RotS Anakin vs Satele Shan (Hope trailer)

"The enormous building TC-16 had called a workshop topped two hundred meters in height and was crowned with latticework spires and towers that
evoked strains of eerie music from the steady wind. Arrays of tall skylights
lit the vast interior space, in which thousands of Xi Charrians toiled.
...
Fearing what might result should Anakin call too strongly on the Force -- Obi-Wan had visions of the entire workshop crumbing to pieces!
...
"No mayhem!" Obi-Wan shouted. Anakin showed him a wide-eyed glance
from beneath a three-meter-tall heap of irate Xi Charrians."
He could collapse that building.

No he couldn't.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he couldn't.

Obi-Wan's force vision that pencilcrayon just posted seems to contradict your claim. I'm sure a Jedi Master has better insight as to the capabilities of their former padawan than you do Neph.

Is there any indication that it was an actual vision or was Kenobi just envisioning what would happen on his own through the amazing power of imagination?

Originally posted by Nephthys
Is there any indication that it was an actual vision or was Kenobi just envisioning what would happen on his own through the amazing power of imagination?

Why does it matter? His opinion has a greater weight than yours Neph, as hard as that may be for you to believe.

The opinions of SW characters are relevant only when their views are aligned with Neph's.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Why does it matter? His opinion has a greater weight than yours Neph, as hard as that may be for you to believe.

Yeah? And Galen Marek thinks he can destroy the Jedi Temple with a single Force Push, Maul thinks he can take out the entire Jedi Council by himself, Windu thinks Kenobi's a better duelist than him and numerous people he beats are his superiors and a canon source says Vitiate can dominate anyone in his presence but I'm guessing you don't think we should take those seriously either.

Anakin's never displayed the power to do this, even when he's been pissed off. Besides which, the building is held up with collumns, so Kenobi could merely be worried about damaging them.

Well definitely not the one about Vitiate, which has already been debunked.

Uh-huh.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah? And Galen Marek thinks he can destroy the Jedi Temple with a single Force Push, Maul thinks he can take out the entire Jedi Council by himself, Windu thinks Kenobi's a better duelist than him and numerous people he beats are his superiors and a canon source says Vitiate can dominate anyone in his presence but I'm guessing you don't think we should take those seriously either.

Yeah thanks for throwing these red herrings at me. None of these quotes are remotely like 'Shit Anakin might bring down this building'.
1. Direct quote please. And even so Sith are known to be arrogant in their own self assessments.
2. Sith are known to be arrogant, especially Maul who got bifurcated as a result of it.
3. As you yourself just pointed out that Windu is humble as shit. The opposite of Sith, Jedi are known to be humble in their own self assessments.
4. No limits fallacy.

Anakin's never displayed the power to do this, even when he's been pissed off. Besides which, the building is held up with collumns, so Kenobi could merely be worried about damaging them.

Except Anakin did bring down a massive building in LOE with a force scream. A feat which left Dooku shitting his pants.

Also lol at Anakin not displaying the power. He's the ****ing Chosen One. He's the most powerful being in the mythos. You could argue he hasn't displayed the skill or the focus. But he certainly has the power.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Yeah thanks for throwing these red herrings at me. None of these quotes are remotely like 'Shit Anakin might bring down this building'.
1. Direct quote please. And even so Sith are known to be arrogant in their own self assessments.
2. Sith are known to be arrogant, especially Maul who got bifurcated as a result of it.
3. As you yourself just pointed out that Windu is humble as shit. The opposite of Sith, Jedi are known to be humble in their own self assessments.
4. No limits fallacy.

"As they reached for orbit, he watched the Temple retreat behind him until the outline of its ludicrous grandeur was barely discernible among the surrounding junk hills. He could have knocked the ridiculous toy castle down around Kazdan's ears with one Force push."

For the record (1.26):

YouTube video

It wasn't a self-assessment, it was an assessment of Anakin. Its no more valid as Anakin thinking Obi-Wan's as wise as Master Yoda, and as powerful as Master Windu. Just like Windu wasn't making a self-assessment but was assessing the abilities of other higher than they really are.

The point is that Kenobi's private thoughts amount to ****-all in the way of an actual feat. Anakin did not destroy the building. So he did not destroy the building.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Except Anakin did bring down a massive building in LOE with a force scream. A feat which left Dooku shitting his pants.

Also lol at Anakin not displaying the power. He's the ****ing Chosen One. He's the most powerful being in the mythos. You could argue he hasn't displayed the skill or the focus. But he certainly has the power.

