Originally posted by DarkSaint85
He merely held them apart until they crumbled.http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111224664/4469367-1399570914-28801.jpg
In Marvel, and I think DC as well, universes are represented by not only the term "worlds,"
but in almost every single case where two universeS are either merging or being separated,
the two realities will always be visualized as two planets.
... just sayin.
So, I haven't read that particular arc, but from that scan alone I would say he held two universes apart.
Until further details changes my perspective.
People are ignoring the time Cap used the IG to push back the incurring universe. He did it via pushing the alternate Earth:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/JA5sp.jpg
Reed says, "The Earth is like an island breaking the surface of the ocean. He's literally pushing an entire universe hidden from us...and it's working!"
Notice the Earth didn't crumble in this scene, despite being the focal point of a force strong enough to push a universe.
The tank and balloon analogy/stick and car analogy fall apart when you realize the Universe is 99.999999% empty space. There's nothing behind the alternate Earth but empty space. The analogy treats Earth like it's a separate object from the incurring universe e.g., a balloon/stick (Earth) pushed against a tank/car (Universe). What this analogy fails to realize is that the Earth is part of the incurring universe.
Hence why Hickman's used the analogy of the Earth being an island breaking the surface and an ocean. When you're pushing the island (i.e., Earth), you're also pushing the planet (i.e., universe) because it's part of the planet.
Originally posted by Mr Master
I haven't read that story, but, how/why did the two universeS explode duo to the two planets?In Marvel, and I think DC as well, universes are represented by not only the term "worlds,"
but in almost every single case where two universeS are either merging or being separated,
the two realities will always be visualized as two planets.... just sayin.
So, I haven't read that particular arc, but from that scan alone I would say he held two universes apart.
Until further details changes my perspective.
They crashed into each other.
Originally posted by One-Punch
People are ignoring the time Cap used the IG to push back the incurring universe. He did it via pushing the alternate Earth:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/JA5sp.jpgReed says, "The Earth is like an island breaking the surface of the ocean. He's literally pushing an entire universe hidden from us...and it's working!"
Notice the Earth didn't crumble in this scene, despite being the focal point of a force strong enough to push a universe.
The tank and balloon analogy/stick and car analogy fall apart when you realize the Universe is 99.999999% empty space. There's nothing behind the alternate Earth but empty space. The analogy treats Earth like it's a separate object from the incurring universe e.g., a balloon/stick (Earth) pushed against a tank/car (Universe). What this analogy fails to realize is that [b]the Earth is part of the incurring universe
.Hence why Hickman's used the analogy of the Earth being an island breaking the surface and an ocean. When you're pushing the island (i.e., Earth), you're also pushing the planet (i.e., universe) because it's part of the planet. [/B]
Well, when you have a gauntlet capable of rewriting reality.....laws of physics etc tend to break down.
Originally posted by 80sBabyWell, you see, that's the problem. When your stating things like "Earth is durable enough to sustain the entire universe", you're as far away from reason as you can possibly be.
I'd say this is true, within reason.
This is a clear-cut scene - you have absolutely no reason to believe Hyperion held the weight of two entire universes, when that:
a). rests on the assumption that the Earth can sustain the weight of the entire universe, which is stupendously stupid - and gives me the freedom to say, like I said above, that since basic rules don't apply like weight/pressure, then Hyperion's feat might aswell be him lifting two cars
b). the assumption it rests on is directly contradicted by the fact that the Earth did, in fact, break from the pressure.
The fact that you have to validate your position not with logic or actual comic evidence (both of them contradict you), but with ridiculous positions and "hey it's comics, everything goes", says it all.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Well, when you have a gauntlet capable of rewriting reality.....laws of physics etc tend to break down. [/B]
Hickman's IGs could only function in their native universe, and not in the incurring universes. Otherwise Cap would of wished away the incursion.
The best he could do (and really the only thing he could do) was try and push back the incurring universe, which is what he attempted.
Originally posted by One-PunchCaptain America was using the omnipotent Infinity Gauntlet. That's vastly different than using physical force - in which case, holding the Earth in one piece while pushing it away would be no problem.
People are ignoring the time Cap used the IG to push back the incurring universe. He did it via pushing the alternate Earth:
http://i.stack.imgur.com/JA5sp.jpgReed says, "The Earth is like an island breaking the surface of the ocean. He's literally pushing an entire universe hidden from us...and it's working!"
Notice the Earth didn't crumble in this scene, despite being the focal point of a force strong enough to push a universe.
Or do you think it's a coincidence that in Hyperion's case the Earth did break, and in Captain America's case it did not?
^ I can't quote you for some reason.
See my response to Darksaint regarding IG functionality in only native universes.
Note that Reed says Cap is... "LITERALLY pushing an entire universe" by pushing the alternate Earth.
He used the word literally because that's what cap was doing in the scene. He wasn't wishing away the incursion or re-writing reality. He simply tried pushing it away.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/JA5sp.jpg
Also like I said before, your analogies treat the alternate Earth as a separate object from the incurring universe. As if the alternate Earth is being pushed against a universe or something.
But they're not separate entities. The alternate Earth IS part of the incurring universe.
