Here are some questions for those who say Mace beat Sidious
-How come Mace beat Sora in a close fight?. If he was as good as Sidious with a saber he would have speedblitzed him.
-How come Mace was always inferior to Yoda who Sidious stalemated?.
-How come Mace is a equal to Dooku who's inferior to Sidious?.
Those are many questions you HAVE to answer.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
[B]Here are some questions for those who say Mace beat Sidious-How come Mace beat Sora in a close fight?. If he was as good as Sidious with a saber he would have speedblitzed him.
He wasn't yet as powerful.
-How come Mace was always inferior to Yoda who Sidious stalemated?.
Vaapad + shatterpoint.
-How come Mace is a equal to Dooku who's inferior to Sidious?.
He was "equal" to Dooku by vague speculation in Dark Rendezvous.
Furthermore, you're assuming that ABC logic always works, when Anakin defeated Dooku but lost to Obi Wan.
Those are many questions you HAVE to answer.
Not really, since my side has the advantages of occam's razor, Lucas's commentary and the RotS novelization's depiction of the fight.
Originally posted by ROTJ Vader
Here are some questions for those who say Mace beat Sidious-How come Mace beat Sora in a close fight?. If he was as good as Sidious with a saber he would have speedblitzed him.
-How come Mace was always inferior to Yoda who Sidious stalemated?.
-How come Mace is a equal to Dooku who's inferior to Sidious?.Those are many questions you HAVE to answer.
You do understand how this works right.. We don't need to PROVE Sids didn't throw the fight.. YOU NEED TO PROVE THAT HE DID. I only have ONE question for you and really it crushes your and intre entire argument.
1. WHY DIDN'T LUCAS IN ANY INTERVIEW OR COMMENTARY OR WHEN EDITING THE BOOK. WRITE THIS HUGE PLOT POINT OF SIDS THROWING THE ENTIRE FIGHT AND NOT TRYING TO KILL MACE. Why did he never mention it.. never include it in the novel or scirpt or commentary... NEVER EVER did he say sids threw the fight. In fact he said the EXACT opposite and had the novel clear up his views... Mace OVERPOWERED sids... Mace and sids fought as equals thanks to vaapad... You have to be mace or yoda to compete with sids. All those statements make it clear mace can fight with Sids and that is EXACTLY what we see. Never, not once, did he even mention that Sids threw the fight and was never trying to kill Mace. Tha tis the only fact needed to debunk your theory.. i.e. you have ZERO proof and only your conjecture and butt hurt for Sids losing. but no answer....
1. First he was injured and not even wanting to kill or fight really.. and yet he STILL WON. More importantly though.. the NOVEL which you haven't read makes it clear why Mace was fighting so good.. BECAUSE he realized he wasn't just fighting a sith lord he was fighting for the FATE OF THE UNIVERSE. He was more focused and fighting for more than just a regular old fight. To go further.. he was alos feeding of sids amping his stats..which he wasn't doing with Sora... so that is why he was faster with Sids. These are easy decuctions. Try figuring them out for yourself before asking dumb questions.
2. Point me to the quote that says yoda is superior to Mace in saber dueling or even in general. He very well might be.. but not only does that not matter.. since Yoda came across as superior against Palps.. but it's not a valid point. Just beause Machida isn't as good as jones doesn't mean he can't beat Shogun. it doesn't work that way. Being inferior to one doesn't mean you can't beat another. Styles make fights. Another dumb question.
3. I won't even induldge this stupid question. Sparring matches don't mean diddly squat.
Originally posted by Master Han
1. And your claim that Palpatine was "toying" with Windu and was in control is wrong.2. Uh, the two were already dueling evenly by then.
3. I mean that you haven't proven any of your contentions, you've merely suggested that they [b]could
be true.4. Prove that Palpatine "knew" Windu wouldn't try to strike him. [/B]
Originally posted by Master Han
1. And your claim that Palpatine was "toying" with Windu and was in control is wrong.2. Uh, the two were already dueling evenly by then.
