere near as frequently as you seem to be implying. You seem to believe she is Batman, with Superman's physicality, I can assure you neither are true. Thor has held his own with Captain America in mortal form, yet has admitted on panel that Herc is better skilled in h2h than he. Just because they prefer to use brawn doesn't mean they aren't skilled melee fighters.

When has Wonder Woman matched Superman?
Hmmm ok so she does something EVERY hero including Herc does and occasionally punches above her weight class? Amazing. Diana has the natural speed/agility advantage plus the bracers so she would probably land more hits initially, but his wrestling and knowledge of submission holds would offset that, plus he has the damage soak/durability and likely strength edge. [/B]

👆

He made some fair points, but I still lean heavily towards Diana.

Originally posted by h1a8
If none of that convinces you then this will:

Her speed is vastly greater and she has moved and reacted with light speed.
Hercules isn't even as fast as a bullet. The speed of light is more than 500,000 times that of a bullet. That means she can move 5ft before he moves 1/1000 of an inch. She can react to 99.99% of his attacks and movements.
The fight is a serious stomp in her favor. [b]The only way Hercules has a chance is if we neuter her speed and agility to nearly his levels.

The rest of the post is just in response to yours.

"I disagree. We use full capacity here.
She matched beings physically greater than Thor or Hulk though. She is stronger than D.C. Hercules for crying out loud (who achieved the same labors). She is the strongest female character in D.C.
Superman>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any of these characters in physical strength. And she survived a sun amp punch from Superman that sent her from the sun to earth in hardly no time.

Hercules HAVE NOT SHOWN the level of skill as WW has. Look at the way he punches, kicks, etc. and look at the way she kicks, parry's, counters, use agility, etc. In a h2h fight in equal bodies she would treat him like a child. Hercules doesn't really have better damage soak than her. WWH 2 pieced him easily and gave him a pumpkin head. She has taken punishment from top tiers on many occasions and was fine. She is a warrior.
Also damage soak is meaningless when two characters are close in it and when pressure points come in to play.

WW is not as strong as Superman but she is within the vicinity. WW is just as skilled as Batman if not more. Batman even said she is the best melee fighter in the world.

Diana is very competent at grappling. But that is moot since being vastly faster and more agile than your opponent makes wrestling skills irrelevant. With her speed and agillity She can simply outmaneuver Hercules in a wrestling match if she wanted to.

She can also prevent the fight from being a wrestling fight. Have you ever seen in MMA a superior wrestler get stomped by a superior striker (who is faster and has better agility)?" [/B]


Only thing you have convinced me of is that you don't read many comics, at least not many Marvel ones. Where has Wonder Woman fought at lightspeed? I would like to see that.

We use full capacity yes but we don't ignore lower end showings either or act as though she fights like Batman and Flash in every fight because she doesn't. At all. Your calculations are great but mean nothing in a comicbook fight, and aren't necessary. You are pretty much dealing with gods here who are blessed with superspeed as standard, Hercules has reacted to blitzes from the Sentry while having his back turned and fighting someone else so he is far from slow. His top speed is undefined so I'm not sure where this imaginary ceiling you created that limits him to being slower than bullets has come from.

Again who has she MATCHED (not fought actually matched) that is stronger than Hulk? WWH was the only time Hulk has really outclassed Hercules, but the same can be said of Clark and Diana. When he really cuts loose she is nowhere near his strength level and the instance you brought up she passed out from one punch. Not a great example, hell he even broke her damn wrists. Hercules got up and took his licks like a man without fighting back, I'm not even a massive Herc fan but his damage soak has always been very impressive. While hers is impressive sometimes, others it is very suspect.

Talented wrestlers in MMA usually do beat guys who can outstrike them. Even Anderson Silva has problems with wrestlers and he is one of the most elusive fighters I've ever seen in the sport. Hercules is tough enough to withstand her punches and bring the fight into his realm if need be:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/119153/2767166-16e6ccafbc_ga.jpeg
(Above scan shows he clearly isn't slow either)

Skill is a wash really a lot of what Diana has done Herc likely has a similar kind of feat anyway. His more impressive damage soak, arguably greater strength and ability to neutralize her slight striking and speed edge with his style makes this a very close fight indeed. I used to sleep on Herc a lot but he is a beast and easily on Thor's level, he just doesn't have weather manip, a trans/skyfather level weapon at his beck and call or anywhere near as many appearances.

Herc strength fts are greater than Wonder Womans.

Originally posted by zopzop
Kneeing people in the nuts, pulling hair, etc.. He fights like b|tch.
He fights like someone trained to kill in war-time.

IRL combat disciplines use any means necessary to subdue your opponent.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He fights like someone trained to kill in war-time.

IRL combat disciplines use any means necessary to subdue your opponent.


No he doesn't. Thor does, yet I've never seen him (even when he was absolutely bloodlusted by Warrior's Madness) stoop to Hercules' lows (pulling hair, kneeing in the crotch, etc..) to win a fight.