Originally posted by One-PunchYes, he is pushing it away. And he's doing it without it crumbling, since he's using the Infinity Gauntlet. When Hyperion tried to keep them apart, he failed, since he didn't have the benefit of wielding the Infinity Gauntlet.
^ I can't quote you for some reason.See my response to Darksaint regarding IG functionality in only native universes.
Note that Reed says Cap is... "[b]LITERALLY
pushing an entire universe" by pushing the alternate Earth.He used the word literally because that's what cap was doing in the scene. He wasn't wishing away the incursion or re-writing reality. He simply tried pushing it away.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/JA5sp.jpg
Also like I said before, your analogies treat the alternate Earth as a separate object from the incurring universe. As if the alternate Earth is being pushed against a universe or something.
But they're not separate entities. The alternate Earth IS part of the incurring universe. [/B]
Like I said, it's no coincidence that the Earth shattered when Hyperion tried it with physical force, and it didn't when Cap wielded the Infinity Gauntlet.
I never said Earth is separate from the Universe he belongs to, how absurd is that? The fact that Earth still had to endure the pressure of the universes is still valid - in order for Hyperion to palm the Universes to a stop, his palms had to have exerted more force than the Earths could withstand, destroying them. Which they were.
If it makes you feel better, imagine trying to stop two people from butting heads by separating their nose.
Better?
Well, you see, that's the problem. When your stating things like "Earth is durable enough to sustain the entire universe", you're as far away from reason as you can possibly be. This is a clear-cut scene - you have absolutely no reason to believe Hyperion held the weight of two entire universes, when that: a). rests on the assumption that the Earth can sustain the weight of the entire universe, which is stupendously stupid - and gives me the freedom to say, like I said above, that since basic rules don't apply like weight/pressure, then Hyperion's feat might aswell be him lifting two cars b). the assumption it rests on is directly contradicted by the fact that the Earth did, in fact, break from the pressure. The fact that you have to validate your position not with logic or actual comic evidence (both of them contradict you), but with ridiculous positions and "hey it's comics, everything goes", says it all.
Well, One Punch man has already explained it. Going by what Reed said, as well as Hickman himself, I feel it's safe to assume Hype did hold off 2 universes. You're free to disagree, of course and I can understand your reasoning.
Originally posted by One-Punch
Hickman's IGs could only function in their native universe, and not in the incurring universes. Otherwise Cap would of wished away the incursion.The best he could do (and really the only thing he could do) was try and push back the incurring universe, which is what he attempted.
My take on it is that the IGs will do everything in their power to make your wish a a reality.
Wish for omniscience? Sure. Your brain won't explode from holding all that info, though.
Wish for incredible super strength? Sure, at the same time, your body won't explode from the stresses placed on it, neither would your body run out of calories and kill you.
If you wish for something to happen, it will try to make it so. All corresponding factors will also occur, in order to make your wish a reality. Wish to push a universe away (without losing your pushing point)? It will happen.
Originally posted by 80sBabyOk.
Well, One Punch man has already explained it. Going by what Reed said, as well as Hickman himself, I feel it's safe to assume Hype did hold off 2 universes. You're free to disagree, of course and I can understand your reasoning.
It's not direct at you - but I feel it's too obvious that position is not valid, and that people hold on to it simply out of spite.
I mean, it's not enough that Hyperion has strength to hold two Earths and survive universes collapsing? That's greater than most anything that happened in Marvel or DC at herald level.
I feel the analogy above, with trying to separate people by pressing on their nose [Earths] is the simplest way I can explain it.
If you do it by pressure [Hyperion], they crumble/break.
If you do it with an omnipotent weapon [IG], they don't.
Quite simple.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My take on it is that the IGs will do everything in their power to make your wish a a reality.Wish for omniscience? Sure. Your brain won't explode from holding all that info, though.
Wish for incredible super strength? Sure, at the same time, your body won't explode from the stresses placed on it, neither would your body run out of calories and kill you.
If you wish for something to happen, it will try to make it so. All corresponding factors will also occur, in order to make your wish a reality. Wish to push a universe away (without losing your pushing point)? It will happen.
A wise wasn't made. The Universe was pushed back by the IG.
"Hyperion held them apart" until the world broke.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14972905/Avengers_004-Zone-013.jpg.html
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
When I said wish, I meant it's synonym, desire, if it helps.Cap desired for the universe to be pushed away. The IG tried to do that for him. And then broke.
The force is what broke them but it bad nothing to do with what you are/were saying. Cap PUSHED THE Universe back.
Ok. It's not direct at you - but I feel it's too obvious that position is not valid, and that people hold on to it simply out of spite. I mean, it's not enough that Hyperion has strength to hold two Earths and survive universes collapsing? That's greater than most anything that happened in Marvel or DC at herald level. I feel the analogy above, with trying to separate people by pressing on their nose [Earths] is the simplest way I can explain it. If you do it by pressure [Hyperion], they crumble/break. If you do it with an omnipotent weapon [IG], they don't. Quite simple.
Yeah some posters do go "all in" trying to prove their point on something so ambiguous/nebulous. especially when it really doesn't matter. as you said, holding apart 2 planets and surviving universal destruction are damn good feats by themselves.
I also can see the point you and DarkSaint are proposing in regards to the IG understanding the wielder's subconscious desire and making it happen.