He was extremely angry then and it was only the roof, not comparable. As I said, Obi-Wan could just have been worried about damaging the support.

He can be the ****ing Chosen One all he ****ing wants, he's still not that powerful. Just because he has enormous power dormant inside him doesn't mean he can actually use it. And if he can't use the power, he doesn't have the power. You KNOW he hasn't demonstrated the power to destroy a 200 meter tall building and you KNOW that's what I was talking about. Anakin still gets his ass handed to him by Ventress, Dooku, Opress hell, even Barriss smacks him around at one point, in the Force. I'm seriously not seeing how those guys are a cut above Satele wherein he'll run through her attacks and kill her when he's never demonstrated that power unamped.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Uh, yes it does. Casually blasting through a blast door indicates extremely impressive power. As does the fact that she was already fighting Dark Council level opponents and winning right after doing so and that in the Hope trailer she overpowered Malgus, who is stronger than Anakin in TK.

Anakin crushes a blast door twice in the RotS novel, and destroys a building with a scream in the Labyrinth of Evil. 😉

Bullshit. One comparison does not prove parity. Theres no indication Anakin was moving as fast as Aryn was and she was carrying a passenger. Plus, thats not even a combat ability or situation. Its utterly pointless to bring up in regards to their fighting prowess, in which Aryn is obviously Anakin's superior.

Anakin was in free fall (ITW: AotC) for 600 meters, more than enough time to reach terminal velocity...you can't really fall any faster than that. Not to mention that Aryn was slowing herself down and still gets injured, whilst Anakin hits the airspeeder at full velocity without a scratch.

And it definitely relates to their Force ability, which in turn relates to their combat prowess.

Accept it: the Chosen One >>> a Jedi empath.

Above AOTC Anakin it certainly does. AotC Anakin couldn't throw someone 20 meters with one hand, or block lightning that can blow through a Jedi who collapsed two buildings chest, or block an explosion of TK that can shatter stones with enough force to turn them into shrapnel while blocking Malgus' falling two-handed overhand slash.

I know you think all of these feats are impressive, but Anakin can tank falling into a durasteel airspeeder at terminal velocity, and is already more than capable of ripping bolted machinery. He also traps Dooku with a Force wall in the AotC novelization.

'Millions strive to become Sith, but many too weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war.... there is no more dominating force than that of the Sith Warrior.'

Any who become Sith are expected 'nothing short of perfection.' Theres an entire section on how incredibly hard to actually survive the Sith Academy is. Perfection is not an exaggeration, the acolytes are cut down after a mistake, sent on impossible tasks and those that survive must fight to the death anyway. 'Overseers demand nothing but success.'

What I'm saying is, Sith Warrior are hardcore, ok? Calling them mooks is hilarious.

"hardcore" is a subjective term. Hardly surprising, since you have an obsession with making random accolades in a void and pretending that they mean something. I was using "mook" within context; Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto are both among the greatest swordsmen in the Order's history, yet next to Palpatine, they are indeed "mooks". Do you understand?

Not at all. Scourge managed to penetrate Nyriss' force shield to nudge her out of way enough to save the Exile, and he's not more powerful than her.

Nudging someone who is concentrated on killing someone else =/= overpowering them outright in a 1 vs 1 battle. Otherwise, Yoda would have neutralized Dooku with the Force.

Regardless, Satele beat Malgus with the Force, she can do so to Anakin.

She beats Malgus after implicitly absorbing energy from a lightsaber, then having the aid of her boyfriend's distracting the sith lord, allowing her to visibly charge up and launch a blue Force wave thingy. She has none of these benefits in a 1 vs. 1 duel.

Nope.

See what I did there, just disagreeing with you without any actual argument of reason backing up my opinion? Thats what you sound like. >:[

No, smartass. The canon evidence is that Satele Shan initially resorts to lightsaber combat with Malgus, and only uses her Force powers after absorbing part of his lightsaber and getting aid from Malcom. The burden of proof is on you to argue that her tactics would differ when facing Anakin.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Anakin still gets his ass handed to him by Ventress, Dooku, Opress hell, even [b]Barriss smacks him around at one point, in the Force. [/B]

He defeated Barriss with the Force. He also owned Ventress in a Force choke in the last episode.

Dooku is one of the greatest masters of Force TK in the history of the Jedi, and even he has failed many times to take Skywalker out with the Force.

Opress was chucking him around in Season 3, but Opress's TK is pretty beastly. And it's almost a certainty that Skywalker has grown more powerful since then anyway.

