Originally posted by Intrepid37
While disadvantaged. Have you not read their fight?
Fact is AT BEST Fisto maybe comparable to Ventress (though she still beats him 1-0 so far). But there's nothing to put him on par with late CW Maul/Kenobi.
ROTS Kenobi has by far the best Saber victory over the best trained Grievous. And both Maul and Kenobi have stomped Opress in a way Ventress/Fisto could only dream of.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Kenobi is only a [B]slightly better saber duelist then Fisto. I see no reason for Sidious not to blitz him. Sidious blitzed 3 of the best Jedi masters of all time in seconds and would have eventually killed the 4th in the saber duel(had he not been holding back). [/B]
First of all this only slightly better claim is something you've completely made up.
But even assuming it's true, of course there's reason to believe Kenobi would last longer than Fisto against Sidious. He's The Master of the most defensive lightsaber form and has an amazing defense velocity with his Saber which Dooku felt like he wouldn't even bother trying to get past. It's also a defense velocity which defended against Grievous's 20 strikes per second.
ROTS Kenobi has by far the best Saber victory over the best trained Grievous. And both Maul and Kenobi have stomped Opress in a way Ventress/Fisto could only dream of.
And Savage has stomped Kenobi badly. 3times to be exact.
First of all this only slightly better claim is something you've completely made up.
What makes Kenobi>>>>Fisto?. From what I've seen the only fighters Kenobis taking down in legit fights are Grievous and Ventress. Fisto took down the first and would have beaten the 2nd who's given Kenobi MANY problems.
So how is Kenobi not slightly better then Fisto?. Kenobi is stronger yeah, but hes only slighty better then Fisto, whos a good fighter.
But even assuming it's true, of course there's reason to believe Kenobi would last longer than Fisto against Sidious.
There isint. Sidious is far faster. Kenobi is at best a equal to Fisto in speed. Sidious blitzed Fisto. Even though Kenobi is better with a saber by a slight amount then Fisto dosint mean he lasts longer. At best he would last 5seconds.
He's The Master of the most defensive lightsaber form and has an amazing defense velocity with his Saber which Dooku felt like he wouldn't even bother trying to get past. It's also a defense velocity which defended against Grievous's 20 strikes per second.
Fisto beat said Grievous. So that means nothing.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Kenobi is only a [B]slightly better saber duelist then Fisto. I see no reason for Sidious not to blitz him. Sidious blitzed 3 of the best Jedi masters of all time in seconds and would have eventually killed the 4th in the saber duel(had he not been holding back). [/B]
While you may only be open to Obi-Wan being the slightly better swordsman, is it really that out of the question that he's the vastly suyperior defensive swordsman? He might not necessarily pose a great threat in a one-on-one lightsaber battle but simply being able to survive for an extended period of time would be extremely valuable in a team based scenario.
I also find the idea that they were "3 of the best Jedi masters of all time" highly questionable.
Originally posted by noitseuq
While you may only be open to Obi-Wan being the slightly better swordsman, is it really that out of the question that he's the vastly suyperior defensive swordsman? He might not necessarily pose a great threat in a one-on-one lightsaber battle but simply being able to survive for an extended period of time would be extremely valuable in a team based scenario.
Apparently he doesn't pose any threat at all, since he doesn't even qualify as a "competition" to Sidious per Lucas.
Originally posted by noitseuq
I also find the idea that they were "3 of the best Jedi masters of all time" highly questionable.
They might not be on Sidious's level, no, but they're better than chumps like Johun and Bane.
I also find the idea that they were "3 of the best Jedi masters of all time" highly questionable.
Why not?.
Tiin has redirected homing missels at point blank range. Has thrown around droids with his mind. Stalemated Mace Windu in sabers. Believed to have read Qui Gons mind.
Kolar has been stated to be one of the best saber duelists along with Mace Windu in the orders history and has bested Quinlan Vos with complete and total ease well holding back a feat only replicated by Count Dooku and Mace Windu.
Kit Fisto has defeated Obi Wan Kenobi in Cestus Deception been stated to have has moved so fast he looks as if hes in 3 places at once and dominated General Grievous.
Sidious speedblizting them shows how awesome and powerful Sidious is. And shows how his power ecplises even some of the greatest saber duelists and fighters in the history of the Jedi order. He would have killed the 4th in the saber duel eventually(as he held back vs Windu).
