Originally posted by DarkSaint85
My take on it is that the IGs will do everything in their power to make your wish a a reality.Wish for omniscience? Sure. Your brain won't explode from holding all that info, though.
Wish for incredible super strength? Sure, at the same time, your body won't explode from the stresses placed on it, neither would your body run out of calories and kill you.
If you wish for something to happen, it will try to make it so. All corresponding factors will also occur, in order to make your wish a reality. Wish to push a universe away (without losing your pushing point)? It will happen.
So he pushed the earth and the universe which was hidden because of the other earth plus the vastness of space.
Originally posted by JBL
Don't know about DS but Leo is a undercover superman fan. Lol. He shows up when someone says something against superman, so does iceman.
I questioned Superman's crossing the galaxy in 60 days feat. Abhi and I had good times. Also did the same with the Elite vs Surfer. And Fernus vs Sentry. All good times.
Originally posted by carver9
You're not making sense though. Here Cap use the Gauntlet and hit Earth with it...If your theory was true, even with Captain pushing Earth back with the Gauntlet, the Universe would've kept moving forward but thats not what happened is it Leo. Cap used the Gauntlet and the power did push Earth back but guess what else it pushed back Leo, the Universe right along with it. To the point that the Gauntlet broke.
Now if your theory was true (and it's not), Earth would've been pushed back but the Universe would've still kept being pushed forward but Cap hitting Earth with the Gauntlet caused the Earth AND the universe to be pushed back. Also Stilt, Hulk stomps all.
wtf? 🤨
conflating the power of the IG with a physical feat is asinine carver. even you should be able to see that. that is one of the most ridiculous points that has been raised by others in this thread. steve himself didn't even know what happened after his attempt to push it away. the sky snapped and the IG broke.
anyway, if your ultimate proof is that the IG did the same thing, this is pointless. if you can't figure out that the IG is more than physical force (it was a BEAM OF ENERGY ffs... lol) well, okey-dokey. that STILL doesn't change the fact though, that even IF the earth=the universe, all he held apart was A FORCE EQUIVALENT TO WHAT THE PLANETS THEMSELVES CAN WITHSTAND.
it says WORLDS--repeatedly, on panel--in that hype scan. we know all he needs to do is keep the PLANETS from touching. and we know beyond doubt that the IG is sooooo much more than physical force. but hey, if you wanna believe hype (who is not as strong as hulk, and hence your agenda stands revealed lol) can hold back 2 universes, good on ya. it really is ridiculous though. imo anyway. 👆
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sure it did. Pretty sure Starbrand and Nightmask referenced that battle in their series.
To kill a beyonder it only needs to be a planetary attack. The power levels were all over the map in that story. Later in the same book he said if he exploded in that manner again it would destroy earth
Originally posted by leonidas
the movements of the universes. you're cheering right now, yes? 😂but that in no way at all means he held universes apart. you're assuming the universes are like pins and the earths are the pointy tips of the pins. holding the tips apart=holding apart both universes. but why in god's name would anyone assume the earths are at the "head" of the entire universe?? lol
all we know for certain is that if the EARTHS touch, each universe is destroyed. show me a scan that says he held TWO UNIVERSES apart. i'm not abhi. 👆
your point is TERRIBLY hindered by a second fact--reed points out that if one of the earths is destroyed, BOTH UNIVERSES ARE SAFE. iow, both universes just keep on passing by. again, all that is necessary is to keep the PLANETS apart and the universes go about their normal business.
there is obviously some external force on the planets but the planets themselves can only stand the forces that the planets themselves can withstand. once they exceed that limit, they break. [b]that means he could ONLY have held apart the planets with a force equal to whatever the planets themselves could withstand.
how much force can a planet withstand before it shatters? i dunno. if 2 planets in OUR universe collided, both would be shattered, and that sure as hell is a lot less force than the inertial force of a universe.....like i said, it's a cool feat. but he is not holding 2 universes apart. [/B]
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Sure it did. Pretty sure Starbrand and Nightmask referenced that battle in their series.
Secret Wars basically hit the reset button since before the very first incursion occurred. Hence nobody actually died.
Including Starbrand.
Reed specifically refers to using the gauntlet to "push the other Earth", with the latter insertion of "the other universe" as an "i.e." statement to explain that pushing the other Earth away equates to pushing the other universe away.
