Originally posted by The_Tempest
lolWho threatened him? He can't be that unlikeable.
The only thing I threatened him with was my p...ork sausage.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I've got your A1 and/or Worcestershire sauce right here.*grabs crotch*
What about potatoes? I've gotta have my starches too.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The only thing I threatened him with was my p...ork sausage.
I summarized what I have experienced during my debates in various forums. Of-course, many have been civil and amicable but The Ones.
You didn't threaten me; you bailed out like a coward (Grievous).
You need clarity about my wisdom and infinite greatness. Much to learn you still have.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Hand remains on crotch.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Where is my lightsaber?You are speaking in absolutes. You must be....
Oh? So because I don't agree with you you think its okay to rape me with a bright white rod? Too far.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Silly...I summarized what I have experienced during my debates in various forums. Of-course, many have been civil and amicable but The Ones.
You didn't threaten me; you bailed out like a coward (Grievous).
You need clarity about my wisdom and infinite greatness. Much to learn you still have.
I think I may sig this.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Latest updates on Maul reveal that he was a tool and wasn't trained in the ways of the Sith with intention of making him a successor. Star Wars: Darth Plagueis offers useful information in this regard.
This is an irrelevant factoid. Maul was, indeed, a tool - a tool of combat and killing. So he would logically be taught everything needed to do said things. That he didn't know arcane sith sorcery, or how to manipulate galactic politics and cloud the Jedi Order's foresight, has nothing to do with his combat prowess.
This error does much to encapsulate the various fallacies you make in your posts; you love to make assertions that are utterly irrelevant and peripheral to supporting your contentions. When the burden of proof is on you to prove that a certain character is more powerful than another, you cannot simply whip out a quotation describing that character as "skilled" and "respected" without explaining how this compares to the combatant. Similarly, you cannot continue to boast about political skills or knowledge of sith sorcery without explaining how it relates to the actual, tactical and short term engagement.
Just my two cents.
EDIT: for example, you point out that Satele Shan is "prodigiously strong" to suggest that she's greater than Anakin...yet the Chosen One also merits, and has received, such labels. So how does this establish anything for your case?
And, BTW, you're wrong in claiming that Anakin is somehow overly specialized or not well rounded. He has an amazing breadth and depth of technical mastery, having studied the extremely high level jar'kai fighting style, having plenty of experience with Obi Wan's soresu, and being able to employ mock forms and psychological warfare with Dooku. He's no brute.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Oh? So because I don't agree with you you think its okay to rape me with a bright white rod? Too far.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I think I may sig this.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, you do do that Legend.
Originally posted by ?YLLAER
To be fair we all do that, it's just easier to more colorfully add it to your wording when you're communicating in your primary language.I actually think Legend makes a lot of good points and has a good perspective on things. His assessment of Dooku was spot on.
I have seen your recent posts in a thread about Bane and I am impressed by your perspective as well.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDLatest updates on Maul reveal that he was a tool and wasn't trained in the ways of the Sith with intention of making him a successor. Star Wars: Darth Plagueis offers useful information in this regard.
Maul certainly received lot of martial training from Sidious but this was it. In early sources, Maul was hyped as one of the most highly trained Sith in history but this is NOT the case as per latest information.
This isn't true at all. The latest T-Canon evidence suggests Maul was trained in all the ways of the Sith by Sidious to one day be his successor. This idea that Sidious spent all that time just to have a good assassin has been a long time rumor which is now proven completely false by higher canon, and by Lucas himself.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
3. I have pointed out power differentiation of G-canon characters within Episode III: Sidious; Mace; Yoda > Anakin; Dooku; Obi-Wan [B](But you attempted to argue against this as well)[/B]
Of course he's going to argue with that. How can you possibly put Kenobi in the same league as Count Dooku? Have you not seen ROTS? Kenobi has been shown incapable of competing against the Count in G-Canon.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This isn't true at all. The latest T-Canon evidence suggests Maul was trained in all the ways of the Sith by Sidious to one day be his successor. This idea that Sidious spent all that time just to have a good assassin has been a long time rumor which is now proven completely false by higher canon, and by Lucas himself.
Because Sidious is known to lie and deceive as well. And authorities acknowledge this.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Of course he's going to argue with that. How can you possibly put Kenobi in the same league as Count Dooku? Have you not seen ROTS? Kenobi has been shown incapable of competing against the Count in G-Canon.
Yoda; Mace; and Sidious are on a whole new level in comparison to others in G-canon works. EU possibly contests this.
Obi-Wan's victory over Anakin is a legitimate development otherwise Mr. Lucas could choose to depict Obi-Wan downing Anakin with cheating or something. Even in an EU source, it is pointed out that Anakin didn't realize that Obi-Wan packed sufficient strength to handle him.
Anakin could be stronger and better duelist then Obi-Wan but these advantages were nullified by his shortcomings in combat related psychology (Nick's claim) and understanding of the ways of the Force (Evident from his showings).
Dooku was supposed to knock Obi-Wan out from the picture and lure Anakin to the dark side according to the plan. He did the needful but Dooku's actions led to Anakin taking advantage of the situation and end-up with his hands chopped off.
I believe that if Dooku would not have been following any plan, he may have succeeded in making out alive and well from this encounter as well.
But holistically, Dooku, Anakin and Obi-Wan might be peers or at-least the former two with the third one being close.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Can you present the evidence?Because Sidious is known to lie and deceive as well. And authorities acknowledge this.
Which is exactly why his words to Darth Plagueis can not be used as any kind of proof.