Bottom line- Don't lowball!

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
He defeated Barriss with the Force. He also owned Ventress in a Force choke in the last episode.

Dooku is one of the greatest masters of Force TK in the history of the Jedi, and even he has failed many times to take Skywalker out with the Force.

Opress was chucking him around in Season 3, but Opress's TK is pretty beastly. And it's almost a certainty that Skywalker has grown more powerful since then anyway.

Bottom line- Don't lowball!

Both times when enraged. Barriss hits him with a Force Push at one point before then, proving that you don't need to be one of the greatest masters of TK to get passed Anakin's defenses.

Yeah yeah, both Dooku and Savage are super powerful, but do you not think Satele is as well? Do you not think she's at least comparable?

I'm not lowballing, merely pointing out that people less powerful than Satele Shan have gotten through Anakins defenses and questioning why people are acting like Anakin has such great force defenses when he's never been shown to have them.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Both times when enraged. Barriss hits him with a Force Push at one point before then, proving that you don't need to be one of the greatest masters of TK to get passed Anakin's defenses.

Yeah yeah, both Dooku and Savage are super powerful, but do you not think Satele is as well? Do you not think she's at least comparable?

I'm not lowballing, merely pointing out that people less powerful than Satele Shan have gotten through Anakins defenses and questioning why people are acting like Anakin has such great force defenses when he's never been shown to have them.

Forget being Enraged. Anakin's basically gets angry every time he's fighting (or fighting someone powerful at least).

As for his Force Defenses I don't think anyone's claiming he can't be hit. Or that he'll just stand there and not notice if he is hit. But the fact that these guys are not defeating him like that(at least not easily). He's not Kenobi.

Originally posted by Master Han
Anakin crushes a blast door twice in the RotS novel, and destroys a building with a scream in the Labyrinth of Evil. 😉

No he doesn't, I just checked the book and he does not and rage.

Originally posted by Master Han
Anakin was in free fall (ITW: AotC) for 600 meters, more than enough time to reach terminal velocity...you can't really fall any faster than that. Not to mention that Aryn was [b]slowing herself down and still gets injured, whilst Anakin hits the airspeeder at full velocity without a scratch.

And it definitely relates to their Force ability, which in turn relates to their combat prowess.

Accept it: the Chosen One >>> a Jedi empath.[/b]

According to the AotC novelisation it was 5 stories. 😬 They must have some really big rooms to make that 600 meters. Theres no indication he was moving at terminal velocity, he could have been slowing himself down the whole time, which would be much much easier for him if he wasn't going at terminal velocity like Aryn was. And as I said she was carrying a passenger so she couldn't slow herself down like Anakin did by opening up her whole body.

No it doesn't. It is completely irrelevant and proves nothing. It just shows that Aryn made a tactical error. She can block force hard enough to shatter stone and turn it into shrapnel, she should have been able to block her own impact easily, but instead she tried to show down. Its utterly pointless. Ayn has superior combat feats to Anakin, she would kick his ass.

Originally posted by Master Han
I know you think all of these feats are impressive, but Anakin can tank falling into a durasteel airspeeder at terminal velocity, and is already more than capable of ripping bolted machinery. He also traps Dooku with a Force wall in the AotC novelization.

Tanking a fall isn't nearly as impressive blocking an impact that shattered stone into hail. Malgus himself jumped from 150 feet up and he was unharmed too, and Aryn still managed to block the force of his "terminal-velocity" lightsaber blow + force cocoon.

The machinery thing is average, but still laughable compared to Malgus and Satele.

Anakin doesn't use the Force in his duel with Dooku in the movie so that's non-canon.

Originally posted by Master Han
"hardcore" is a subjective term. Hardly surprising, since you have an obsession with making random accolades in a void and pretending that they mean something. I was using "mook" within context; Agen Kolar and Kit Fisto are both among the greatest swordsmen in the Order's history, yet next to Palpatine, they are indeed "mooks". Do you understand?

I understand, as long as you understand that Sith Warriors are not weaklings by any means, and thus Satele treating them like such shows how good she is.

Originally posted by Master Han
Nudging someone who is concentrated on killing someone else =/= overpowering them outright in a 1 vs 1 battle. Otherwise, Yoda would have neutralized Dooku with the Force.

So you concede that one does not need to be 'quite significantly more powerful than your opponent to outright penetrate a Force shield'? Barriss has overpowered Anakin's Force defenses. I see no reason why Satele would not do the same.

