Originally posted by Master Han
But we can't assume that you just wanted to be a dick, unless if we have evidence to suggest it. It's a matter of probability; you could have had such schemes, but out of 100 times...what are the chances, without specific parameters? (IMO)
So then, Occam's Razor cannot provide you with certainty? It's a 'best' guess which can't be used to define the realities of specific circumstances...
Originally posted by Master Han
No, that's exactly what you're doing. Occam's Razor tell us that when Windu defeated Palpatine, he did so because he caught him off guard and kicked his lightsaber out of his hands. It does not tell us that Palpatine had concocted a convoluted and absurd plot that only worked on sheer luck.
Originally posted by Master Han
2:01 and onwards.Firstly, he could have stabbed him right after kicking him.
Then, while Palpatine is scurrying away in fear (why wouldn't Windu sense his deception?), Windu could have lunged in and stabbed him.
...
even at the very end, Windu could have simply done a quick, efficient stab to the heart, instead of a pointlessly telegraphed, overhand slash that leaves himself open and exposed.
Originally posted by Master Han
and while Windu gets stronger over the course of TCW,
Originally posted by Master Han
the RotS novelization implies that Dooku's age is finally getting to him;
Originally posted by Master Han
either way, Windu's younger age means that he'll advance faster than Dooku, via diminishing returns.
Originally posted by Master Han
That scene makes no sense whatsoever, given that Dooku is confident taking the duo on at the same time in RotS, and Obi Wan says "this time we'll take him together", rather than "HA! Anakin already kicked your ass before!"
Originally posted by Master Han
Likely, Anakin was "in the zone" in that instance as well.
Originally posted by Master Han
But that's a bit of a self-contradicting argument: simultaneously arguing that Palpatine is a genius manipulator that had the entire fight perfectly planned, and that Palpatine is an arrogant fool who just assumed that Windu wouldn't cut his head off.
I don't think it is. He was a genius manipulator, no doubt. He was a genius manipulator who took risks. He was a genius manipulator who trusted his power of forsight. Unfortunately, on one or two occasions, it was wrong.
This isn't self-contradictory. Lot's of people who keep winning begin to believe themselves to be infallible, then they slip up- and they never see it coming.
Grand Moff: the burden of proof still lies on the person advocating for the Palpatine-act to establish that he had the foresight to magically know that Windu wouldn't just lunge in and cut his head off.
How could he know that?
Again, you're suggesting that Palpatine was not stupid, but rather arrogant in his foresight, suggesting that he foresaw how Windu would act. That would be a degree of Force sense he has never replicated. He wasn't even aware of Skywalker's presence on Endor.
Intrepid: you respond to my primary contention by pointing out that Palpatine could have killed Windu early on in the duel. Firstly, you may or may not be correct, since it appears that Windu was able to deflect his stab, and it's not as if he couldn't have done so earlier. Secondly, it does nothing to address my contention that Windu could have also killed him easily after kicking his saber.
Originally posted by Master Han
Grand Moff: the burden of proof still lies on the person advocating for the Palpatine-act to establish that he had the foresight to magically know that Windu wouldn't just lunge in and cut his head off.How could he know that?
Again, you're suggesting that Palpatine was not stupid, but rather arrogant in his foresight, suggesting that he foresaw how Windu would act. That would be a degree of Force sense he has never replicated. He wasn't even aware of Skywalker's presence on Endor.
Hmm, the point is conceded. You win, this time...
Originally posted by Master Han
Secondly, it does nothing to address my contention that Windu could have also killed him easily after kicking his saber.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Easily? Palpatine is faster (Mace could only see him as a blur)
Until Windu sunk into vaapad.
At that point, there's nothing to suggest that Palpatine was so much faster than Windu, he could overpower him (with what?) in the split second it takes Windu, with his saber drawn, to slash his face.
Also note that the novelization makes it clear that Windu with vaapad is equal to Palpatine.
and his precognition is good enough to sense Maul's and Savage's every move before they even had happened.
Uh...you just described the definition of precognition.
Originally posted by Col. Valerian
He does, but he couldn't. I'm saying we shouldn't make the assumption that because he overpowered the son and the daughter he can take on Sidious, as well.
I'm not claiming he would defeat Sidious anytime he fought him. In fact he would most certainly get Force Tooled 9/10 times.
Remember in the next episodes after he overpowered the Son and Daughter the Son tooled Skywalker on his own a couple of times.
All I'm saying is the fact that he overpowered 2 beings simultaneously each one of which was more powerful than Sidious, then clearly he is capable of defeating Sidious. So to me that episode on it's own retcons the "Only Mace/Yoda" thing.
Originally posted by Master Han
Until Windu sunk into vaapad.At that point, there's [b]nothing
to suggest that Palpatine was so much faster than Windu, he could overpower him (with what?) in the split second it takes Windu, with his saber drawn, to slash his face.Also note that the novelization makes it clear that Windu with vaapad is equal to Palpatine. [/B]
He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced;
-Revenge of the Sith
Originally posted by Master Han
Uh...you just described the definition of precognition.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I'm not claiming he would defeat Sidious anytime he fought him. In fact he would most certainly get Force Tooled 9/10 times.Remember in the next episodes after he overpowered the Son and Daughter the Son tooled Skywalker on his own a couple of times.
All I'm saying is the fact that he overpowered 2 beings simultaneously each one of which was more powerful than Sidious, then clearly he is capable of defeating Sidious. So to me that episode on it's own retcons the "Only Mace/Yoda" thing.
Alright, then... If that was the case, it'd be "Only Mace, Yoda and Anakin."
lulz.
Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really.He bounced off and the Force cleared his head and once again he gave himself to Vaapad.
He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced;
-Revenge of the Sith
You're selectively quoting the novelization. Later on, it details how Windu + vaapad = Palpatine, even suggesting that the battle could have gone on "forever", but that Windu's shatterpoint gave him the advantage.
Yep. So, can you prove that Mace could have ''easily'' kill Palpatine after he disarmed him?
Uh...because he had his lightsaber inches from his face? 😕
Originally posted by Master Han
You're selectively quoting the novelization. Later on, it details how Windu + vaapad = Palpatine, even suggesting that the battle could have gone on "forever", but that Windu's shatterpoint gave him the advantage.
Originally posted by Master Han
Uh...because he had his lightsaber inches from his face? 😕