The evidence is in the countless interviews with Dave Filoni and Sam Witwer. Dave Filoni said in his force cast end of season 4 interview that Maul is "A very big threat. He's been trained in all the ways of the Sith."
The whole plot about Maul building up an army was to show how he's been trained by Sidious to take over a Galaxy (like a true Sith should). He even says to Sidious in "The Lawless" that he's used Sidious's training to accomplish all that.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
That is just a general ranking. Their can be room for variations in power factor in a league. Every character somewhat varies in the aspect of strengths and weaknesses from each other. But the differentiation factor is evidently clear from Mr. Lucas's depictions and statements.Yoda; Mace; and Sidious are on a whole new level in comparison to others in G-canon works. EU possibly contests this.
Obi-Wan's victory over Anakin is a legitimate development otherwise Mr. Lucas could choose to depict Obi-Wan downing Anakin with cheating or something. Even in an EU source, it is pointed out that Anakin didn't realize that Obi-Wan packed sufficient strength to handle him.
Anakin could be stronger and better duelist then Obi-Wan but these advantages were nullified by his shortcomings in combat related psychology (Nick's claim) and understanding of the ways of the Force (Evident from his showings).
Dooku was supposed to knock Obi-Wan out from the picture and lure Anakin to the dark side according to the plan. He did the needful but Dooku's actions led to Anakin taking advantage of the situation and end-up with his hands chopped off.
I believe that if Dooku would not have been following any plan, he may have succeeded in making out alive and well from this encounter as well.
But holistically, Dooku, Anakin and Obi-Wan might be peers or at-least the former two with the third one being close.
Yeah except according to G-Canon Kenobi was not in Dooku's league. He's just no where near as powerful as him. There's just no getting around that.
I don't know what quote of Gillard's your talking about, but I have a quote from him in the making of ROTS that states Kenobi and Skywalker can't get past each other's defenses because they know each other's moves inside out. The ROTS novel states the same thing. That's the only reason they were equals. Only agianst each other though.
Heck according to G-Canon Dooku and Yoda seem much closer to being peers than Dooku and Obi-Wan. So I have no idea where your getting this "factual" powerscale from.
You just seem to be lowballing not only Skywalker, but also Dooku now as well due to Anakin's loss against Kenobi. Even though Dooku could never possibly lose to Kenobi. Whilst you make all the excuses in the world for Dooku's loss to Skywalker.
The true factual powerscale is more like this:
Yoda=Sidious > Mace Windu =/> Skywalker =/> Dooku >> Kenobi.
It's only Kenobi vs Sith Anakin that doesn't fit into this powerscaling and that is the inconsistency to the above. But like numerous sources have stated Skywalker was mentally unstable and not in the right mind set and him and Kenobi know each otheres moves inside out. That's what makes that fight different.
But there's no excuse at all for Kenobi getting stomped by Dooku. That is simply a power scale thing, with Kenobi fighting out of his league there.
Originally posted by Master Han
Yes, good for her. This doesn't suggest that she could overpower Anakin's Force defenses.
Uh, yes it does. Casually blasting through a blast door indicates extremely impressive power. As does the fact that she was already fighting Dark Council level opponents and winning right after doing so and that in the Hope trailer she overpowered Malgus, who is stronger than Anakin in TK.
Originally posted by Master Han
Yet it happens to be one of the rare instances in the mythos where we can actually compare like, analogous showings. And unless if you can establish that Anakin possesses some sort of disproportionate ability to fall great heights, he is >> Aryn.
Bullshit. One comparison does not prove parity. Theres no indication Anakin was moving as fast as Aryn was and she was carrying a passenger. Plus, thats not even a combat ability or situation. Its utterly pointless to bring up in regards to their fighting prowess, in which Aryn is obviously Anakin's superior.
Originally posted by Master Han
Circular logic about her vs. Malgus aside...nothing here puts her above Anakin.
Above AOTC Anakin it certainly does. AotC Anakin couldn't throw someone 20 meters with one hand, or block lightning that can blow through a Jedi who collapsed two buildings chest, or block an explosion of TK that can shatter stones with enough force to turn them into shrapnel while blocking Malgus' falling two-handed overhand slash.
Originally posted by Master Han
Yeah, but if he can bull through two armed sith with nonchalance...yeah, I don't see how Shan's taking them out should be seen as very impressive.
'Millions strive to become Sith, but many too weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war.... there is no more dominating force than that of the Sith Warrior.'
Any who become Sith are expected 'nothing short of perfection.' Theres an entire section on how incredibly hard to actually survive the Sith Academy is. Perfection is not an exaggeration, the acolytes are cut down after a mistake, sent on impossible tasks and those that survive must fight to the death anyway. 'Overseers demand nothing but success.'
What I'm saying is, Sith Warrior are hardcore, ok? Calling them mooks is hilarious.
Originally posted by Master Han
Anakin himself is no joke when it comes to the Force, though. You have to be quite significantly more powerful than your opponent to outright penetrate a Force shield.
Not at all. Scourge managed to penetrate Nyriss' force shield to nudge her out of way enough to save the Exile, and he's not more powerful than her. Regardless, Satele beat Malgus with the Force, she can do so to Anakin.
Originally posted by Master Han
Then she may try the same tactic here, and therefore die.
Nope.
See what I did there, just disagreeing with you without any actual argument of reason backing up my opinion? Thats what you sound like. >:[
Originally posted by Master Han
OK, but unless if you can establish Maul's power next to Satele's...
Why, Obi-Wan and Maul aren't in this thread? I was merely using an example, unrelated to the actual topic.