Originally posted by noitseuq
Obi-Wan beat Grievous back when it was worth a damn. From what I've heard, within the realm of The Clone Wars cartoon, Kit Fisto possessing a win over Grievous is something he shares with, among others, Ahsoka Tano.
Ahsoka never beat Grievous. Fisto tooled Grievous worse then Kenobi has in many of his fights vs the general in the CW. Kenobi did slightly better vs Grievous in ROTS which is why he's only slightly better then Kit. Kenobi/Kit are both far above Grievous.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Given that the declaration was issued in a context in which only lightsabers were used (Sidious striking down Tiin, Kolar, Fisto), we can say that it applies universally.
Well it technically refers to the entire engagement which also includes Mace Windu defending against Sidious's force powers.
Besides, I'd say the situation (it being primarily a lightsaber contest) was more incidental to the declaration rather than essential. It makes more sense in any life and death situation to be speaking in all-out terms as there are essentially no rules in a life and death scenario, no organised terms of battle, regardless of whether it resembled one that we typically deal in.
While you may only be open to Obi-Wan being the slightly better swordsman, is it really that out of the question that he's the vastly suyperior defensive swordsman? He might not necessarily pose a great threat in a one-on-one lightsaber battle but simply being able to survive for an extended period of time would be extremely valuable in a team based scenario.
Kenobi>Fisto in defence and Fisto>Kenobi in offensive. Which is why it balances out to Kenobi>Fisto by a slight edge.
True but again Fisto has better speed feats then Kenobi and is faster. At best Kenobi=Fisto in speed. So Kenobi wont be able to react to Sidious before Sidious slams a saber through his chest just like he did to Kit.
Originally posted by noitseuq
Well it technically refers to the entire engagement which also includes Mace Windu defending against Sidious's force powers.Besides, I'd say the situation (it being primarily a lightsaber contest) was more incidental to the declaration rather than essential. It makes more sense in any life and death situation to be speaking in all-out terms as there are essentially no rules in a life and death scenario, no organised terms of battle, regardless of whether it resembled one that we typically deal in.
The inherent and damning flaw in that interpretation being that if Obi-Wan were capable of challenging or holding his own against Sidious in a strict fencing match... he would logically qualify as "competition" which flies in the face of George's declaration that says "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" in response to the humiliating deaths of Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar. Obi-Wan simply can't challenge Sidious in any aspect of combat. Which makes the most sense.
He leaned into a thrust at Kenobi's gut that the Jedi Master deflected with a rising parry, bringing them chest-to-chest, blades flaring, locked together a handbreadth from each other's throats. "Your moves are too slow, Kenobi. Too predictable. You'll have to do better."
Kenobi's response to this friendly word was to regard him with a twinkle of gentle amusement in his eye.
"Very well, then," the Jedi said, and shot straight upward over Dooku's head so fast it seemed he'd vanished.
And in the space where Kenobi's chest had been was now only the blue lightning of Skywalker's blade driving straight for Dooku's heart.
Only a desperate whirl to one side made what would have been a smoking hole in his chest into a line of scorch through his armorweave cloak.
Dooku thought, What?
He threw himself spinning up and away from the two Jedi to land on the situation table, disengaging for a moment to recover his composure-that had been entirely too close-but by the time his boots touched down Kenobi was there to meet him, blade weaving through a defensive velocity so bewilderingly fast that Dooku dared not even try a strike; he threw a feint toward Kenobi's face, then dropped and spun in a reverse ankle-sweep-But not only did Kenobi easily overleap this attack, Dooku nearly lost his own foot to a slash from Skywalker who had again come out of nowhere and now carved through the table so that it collapsed under Dooku's weight and dumped the Sith Lord un-:eremoniously to the floor. This was not in the plan. Skywalker slammed his following strike down so hard that the shock of deflecting it buckled Dooku's elbows. Dooku threw himself into a backroll that brought him to his feet-and Kenobi's blade was there to meet his neck. Only a desperate whirling slash-block, coupled with a wheel kick that caught Kenobi on the thigh, bought him enough time to leap away again, and when he touched down-Skywalker was already there.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
The inherent and damning flaw in that interpretation being that if Obi-Wan were capable of challenging or holding his own against Sidious in a strict fencing match... he would logically qualify as "competition" which flies in the face of George's declaration that says "you have to be Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor" in response to the humiliating deaths of Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar.
Not if Sidious can render Obi-Wan's abilities as a swordsman irrelevant by immediately overwhelming him with the force.