Originally posted by Master Han
She beats Malgus after implicitly absorbing energy from a lightsaber, then having the aid of her boyfriend's distracting the sith lord, allowing her to visibly charge up and launch a blue Force wave thingy. She has none of these benefits in a 1 vs. 1 duel.

She can block Anakin's lightsaber as well if its so important.

She 'visibly charged up' a Force Wave after flattening him against a wall and continually applying force to him. Watch the trailer, the 'charge up' takes under a second:

YouTube video

Originally posted by Master Han
No, smartass. The canon evidence is that Satele Shan initially resorts to lightsaber combat with Malgus, and only uses her Force powers after absorbing part of his lightsaber and getting aid from Malcom. The burden of proof is on [b]you to argue that her tactics would differ when facing Anakin. [/B]

Lol. I don't have to argue what the characters would do. I'm not writing a fanfiction here. I only need to establish what they can do. And Satele can beat Anakin through her Force powers. And for your information, Satele attacks those Sith using the force when she first appears, so theres your proof. She's a Consular, she's more inclined to attack with the Force anyway.

Originally posted by Nephthys
No he doesn't, I just checked the book and he does not and rage.

Hmm. Imma look for it.

According to the AotC novelisation it was 5 stories. 😬 They must have some really big rooms to make that 600 meters. Theres no indication he was moving at terminal velocity,

...um, watch the movie. He clearly fell far more than your definition of five stories.

he could have been slowing himself down the whole time, which would be much much easier for him if he wasn't going at terminal velocity like Aryn was. And as I said she was carrying a passenger so she couldn't slow herself down like Anakin did by opening up her whole body.

But the point is that he wasn't slowing himself down, at least not by any significant figure. And Aryn was slowing herself down, so IDK why you insist that she was going at terminal velocity.

No it doesn't. It is completely irrelevant and proves nothing. It just shows that Aryn made a tactical error. She can block force hard enough to shatter stone and turn it into shrapnel, she should have been able to block her own impact easily, but instead she tried to show down. Its utterly pointless. Ayn has superior combat feats to Anakin, she would kick his ass.

Yeah...no. Her blocking her own impact and her slowing herself down aren't exclusive actions. She would have performed the former if she were capable; she obviously wasn't.

Tanking a fall isn't nearly as impressive blocking an impact that shattered stone into hail. Malgus himself jumped from 150 feet up and he was unharmed too, and Aryn still managed to block the force of his "terminal-velocity" lightsaber blow + force cocoon.

Her knees buckled. 😉 And hitting a perpendicular-moving airspeeder at terminal velocity is more impressive than blocking an impact that can shatter stone.

The machinery thing is average, but still laughable compared to Malgus and Satele.

All you've pointed out are shattering stone...yeah, that's laughable in the reverse.

Anakin doesn't use the Force in his duel with Dooku in the movie so that's non-canon.

How do you know? It's not as if Force walls are visible phenomena.

I understand, as long as you understand that Sith Warriors are not weaklings by any means, and thus Satele treating them like such shows how good she is.

Sure, she's good. Nobody ever denied this. Now stop making useless comments.

So you concede that one does not need to be 'quite significantly more powerful than your opponent to outright penetrate a Force shield'? Barriss has overpowered Anakin's Force defenses. I see no reason why Satele would not do the same.

In context, you suggested that Shan would be capable of overpowering Skywalker's defenses to the point where he would be unable to engage her in lightsaber combat.

She can block Anakin's lightsaber as well if its so important.

In her journals, she admits that had it not been for Malcom's intervention, she probably would have died.

She 'visibly charged up' a Force Wave after flattening him against a wall and continually applying force to him. Watch the trailer, the 'charge up' takes under a second:

YouTube video

Really? And why do you suppose she waits for Malcom to almost-die before pulling it off? Why do you suppose she never led with this? Why do you suppose she admits she's hesitant to fight Magnus again, and that she would not have survived had it not been for Malcom's intervention?

Lol. I don't have to argue what the characters would do.

ROFLAMO, yes, yes you are. This isn't a question of who could win, but who would. That's why tactical acumen matters, and that's why we don't argue that Yoda would defeat Vitiate by using Force lightning.

I'm not writing a fanfiction here. I only need to establish what they can do. And Satele can beat Anakin through her Force powers. And for your information, Satele attacks those Sith using the force when she first appears, so theres your proof. She's a Consular, she's more inclined to attack with the Force anyway.

So because she can ambush two mook sith, she can pull it off against Anakin? 🙄

ROFLAMO is the name of my new punk band, lol. welshy

Band?

The?