3. I mean that you haven't proven any of your contentions, you've merely suggested that they [b]could
be true.4. Prove that Palpatine "knew" Windu wouldn't try to strike him. [/B]
1 & 2: The ''impasse'' is a non-canon as the speed perceived by Anakin: if you'll count it, I'll point out that Mace needed a huge amp just to fight Sidious.
3. ... I've provided excerpts from the novelization, and very clear ones too.
4. Note how he says ''arrested'' before ''executed'', as in they would arrest him first and then kill him.
"Anakin, I know. I will be the first to be arrested -the first to be executed-but I will be far from the last."
-Revenge of the Sith
"Here-" The Chancellor rummaged around within his desk for a moment, then brought forth a document reader. "Do you know what this is?"
Anakin recognized the seal Padme had placed on it. "Yes, sir-that's the Petition of the Two Thousand-"
"No, Anakin! No!" Palpatine slammed the document reader on his desktop hard enough to make Anakin jump. "It is a roll of traitors."
Anakin went absolutely still. "What?"
"There are, now, only two kinds of Senators in our government, Anakin. Those whose names are on this so-called petition," Palpatine said, "and those whom the Jedi are about to arrest."
-Revenge of the Sith
MACE WINDU: You're under arrest.
PALPATINE: Really, Master Windu, you cannot be serious. On what charge?
MACE WINDU: You're a Sith Lord!
-Revenge of the Sith
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.
"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."
-Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by Intrepid37
1 & 2: The ''impasse'' is a non-canon as the speed perceived by Anakin:
Where in the films is it contradicted?
if you'll count it, I'll point out that Mace needed a huge amp just to fight Sidious.
What point is there in arguing this, when you're basically conceding the point that Windu + vaapad + shatterpoint was Sidious's equal/superior?
3. ... I've provided excerpts from the novelization, and very clear ones too.
Where?
4. Note how he says ''arrested'' before ''executed'', as in they would arrest him first and then kill him."Anakin, I know. I will be the first to be arrested -the first to be executed-but I will be far from the last."
"Here-" The Chancellor rummaged around within his desk for a moment, then brought forth a document reader. "Do you know what this is?"
Anakin recognized the seal Padme had placed on it. "Yes, sir-that's the Petition of the Two Thousand-"
"No, Anakin! No!" Palpatine slammed the document reader on his desktop hard enough to make Anakin jump. "It is a roll of traitors."
Anakin went absolutely still. "What?"
"There are, now, only two kinds of Senators in our government, Anakin. Those whose names are on this so-called petition," Palpatine said, "and those whom the Jedi are about to arrest."
MACE WINDU: You're under arrest.
PALPATINE: Really, Master Windu, you cannot be serious. On what charge?
MACE WINDU: You're a Sith Lord!
Now the shadow was only Palpatine: old and shrunken, thinning hair bleached white by time and care, face lined with exhaustion.
"For all your power, you are no Jedi. All you are, my lord," Mace said evenly, staring past his blade, "is under arrest."
How could Palpatine have known that Windu would still decide to take him alive, even after he had just killed three of his fellow Jedi?
Indeed, after the failed lightning attack, Windu does decide to kill him. What would Palpatine do if Mace just lunged at him, instead of telegraphing a wide, overhand hack?
1. Uh, Palpatine was forcing Mace back the entire time and killed Fisto while dueling Mace at the same time.
2. Because people try and use the fight and the ''impasse'' to show to Mace is Plagueis' superior, but to only pick out the ''impasse'' and leave out the drastic amp (which was because his love for the Republic was shattered, not because of Vaapad, by the way) is annoying/stupid.
3. Four-five pages back or so.
4. That's the problem. That's how it is in the movies. It's full of PIS. We can't do nothing about it. I've given you examples of Jedi/Sith failed to grab the opportunity of a simple kill,