Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Following are the contradictions:-1. As per the feat you cited, Anakin is stronger then Yoda
2. As per the feat you cited, Anakin should have humiliated Obi-Wan with his Force abilities but this didn't happen.
No he isn't because Yoda casually smashed two three hundred meter wide transports together in TCWs cartoon. And because Yoda matched the most powerful Dark Lord in history blow for blow in ROTS.
Anakin is confirmed to be above Kenobi in sabers and the force, and yet he lost. Why? Because of his mental state. This has already been addressed to death.
Therefore, I feel inclined to regard this feat as an example of WIS or AIS because it is not coherent with the holistic picture of Anakin's abilities in the mythos.
Wut?
I would appreciate a link.
You can google the url. I'm far too lazy to go find it.
As per G-canon ground realities, this is true. Mr. Lucas have explicitly stated that he doesn't represents EU; he represents his works/vision, and as per his vision, Anakin is certainly at the height of his power as of RoTS.
Will you stop spewing the forums with this ground reality crap that you just pulled out of your dark gaping oraphis of an anus.
This is G-canon based ranking of characters:-TOP TIER: Sidious; Yoda; Mace
[B]Hint 1: "You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor"
Hint 2: Yoda made it clear that Obi-Wan was no match for Sidious but he stood a chance against Anakin in Episode III.
Hint 3: Episode II and III established that Yoda and Mace outclassed Dooku.
Therefore, we are left with this:-
HIGH TIER: Dooku; Anakin; Obi-Wan; Maul
You made that up. Anakin is ranked to be a tier 9 duelist when he is DS. He's top tier. So is Dooku considering he is stated multiple times to be on par with Mace.
No EU doesn't drift from the movies in that regard, because they can't. Lucas' word is law as far as canon goes. Anakin never surpassed Yoda or Sidious, but he was getting mighty close.
End result of these inconsistent depictions is poor and confusing character development of Vader with respect to his power progression arc. In some aspects, Anakin seems to be unstoppable juggernaut; and then in some aspects, Anakin seems to have realistic limitations.So how should we use Anakin in debates? Consider his best depictions only and ignore all other stuff?
Yes. It's called a low end showing. Anakin's high end showings outweigh his shit ones. For example Anakin defeated Dooku but had a hard time with Barriss. That doesn't suggest that Barriss can even hold a candle to Dooku.
If we start thinking on the lines of PIS and CIS then lot of stuff in Star Wars can be effortlessly scrutinized.Analogy: When Anakin fought Obi-Wan, the former was damn serious about killing the latter. In this scenario;
Q1. Anakin wouldn't do his best to overcome his opponent?
Q2. Why would Anakin deliberately prolong the duel?---
No.
And he didn't he was struggling emotionally with the prospect of murdering his father figure after just choking his pregnant wife. Oh right and his wife just called him out on murdering children.
As per your logic, which source should we accuse of PIS? G-canon Episode II or C-canon CW Cartoons?
It's not PIS if there are technological limitations involved.
Due to these issues, I originally stressed in this debate that a fair comparison between Satele and Anakin is not possible since Anakin benefits from WIS or AIS in low budget mediums but Satele haven't been explored in such mediums. However, a comparison is possible between these two characters in some mediums, and as per revelations in these mediums, Satele is superior to Anakin.
Except if tomorrow Lucasarts released a codex entry that said Satele Shan ripped down an Imperial dreadnaught you wouldn't be like. 'Oh well that isn't in line with her showings in the game.' You'd be making Satele Shan vs. Yoda threads this very moment. Don't piss on my head and tell me its raining.
It can be argued that Satele have relatively superior understanding of the ways of the Force then Anakin and this is why she can use her Force abilities more effectively than Anakin and therefore have advantage over him. Anakin is also capable of performing impressive actions with his Force abilities but he is not able to channel his Force abilities as effortlessly on average as Satele can (a shortcoming in his understanding of the ways of the Force) and is therefore disadvantaged.Fair enough?
You aren't even trying to give ground.
Actually Satele isn't among my favorite characters in the mythos. I just pointed out the fact that we all are biased to certain level. Therefore, it is wrong for you to single me out in this aspect. I did not accuse you of being biased in this debate but you unfortunately resorted to this tactic to attack my choice to debate in favor of Satele in this hypothetical duel. Just focus on reaching a middle ground instead of attacking my choices.
Yes she is. She's in the SWTOR era, which is enough for you to wank her from here to kingdom come. The fact that you would sit here and debate that Satele Shan has better TK feats and saber off of the Hope video is ludicrous.
Since when did I qualify for "sweetheart" category? 😕 😛
It's the way you fight me when you so clearly want to consen...I mean concede.
Thanks for using humor by the way! You lighten up the mood. 🙂
I create the mood for us to consummate our debate with furious sodomy.
Vader certainly have his share of impressive feats but Galen set the bar very high by influencing the movement of an Imperial Destroyer.
Which is impressive. And something that has been hinted at since Yoda first said 'size matters not'.
I am not sure about this but he is a match for cybernetic Vader at least.
Yes he is.
You think that cybernetic Vader is superior duelist then Dooku?In natural form, Anakin became superior duelist then Dooku; but in cybernetic form, I am not sure.
No, Dooku would, in raw sabers at least ravage Vader with his superior speed.
Do you have actual information about this?This Jet rivals is comparable in size:-
Its weight is 5,293 kg (when empty).
A 747-400 has a 124 ton capacity compared to a weight of 487 tons.
A Lambda-class shuttle which is of comparable size has a cargo capacity of 80 tons. Using the same proportion of weight-cargo capacity a lambda class shuttle would weigh approximately 314 tons. But hey, let's say advanced tech makes a vessel half the size be able to carry that weight. That's still ~150 tons.