The fact that Reed makes the statement of pushing the Earth first make pushing the Earth the primary action with pushing the Universe a secondary result. Otherwise, he would have said "push the other universe--the other Earth--away. The collision between the Earths is the focus which is why destroying one Earth is an alternate solution and not destroying one universe. In much the same way, pushing the Earth away is the immediate priority and if an entire universe is pushed away in the process, then so be it.
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
I was under the impression that the two earth's blew up along with both universes because time simply ran out.
is there a reason you thought this? are you in the "held universes" camp, or held "held planets" camp? 😂
i can sort of see why people say universes. the IG scans do more to help that case than the hyperion scans imo, but like i said it makes no sense to me, and comparing an IG feat with a physical feat makes using the IG scans....problematic. least imo. oh, and the universe campers also have carver on their side--that alone is enough reason to switch allegiances. 😄
Originally posted by leonidas
is there a reason you thought this? are you in the "held universes" camp, or held "held planets" camp? 😂i can sort of see why people say universes. the IG scans do more to help that case than the hyperion scans imo, but like i said it makes no sense to me, and comparing an IG feat with a physical feat makes using the IG scans....problematic. least imo. oh, and the universe campers also have carver on their side--that alone is enough reason to switch allegiances. 😄
Yep. It makes no sense, because I can actually understand parts of both sides. Well at least the logical portions.
I just think Hickman's set of rules appeal to the universe side of things. Like if the earth's crumbled under the force Hype and the universe were exerting (which really should make sense 😛), why didn't both universes survive at that point. Given Hickman's laws, they should have. But we know they didn't meaning Hype held them and any respective forces pushing them (doesn't make sense logically speaking 😛) long enough for time to run out, ultimately destroying both universes.
It's a clusterphukk believe me.
I believe he tried in vain against forces able to attract and annihilate 2 universes. Whatever that is it's not the same as two planets hitting each other because it's not based on gravity's attractive force but something entirely different. Hyperion caught a planetary body going like 500,000 miles per hour or something crazy and made it go full stop so it's not a speed thing either, we've even seen how slow the process was in Secret wars#1
Originally posted by celeyhyga17
Carvster's side only because he's a good guy. 😛Yep. It makes no sense, because I can actually understand parts of both sides. Well at least the logical portions.
I just think Hickman's set of rules appeal to the universe side of things. Like if the earth's crumbled under the force Hype and the universe were exerting (which really should make sense 😛), why didn't both universes survive at that point. Given Hickman's laws, they should have. But we know they didn't meaning Hype held them and any respective forces pushing them (doesn't make sense logically speaking 😛) long enough for time to run out, ultimately destroying both universes.It's a clusterphukk believe me.
oh, ok. i thought there was some scan that said time ran out. like i said earlier, i think he managed to buy some time, just not much. i think it was pretty clearly explained though why the universes blew up--when the earths blew up, the energy from the explosions mingled. at that point the incursion terminated. to me i assumed that while the matter from each universe may or may not have mingled (2 earths DID explode, surely some parts touched....) but their energies certainly did. it was always about the universes coming into contact that was the danger. the only possible contact point was the earths. as soon as any part of one, contacted a part of the other....BOOM.
i agree it IS a clusterphukc. 👆 looking back at the scan though, i just saw a couple interesting things that haven'tsbeen brought up:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14972905/Avengers_004-Zone-013.jpg.html
(1) look closely at the scan--where exactly is hyperion holding....anything apart? :confusion: all we see is him in the incursion space, screaming. he isn't in contact with...anything. so how exactly DID he keep them apart? anyone from carver's camp is free to answer.....
(2) the breaking of the earths was NOT the issue. the energy wave that results from their breaking is what destroyed the universes. that shows, again (imo) that the earth is divorced of a direct connection with the universe itself.
but seriously, we don't actually SEE hype doing anything. that's...weird. 😑
Originally posted by psycho gundam
I believe he tried in vain against forces able to attract and annihilate 2 universes. Whatever that is it's not the same as two planets hitting each other because it's not based on gravity's attractive force but something entirely different. Hyperion caught a planetary body going like 500,000 miles per hour or something crazy and made it go full stop so it's not a speed thing either, we've even seen how slow the process was in Secret wars#1
i think the idea of the incursions was that the universes were randomly colliding with neighbors as a result of the initial contraction. but i agree with part of what you said--we don't know what kind of force was driving the earths together. we can't know how fast they were traveling toward each other either, but they seemed to be moving very slowly.... regardless though, do you agree they could only have held up under the pressure each earth would have been able to withstand?
that would have been.....a LOT of pressure. the feat is crazy. but clearly a planet could not have withstand being compressed by the full inertia of a universe...right?