He doesn't do that because he isn't as good a fighter as Hercules obviously.

Originally posted by zopzop
No he doesn't. Thor does, yet I've never seen him (even when he was absolutely bloodlusted by Warrior's Madness) stoop to Hercules' lows (pulling hair, kneeing in the crotch, etc..) to win a fight.
You obviously never seen the Herc/Thor fight then when both were in opposite costumes

Herc fights to win. Which is why he can kick the shit out of someone like Sentry in a comic while laughing at his speed.

That's a variable not many people on his level have.

Originally posted by carver9
Herc strength fts are greater than Wonder Womans.

That's debatable. But Herc strength feats are greater than Thanos. Is he stronger than Thanos?

It's an irrelevant issue anyway since both can hurt each other and it won't come to strength here (speed, skill, agility, reflexes, experience, etc.)

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You obviously never seen the Herc/Thor fight then when both were in opposite costumes

Herc fights to win. Which is why he can kick the shit out of someone like Sentry in a comic while laughing at his speed.

That's a variable not many people on his level have.

And win "Hercules" did in their opposite costume fight. 😄

Originally posted by zopzop
No he doesn't. Thor does, yet I've never seen him (even when he was absolutely bloodlusted by Warrior's Madness) stoop to Hercules' lows (pulling hair, kneeing in the crotch, etc..) to win a fight.
That is why Thor will always be a small, unknown god.

Hercules for the win.

Originally posted by NemeBro
He doesn't do that because he isn't as good a fighter as Hercules obviously.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
You obviously never seen the Herc/Thor fight then when both were in opposite costumes

Herc fights to win. Which is why he can kick the shit out of someone like Sentry in a comic while laughing at his speed.

That's a variable not many people on his level have.


That fight was a joke. And Herc "fights to win" by resorting to b|tch tactics. 👇

Thor is warrior that's never stooped that low and he still holds his own and wins vs A-list bricks.

Originally posted by Zack Fair
That is why Thor will always be a small, unknown god.

Hercules for the win.


That's why Herc's series was canceled and Thor still has his own plus makes cameos in multiple other series? 😎

Originally posted by zopzop
That fight was a joke. And Herc "fights to win" by resorting to b|tch tactics. 👇

Thor is warrior that's never stooped that low and he still holds his own and wins vs A-list bricks.


http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules44.jpg.html
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules45.jpg

Never stooped so low.

Whatever you want to call it, it's still within his capabilities in any thread. Boo hoo he fights cheap. That's not going to change a thing.
Herc kicks WW straight in the box and then grabs her hair and smashes her face into his knee.

Easy win.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift
http://s388.photobucket.com/user/OneDumbG0/media/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules44.jpg.html
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Thor%20Fights/ThorvsHercules45.jpg

Never stooped so low.


I'm aware of that fight and it's a joke. Literally.

Whatever you want to call it, it's still within his capabilities in any thread. Boo hoo he fights cheap. That's not going to change a thing.
Herc kicks WW straight in the box and then grabs her hair and smashes her face into his knee.

Easy win.

She's too fast for him and since this fight isn't taking place in his ridiculous comic, he's phucked. Diana 10/10! 😮‍💨

It is painfully obvious that zopzop is severely biased against Hercules.

Hercules fights dirty because he is a warrior. Real life pankration fighters in ancient Greece would rip your ****ing dick off if they could, they would bite, eye gouge, pull hair, etc.

Pankration was a blood sport. Just because some little men are too little to stomach such brutal combat maneuvers does not make the skill of those who use them lesser.

Originally posted by zopzop

I'm aware of that fight and it's a joke. Literally.

She's too fast for him and since this fight isn't taking place in his ridiculous comic, he's phucked. Diana 10/10! 😮‍💨 [/B]

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor is warrior that's never stooped that low

Herc was reacting to Sentry easily. Who as we all know, is way faster than WW

Originally posted by NemeBro
It is painfully obvious that zopzop is severely biased against Hercules.

Hercules fights dirty because he is a warrior. Real life pankration fighters in ancient Greece would rip your ****ing dick off if they could, they would bite, eye gouge, pull hair, etc.

Pankration was a blood sport. Just because some little men are too little to stomach such brutal combat maneuvers does not make the skill of those who use them lesser.


Fight took place in his joke of a comic. Sentry would annihilate Hercules if he was anywhere near serious.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Herc was reacting to Sentry easily. Who as we all know, is way faster than WW

Yes? Diana is an Amazon Warrior. I'm sure she knows all about various Greek fighting styles, so that won't save him. Diana wins 10/10.

Originally posted by zopzop
Fight took place in his joke of a comic. Sentry would annihilate Hercules if he was anywhere near serious.
So we should just ignore everything that happened in his comics?

And Hercules was nowhere near serious as well. What does that leave us with? Fact is Sentry tried to use his speed and failed. He's way faster than WW.