I disagree! Malgus is not just a relatively more overwhelming brute but Sidious personally acknowledged him as one of his strongest predecessors. Anakin may have some great feats but he seemingly lacks in channeling his Force abilities as effectively as these individuals can.
Underestimation of Skywalker at its finest.
Issue is that we do not have evidence of Anakin being able to channel such level of power in the form of a Force push. In contrast, we have evidence of Satele being able to channel great power in to her Force push.With close inspection, it seems that the feat which you cited indicates that Anakin influenced the movement of a large flying object with his Force abilities in the same fashion as Galen did with an Imperial Destroyer which is considerably bigger then this large flying object. Comparatively, Galen's feat is vastly superior. Still, we haven't seen both Anakin and Galen being able to channel such level of power in their Force push during combat situations.
No it isn't. Because the Star Destroyer was already falling, Galen merely redirected it. Skywalker moved a stable platform over in the course of a few seconds. Galen took minutes to redirect the destroyer.
So are you willing to accept that Galen shits on Anakin (RoTS)?
No. Galen will lose to Anakin.
I am no expert on the mysteries of the Force but I advice caution in regard to this subject.I posted what I could find from existing sources.
Her talents are remarkable by Star Wars standards.
Not really remarkable, they are good but remarkable is a broad term.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He must have won some fights too since he was the most experienced Jedi of the Order in his time and possibly in history. If Din lost to some then this indicates how good these individuals are and not that he sucks. He tutored HoT which should mean something.
Lol one of the options for the HoT when you get Orgus Din as a master is basically 'Uhh can I get Satele instead'
But the ERA is the same.
I suppose. I consider the Cold War era different than the Second Great War era because there are years and years in between.
As per ground realities of G-canon, Anakin is not in the league of Yoda, Mace and Sidious and yet he have relatively more impressive showing under his belt. This is the end result of disrespecting continuity; this results in misrepresentation and confusion.
Wrong. Anakin is approaching that level by ROTS. Mace Windu hates Anakin and yet admits that one could make the argument that Anakin is stronger than not only himself, but Yoda.
Originally posted by ares834
Then we have Starkiller giving Sidious a good fight
que?
If you take that fight literally, Starkiller didn't just give a good one, he flat-out beat the Emperor.
But we both know Sidious was pulling his punches in a major way.
Originally posted by ares834
and manage to contain Sidious's lightning for longer than Yoda did.
I would submit to you that, given the Emperor's dissatisfaction with Marek's death, he might not have been trying to kill Starkiller with the lightning, merely keeping him at bay.
After all, his initial target was Kota, not Starkiller.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No it isn't. Because the Star Destroyer was already falling, Galen merely redirected it. Skywalker moved a stable platform over in the course of a few seconds. Galen took minutes to redirect the destroyer.
Lolwut?
BTW, I can also point out that the platform was being held up by repulserlift, meaning all Skywalker had to do is tip it a bit.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
que?If you take that fight literally, Starkiller didn't just give a good one, he flat-out beat the Emperor.
But we both know Sidious was pulling his punches in a major way.
I'm talking about after that.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
I would submit to you that, given the Emperor's dissatisfaction with Marek's death, he might not have been trying to kill Starkiller with the lightning, merely keeping him at bay.After all, his initial target was Kota, not Starkiller.
So why would he pull his punches if he was trying to kill Kota?
Anyway, here is an excerpt from the novel.
"Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain."
Certainly does not seem like he is holding back here.
Originally posted by ares834
So why would he pull his punches if he was trying to kill Kota?
No, I'm sure he tried to kill Kota. But then Starkiller literally got in the way.
Originally posted by ares834
"Another staggering, painful step and the Emperor was within the apprentice's reach. With shaking fingers, he took the old man's bony shoulders in his hands and gripped them tight. The Sith lightning spread to engulf the two of them, fueled by [b]both their desperations. The Emperor tipped back his head and howled in lascivious pain. Darkness threatened to envelop the apprentice's mind, but he clutched to consciousness with feverish will. He had to see this through. He had to."Certainly does not seem like he is holding back here. [/B]
To be fair, that passage is from Galen's perspective.
Originally posted by Master Han
Uh, no? Gravity or no, it still has inertia.
Why go out of his way to tip it if it played no part? Thats added effort if all he's doing is moving it to the side. Clearly imo he's tipping it and using the repulsers to move it. You can even see some energy coming out of the bottom.
Originally posted by ares834
😬Starkiller would wreck Anakin dude. And no, that feat is not nearly as impressive as Starkiller's SD feat. Not to mention, Starkiller has other feats that are as impressive as the SD feat.
You misinterpret. I am saying that the feats are different. Not that Skywalkers is more impressive (it isn't but this is also Anakin far from his peak).
As for Sidious vs. Starkiller, the official stance is that Starkiller was no match for Sidious. Sidious is also known for trolling people into thinking he's defenses so they 'give into the dark side.' And the most damning evidence of all in my opinion even though it is a what if scenario. In the Dark Side ending of the Force Unleashed (which is what I view to be the developers view of what would have happened if Starkiller killed Vader) Palpatine completely stomps Starkiller within moments when he gets serious.
Originally posted by ares834
How does it contradict the Official site? Link please.
Databank. Which now doesn't exist. Although considering the official site now links you to the starwars wiki...I don't know. All that information is lost now.
Anyway, it does contradict the game. Just like the initial Palaptine/Starkiller confrontation which has Starkiller trashing Palpatine in a duel. With that said the game does not contradict the notion that Sidious was desperate.
Yes it does. Palpatine was holding back. If you really think Sidious wasn't toying with Starkiller you are kidding yourself.